Expensive Dog Walk

[Jer]

Dang to wrap this up:

In my very first post I said I was in the wrong.
Am I pissed I got a ticket - yes. But my own fault.

As for 'Saying your dog is better trained (go to a K9 selection & training course sometime and then come back to this statement) and that it's for the 'donut fund' is doing nothing to help your cause.'

Training - she's Schutzhund Level 3! Check it out, she's trained.
Donuts - cops and donuts need I say more. IT WAS A JOKE.

FYI when I drive out of LAX there's always a LAPD car at the local donut store!

My guess is this attitude towards cops you present in this thread shows up when you are contacted by one in real life. Believe it or not, you are less likely to get a ticket when you are respectful than when you are a prick... even if you don't think you are outwardly. Personally, if I had a badge, everyone who allowed their dog to roam free would get a ticket from me. Why you ask? Well, I'm glad you asked that. It's because those 'scenarios' I made up earlier weren't made up scenarios... I actually witnessed each of those and I can tell you that each and everyone involved in those situations were devastated and a dog ended up dead in each one through no fault of it's own. It should also be noted that the dog that ran into traffic was also 'very well trained' much as you have mentioned here. Dogs react when they're spooked and no amount of training will take that out of them. The dog that mauled the little girl's dog was also one of the dogs you hear about that 'have never bit before' so either they lied or dogs are capable of resorting to their instincts in time of high stress. In all cases a simple leash could have prevented the situation and it really shouldn't have even required a law for the owner to know better. So, I would write tickets to drive the point home. Sure I could just give warnings but had you not been given a ticket would you have even thought about it again? Probably not. You certainly wouldn't have posted here about it so look how much awareness that one ticket created. I say good job LEO and you need to be a more responsible pet owner who takes responsibility for his actions and safety of an animal that would follow you through hell if you asked it to.

Find another forum to bitch about being cited for a law you admittedly broke.

[hollohas]

Dogs react when they're spooked and no amount of training will take that out of them.

Wrong. Most dogs run, hide or go crazy when they hear gun shots. But hunting dogs don't. Why you ask? Glad you asked that...because they have been trained not too.

I think everyone here will agree or has agreed that the law is the law. If the law says you must leash, then you must leash or pay a fine. But your generalizations about dogs off leash are absurd.

[Jer]

Wrong. Most dogs run, hide or go crazy when they hear gun shots. But hunting dogs don't. Why you ask? Glad you asked that...because they have been trained not too.

Yeah, talk to me like I've never been around hunting dogs. Take that same dog that's trained to not flinch around gun fire and walk them off leash next to a busy road (Prospect & Shields in Fort Collins in this case) and then pass someone riding a skate board going the same way in the cross walk. Suddenly, that super smart dog that's fearless of gun fire is now inexplicably afraid of the sound the skate board wheels make on the rough concrete. The dog then panics and goes out into traffic to avoid the sound that neither you nor I would think twice about it being afraid about. I was at that intersection waiting to turn left at the front so I saw the entire event unfold clearly. Had the teenager swerved to miss the dog it would have likely meant the loss of human life so the right decision was made, the dog died a horrific painful and slow death in front of everyone all while the dog's owner had the leash draped around his neck the entire time. Turns out that dog was also a hunting dog (I asked when I saw his RealTree camo collar & leash) and trained to not fear gun fire which is a very focused and specific type of training. To say that that dog now is afraid of nothing and will never react adversely to conditions neither you or I can predict proves your level of intelligence.

I think everyone here will agree or has agreed that the law is the law. If the law says you must leash, then you must leash or pay a fine. But your generalizations about dogs off leash are absurd.

Love the way you call real life experiences generalizations because even if I hadn't witnessed these first-hand they would be any less relevant. The bottom line is I'm a dog lover and have watched too many dogs die a horrible death due to the owner's stupidity and ignorance to what's possible. You seem to fit this nicely since you seem to think nothing I have said is possible and there's no good reason for leash laws within city limits. I suppose you also think it's not possible to be mugged or attacked so why carry a firearm, right? The odds are good you won't get in an accident and your driving record is clean so why wear your seat belt, right? How is this different?

[hollohas]

Jer, As for what you have seen happen to dogs, I never questioned your real life examples nor did I call them generalizations. Each event sounds horrible. However, your generalized statement was that training can't keep a dog from getting spooked. I gave ONE example that it can. Of course a gun trained dog won't necessarily be steady on a busy street. But if a dog can be trained to be gun steady, why can't he be trained not to get spooked on the street? Or anything else for that matter? It can and that is my point. Service dogs are trained not to spoke on busy streets.

You are flat out wrong when you say no amount of training can get the spook out of a dog.

Final note, I have nothing against leash laws. Never argued that. I do however think some posts here come from leash Nazis (no reference to Hitler...think soup Nazi instead).

[Jer]

Jer, As for what you have seen happen to dogs, I never questioned your real life examples nor did I call them generalizations. Each event sounds horrible. However, your generalized statement was that training can't keep a dog from getting spooked. I gave ONE example that it can. Of course a gun trained dog won't necessarily be steady on a busy street. But if a dog can be trained to be gun steady, why can't he be trained not to get spooked on the street? Or anything else for that matter? It can and that is my point. Service dogs are trained not to spoke on busy streets.

You are flat out wrong when you say no amount of training can get the spook out of a dog.

Final note, I have nothing against leash laws. Never argued that. I do however think some posts here come from leash Nazis (no reference to Hitler...think soup Nazi instead).

Sure, just like a select few amount of people are trained to handle higher speeds than the average public. Doesn't mean they should be allowed to speed because all the other variables are still out there. Now, by your statements, I should expect LEOs to judge if the dog has special anti-spooking training before issuing citations? This is just stupid. You need to stop. You can NOT expect a dog to react in a predictable manner to unknown situations when you can't even expect a human to react properly in similar circumstances. Maybe you had some crazy dog once that had millions of dollars in training and wouldn't react adversely to ANYTHING EVER but in the real world this just doesn't happen. Why do you think service dogs are also not exempt from leash laws? Herp derp. I'm a leash nazi.

[hollohas]

Now, by your statements, I should expect LEOs to judge if the dog has special anti-spooking training before issuing citations? This is just stupid.

Not what I said. I said the law is the law and I have nothing wrong with it. I'm not questioning the law or how it is enforced. I was questioning your very general statement that dogs can't be trained not to spook. You're obviously very worked up so I think I'll let it rest rather than ruin your evening.

[Jer]

Not what I said. I said the law is the law and I have nothing wrong with it. I'm not questioning the law or how it is enforced. I was questioning your very general statement that dogs can't be trained not to spook. You're obviously very worked up so I think I'll let it rest rather than ruin your evening.

My evening is just fine thanks. Taken out of context I could see how you would think I was oblivious to dog training and didn't know anything about certain dogs who are trained certain ways. It also isn't true that 100% of all dogs can be trained to not spook by gunfire so as long as that statistic isn't 100% then we can't expect EVERY dog to react to ALL unknowns in a predictable manner. I stand by my previous statement which was dogs couldn't be trained to not spook but if you apply context you see that I was saying that dogs can't be trained to not spook to ALL situations which could make lack of leash a non-issue. You chose to see it as I was saying that no dog could be trained to not spook about ANY situations which is a big difference between those two little words. Still has no bearing on this conversation because it's impossible to take a dog and make them spook proof from all situations, known and unknown. After all by definition if a situation is unknown how can you train a dog against it?

I can't believe I've even responding to this actually. It's reading comprehension at it's most basic form.