I like this guy

[mcantar18c]

To say "if you are a devout muslim then you are not a true American" is just plain bigoted and close minded.

I agree with that statement 100% (his, not yours). Call me bigoted and close-minded if you'd like.
MB88 makes some great points on this.
To put it simply, a devout Muslim by nature can not be a true American, and an American that fancies themselves to be Muslim are fooling themselves as they are not true to their religion. You can be one or the other, not both.

[bryjcom]

Sorry guys for my statement. I guess I forget the part in the constitution where it says only NON MUSLIMS can be good citizens of America.

My mistake. Forgive my ignorance.....

[TFOGGER]

Acid test: Replace the word Muslim with any other religious, cultural, or ethinic designation, and see if you feel the same way.

40 years ago, the word could have been Russian, or Vietnamese, or Chinese. 70 years ago, it might have been n*gger, Japanese, Buddhist. 100 years ago it might have been Jew or woman.

I'll admit I have my prejudices, but I see them for what they are, and try to look past them for the true character of the person I'm dealing with. Radical Islam is without a doubt a destructive force, but I have known many moderate/secular Muslims that were kind and generous people. The same can be said for most zealots....Westboro Baptist Church, anyone? They CLAIM to be Christians, but most would agree that their stated beliefs and actions belie that assertion.

[bryjcom]

I'm curious if you guys think that devout Christians, that have an allegiance to God, are true Americans??

[Mazin]

Man your trolling this topic...

There are many who will disagree but this nation was founded upon God and the Christian faith, not islam. MB888 has it right about the extreme nature of islam and I suggest that you learn more about it to see the type of enemy the US is at war with and when you get to the part of the quran that says its your duty to kill anyone who won't convert to islam take a good look at who you consider biggoted.

As an Instructor myself I reserve the right and have used it to decline my services to anyone I see fit too. If you have an issue with that then please don't ever ask me for my class. Although I would not have voiced it they way that ol guy did I do think that he is within his right to teach whoever he wants.

[Mazin]

Care to go deeper on this one?

Per Muslim belief, his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia. He is to uphold the five pillars of Islam and the Quran. His capital per say is Mecca to which he turns to prayer five times a day.

Furthermore, a devout Muslim must not make friends of Christian and Jews (Look up 5th tab verse 51 in Quran). Muslim also must submit to the Imams and Mullahs which have declared and swore the annihilation of Israel and destruction of USA.

Moreover, a devout muslim is instructed to marry four women and multiply. He is allowed and expected to 'beat and scourge' his wife in honor killing when she disobey him. 4th tab verse 34 in Quran.

Most of all, a devout muslim per Quran believes that Muhamad and Islam do not allow freedom of religion and expression hence why Islam and Democracy do not belong in a sentence.

I have few moderate muslim friends who came here with me to be Americans. Even them are here to escape these so called devout muslims who follow the quran word by word.

**** these devout asholes. They are the bigots.

^^^^ this
Can't say it enough...This is our enemy and make no mistake about it. Also if you think this old man is a bigot then you need to ask yourself this, if I had someone tell me that they wanted to kill myself, family and country, would you give them the means to complete their mission? Sounds like a radical question but let me ask you, is this not what has been said publicly by devout members of this peaceful religion?

[ChunkyMonkey]

I'm curious if you guys think that devout Christians, that have an allegiance to God, are true Americans??

Let's put it this way. Having growing up in a muslim country - I have been told many many times by folks who you would consider very moderate muslim and by the imam who leads thousand and thousand congregation members that according to Quran, to kill the infidels (all non muslim), a muslim still goes to nirvana/heaven.

The first 1/4 of Quran tells story of young Muhammad. The last 3/4 is about waging wars on the non believers.

If anyone could show that same violence encouragement in any religions, I am all ears. I am not a devout Christian by all mean - but there are 3 references to violence in the old testament. Christian also teaches if you believe in Him you will be saved whereas Muslim teaches nonbelievers shall be punished. Similar message - one is hope, the other one with stroke of fear.

Quran also mentions the Bible and Christian multiple time...

The unbelievers among the People of the Book
(the Book is the Bible) and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

Quran 98:6

Commanding Christian beheading/execution?

When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Quran 47:4

Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy...

Quran 8:59-60

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.

Quran 9:123

and so on... I am not an expert on the bible, but all those years they made me read Quran certainly have some of these imprinted in my mind. There countless of ex muslim or ex terrorist who speak so strongly against the muslim belief, but of course they are being ignored by the mainstream. Because to be politically correct, you must embrace all humanity even though some of them are brainwashed since birth. Call me bigot, but I know who my enemy are.

[TSOTSI]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...153954962.html

http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...t=43746&page=2

[bryjcom]

Man your trolling this topic...

There are many who will disagree but this nation was founded upon God and the Christian faith, not islam. MB888 has it right about the extreme nature of islam and I suggest that you learn more about it to see the type of enemy the US is at war with and when you get to the part of the quran that says its your duty to kill anyone who won't convert to islam take a good look at who you consider biggoted.

As an Instructor myself I reserve the right and have used it to decline my services to anyone I see fit too. If you have an issue with that then please don't ever ask me for my class. Although I would not have voiced it they way that ol guy did I do think that he is within his right to teach whoever he wants.

I actually applaud his honesty and defend his right to refuse service to anyone he wants. Usually when people are allowed to speak their mind they expose who they truly are, good and bad.

And I am most certainly NOT making an argument for islam or defending its beliefs in anyway.

But, its not about what islam is or isn't. Its about making a statement that any devout muslim is not a true american and that is just bull****.

He's a bigot for that statement and I don't care if you agree or not.

[Mazin]

But how could you be a devout muslim in a country of "infidels"? How could you consider your self a true american if your faith tells you to kill anyone who is not muslim. How could you call yourself an american but your faith and leaders of that faith say america is the "Great Satan". you would be a hipocrite. You cannot serve 2 masters.