Issues zeroing at 100m

[BPTactical]

The second post was to correct the bad information that keeps being put up before somebody trashes there bottom metal .

C Ward and SAFriday-
I would like to thank you for calling me on incorrect information that I have put forth. I most certainly would hate to see a member damage their item because I gave incorrect information. I will be the first to admit I don't know everything and yes, I am wrong here.
You gave me good cause to do a little poking around on action screw torque and the two certainties regarding it:
1-There is no absolute optimum action screw torque.
2- The absolute that is critical is that whatever the torque is, it needs to be equal for both screws.

65 in/lbs is "military standard" for the M40.
65 in/lbs is what HS Precision calls out regardless of what bottom metal is on the rifle.
McMillian calls 25-50 in/lbs regardless of bottom metal.
Bell and Carlson calls 50 in/lbs for bedding block stocks and 40 in/lbs for Carbolite stocks.
GreyBull Precision calls for "equally snug never to exceed 60 in/lbs".
Remington is all over the board- Synthetic and wood stocks "Hand tight" usually30-35 in/lbs- Sendero and "P" models up to 45 in/lbs. 40XS models 65-70 in/lbs. 40X rimfires 40 in/lbs.

Probably the best answer was from Greg at GreTan Rifles: "just tight enough to keep the action from moving in the stock, some work just fine with 25 in/lbs while other identical rifles need 45 in/lbs". He suggested to start at 25 and after a few shots pull the action and check for signs of movement. Increase in 5 in/lb increments until there is no indicator of movement and STOP. If the rifle NEEDS 65 in/lbs to hold it snug then there is a problem with the bedding-something is moving and that needs to be addressed before anything else can happen.

The stock itself is the biggest variable. Pillar bedded and Aluminum blocked stocks can stand a little higher torque than a tupperware or wood stock.
And yes C Ward, @ 65 in/lbs the risk of damaging the stock bottom metal exists. Not to mention the stock Remington screws will stretch and then they will never stay tight regardless of torque setting. Aftermarket screws are typically better quality and will withstand higher torque values.

Another thing that is critical is the screws need to both be at equal values. What we are trying to achieve is a stress free mating of action to stock. If the screws are unequally tightened that stress free mating is virtually impossible to achieve.

I was wrong, you guys were right.
Thank you for calling my attention to it.

[SA Friday]

Whoa dude. Not calling you out on anything. Just saying he would see deviation at 50 yds also if it was mechanical.

[BUC303]

If you are hitting all of your shots in a quarter size hole at 100 yards just to the right of the bull I don't think your bipod is the problem, you are probably pulling with the trigger finger. Unless you are left handed I would put money on that being your problem. If you are not preloading the bipod correctly the gun can jump around but you can still be relatively accurate if you are doing everything else correctly. If that is the case, it really just screws your sight picture and the chance of a fast follow up shot.

Make sure you are using the pad of your index finger, not the knuckle and squeeze the trigger straight back and hold. You don't want a choppy pull and release, you can hold it until you see the point of impact. Dry firing practice (with snap caps or the like) will probably work wonders for you. Pick a point and put your crosshairs on it and practice squeezing the trigger. Your crosshairs should not move from that point. This is also an easy way to find out if you are flinching or closing your eyes while you are shooting. I have heard of guys who do this with a laser boresighter as well and put your crosshairs on the laser mark, and if it moves all over the place you need practice. I do it out of my sliding glass door in the back yard on a spot I marked on my fence.

If you start getting good at dry firing but still have issues at the range try to blind load your rifle and throw a snap cap or two in with live rounds. If you are jerky when you hit that snap cap or close your eyes when you pull the trigger you are going to know it instantly.

Here is a link to a video that illustrates trigger control better. If you watch closely when he uses the knuckle the tip of his finger wraps around the trigger, so he is not getting the straight back pull you want. I believe he said there was a .5 MOA difference at 300 yards using the knuckle vs. the pad, and that is from a "professional shooter." (I don't think he refers to himself as such but it is not just a hobby for him)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S72eh...layer_embedded


Try that and report back

[quickdraw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S72eh...layer_embedded

Or you could come out to the CRC match like C Ward suggested and ask SHLowlight (Frank) himself..... ;-)

[SuperiorDG]

Or you could come out to the CRC match like C Ward suggested and ask SHLowlight (Frank) himself..... ;-)

I've been to a few of the CRC matches and I second that they are great to learn. A great bunch of shooters and folks in attendance.

[C Ward]

Looking at the picture the bipod is a Versapod or one of the copies , the USA made ones are good quality but the import ones tended to be crap .
The bipod it self is a copy of the Parker Hale design and there is no way with out rigging something to tighten the wobble . There is nothing wrong with the design and some of the guys I shoot with shoot them well .
The PH style bipods are just too wobbly for my tastes and I run a Harris swivel with a Podloc , you can loosen the pivot to level the rifle and then lock it down solid .

Also looking at the picture the forend looks to be from a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock , cant say for sure without seeing the whole thing . Its an injection molded stock with an aluminum bedding block built in . It's a good rigid stock that a lot of people poopoo because of the name .

It is really hard to diagnose position / technique issues with out watching the shooter . Some stuff to try first ,

Get as square and straight behind the gun as is comfortable , the more the recoil travels in a straight line through the body the better .

Preload the bipod , this is especially important with the PH style bipods as this is what " locks " the wobble down .

When all possible don't put the gun into a hard on hard contact situation , like the steel feet on the bipod to the truck bed or bench top . Get your belly in the dirt or put something in between like a piece of carpet or moving blanket .

Dry fire tell you can't stand it and then do it some more .


There is a very large and active long range shooting community on the front range and info on the matches can be found here ,
http://coloradomultigun.com/
http://sportingriflematch.com/
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...83#Post2482083
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...062#Post315062
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...2563#Post32563
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37424
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6763

There are also to local sources for training ,
http://thunderbeastarms.com/training/
http://www.precisionrifleworkshop.com/prwcivilian.html

Both being taught by active competitive and military and or LE shooters .

The best advice is to come out to the matches as at any one time there are everything from beginners to distinguished shooters from all back rounds from IT guys to SF snipers . We all started somewhere and always help out the guys looking to learn .

[Eggysrun]

Thanks for the great advice guys. I will try to make it to the next event to get some more FTF input on my shooting.

[smchop]

Could be canting the rifle also, not so noticeable at 50 but showing up at 100. Make sure your scope is level in the rings and level on the horizon. I never saw the post mentioning what caliber so could be anticipation of recoil also. Just an idea.