What Am I Missing? - Israel and Hamas (Palestinians)

[DeusExMachina]

there is a lot of antisemitism that is prevalent at the occupy wal street protests, that has been edited out by the media.

because a lot of the people who are there are very liberal. and generally liberal people are pro palestine rather than israel.

both sides have done good and bad things, but if I had to pick one I'd pick israel.

oh, and what deusex said is absolutely true.

if the revolutionary war had been lost the founding fathers would have been hung as traitors.

if you disagree, then say you disagree. don't have a damn tantrum about it.

Thank you. If the word terrorist had been invented, you bet your ass the British would have called the founding fathers terrorists.

History is written by the victors. That's another statement some people might have issue with.

There is a difference between murder and killing. Killing an enemy in time of war who would otherwise kill you is not murder, killing an innocent person regardless of circumstances is murder. To some extent I guess you could say that the above example relies on perspective, but the perspective should be a function of what is right or wrong determined by natural law, not the other way around.

Al Qaeda can believe whatever they want to believe, but that doesn't make it right just because they believe it. If right and wrong are determined by perspective, than anything can be justified.

So murder is bad, but killing is good?

To the guy you're killing, you're murdering him. Saying his perspective isn't valid sounds kind of evil and selfish. As if you're the only person in the universe.

Because they believe it makes it right to them. Thus, perspective.

And yes, anything can be justified. Usually the justification comes from 1) the winner, or 2) the one who's the most convincing.

[Sharpienads]

Have you ever read Unintended Consequences?

No.

[DeusExMachina]

I should have said "to purposefully kill an innocent person regardless of circumstances in murder".

Well, now we're getting into legal definitions which isn't really going to go anywhere. I get what you're saying, but sadly the world isn't so simple.

Sometimes, I consider what if real life was like a comic book or a movie. Where some person or group are evil because they want to be evil, and do evil things. It would make things a lot easier. I feel like this ended after WW2, but then I think it's only because we are taught our perspective and don't know the Axis' perspective on things. Concentration camps and mass-murdering certainly make it easier to pick out the bad guy, but what about Japan? Sure, they attacked us, but were they truly evil? I'm just rambling..something something up too late trying to fix my phone something.

[Sharpienads]

So murder is bad, but killing is good?

To the guy you're killing, you're murdering him. Saying his perspective isn't valid sounds kind of evil and selfish. As if you're the only person in the universe.

Because they believe it makes it right to them. Thus, perspective.

And yes, anything can be justified. Usually the justification comes from 1) the winner, or 2) the one who's the most convincing.

Ok, let's try this. Explain to me a situation in which raping a woman is not wrong.

[DeusExMachina]

Ok, let's try this. Explain to me a situation in which raping a woman is not wrong.

To me? No, never. It is always wrong. Well, unless it's her fantasy but I guess that's not really rape.

To some guy in Africa, who wants his tribe's legacy to continue on? Absolutely right to him. But you could argue he doesn't have a concept of "right" and "wrong", or rather, his concepts of right and wrong are totally different to ours.

[Irving]

No.

Well, I'd like to hear your perspective on the book. Run out and get a copy (it's out of print), read it, and let me know what you think. I'll check back this time tomorrow.



Seriously though, if you come across a copy, I have an electronic copy I'll email to you, I'd like to know what you think about it.

[Sharpienads]

To me? No, never. It is always wrong. Well, unless it's her fantasy but I guess that's not really rape.

To some guy in Africa, who wants his tribe's legacy to continue on? Absolutely right to him. But you could argue he doesn't have a concept of "right" and "wrong", or rather, his concepts of right and wrong are totally different to ours.

Well it would seem we're at an impasse here. I believe that rape is wrong no matter who you are or where you're at. While you might not agree with it, you believe that it can be justified.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Sharpienads]

Well, I'd like to hear your perspective on the book. Run out and get a copy (it's out of print), read it, and let me know what you think. I'll check back this time tomorrow.



Seriously though, if you come across a copy, I have an electronic copy I'll email to you, I'd like to know what you think about it.

Ok I'll check it out. I have a couple of classes that I'll be finished with next week and will start reading it after they're finished.

[DeusExMachina]

Well it would seem we're at an impasse here. I believe that rape is wrong no matter who you are or where you're at. While you might not agree with it, you believe that it can be justified.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

To be clear, I'm not saying I can justify it, I'm just saying that it can be justified by someone.

[Sharpienads]

To be clear, I'm not saying I can justify it, I'm just saying that it can be justified by someone.

Yeah I got it. Now about those pre-teen transgenders....

Just joking, we've been unnaturally civil with each I don't want it to change.