No on 103

[Zundfolge]

Also note that Colorado Schools already rank decently high (17th in the nation according to this group) and yet we don't spend as much per pupil as many other states that are doing much worse. See this chart (it's real big or I'd have IMG tagged it).


At any rate, a "temporary tax" is like "temporary herpes".

[OneGuy67]

I voted no on this, but truthfully, was torn. Working in government right now, I know how tight our budget is, how much additional work I've been given, how much prioritizing has been done, how much our pay cuts and furloughs have been and cost me, how much health insurance has gone up. My take home paycheck is substantially less now than it was 5 years ago and consumer prices have gone up dramatically in that time.

I voted my pocketbook, knowing I can't afford to pay more because I don't have the money.

It is too easy to say cut the fat, but from the outside looking in, I don't know what the fat is that needs to be cut. Too much generalization. I know there are some teachers here on the forum and I would really like to hear from them about their schools, their budgets, their administration and their ideas about where their structure could be manipulated to meet the current budget.

[Ridge]

They also add that line, "and for other uses" Everytime we give them more $$ it finds a black hole never to be seen again.

that line is why I voted no. Annoys me almost as much as auto shop receipts that say "extra fee for profit". Don't blatantly tell Mr you're ripping me off!

[cebeu]

Bring back dodgeball and many of our educational system woes would "go way."

[Inconel710]

My wife and I voted no as well. We were torn, but our son is in a charter school. We pay $200 a year for the extra field trips and put in time volunteering at the school . I'd rather see the school raise its fees than raise taxes - I trust the school to spend $ wisely. I don't trust Denver!

[jackthewall81]

School money goes away, teachers are paid less, good teachers leave for private schools or higher paying schools, and then because of the no child left behind act where schools get money based on test scores, the teachers teach for the test and omit the supplemental forms of education such as music, science, and the social arts. My mother retired from Douglas County School district after teaching for 30 years because people vote no on these kinds of bills just to save money from their own pockets. She lost her BRT job and was forced into early retirement. She basically acted as the assistant principal as well as helping special needs children read, she mentored teachers on teaching methods, would substitute for no extra money if a teacher called in sick, and taught night classes for teachers trying to expand their syllabuses. Now they have no one to do these jobs because people are voting away money from the school districts. Douglas County was one of the best school districts 4 years ago with some of the highest scores in the states, and with no money the superintendent left 2 years ago. They hired a new one for less pay and the schools are on there way to DPS or APS levels, which are at the bottom of the state in terms of scores.

Then white affluent parents move out of the district because of the decline in adequate education opportunities for their children, once they all move out who moves in?

I believe that public schools should go extinct and that private schools should take over, just because I am a believer in Bureaucracy. But the foundation to this nation is education. And that education is primarily public education as of right now. Take the money away from that and give it to other useless government programs, then we have nothing left. Technology advancements will be outsourced to other countries who qualify more engineers, scientists, and program developers. We will have a country full of arts degrees, and students who cannot get into colleges and a huge need for specialized services (we already are in need for them). Yes there are tons of problems with the public school systems, but it is the foundation of our country and it needs much more funding to keep this country where we want it to be, on top of the world. To be on top, we need to have the most educated and most well rounded children in the world and cutting public funding narrows the public education that our students can get. Killing our country from within.

My .02 just because my mother was a teacher, and forced into retirement because of selfish voters.

[Zundfolge]

If we could just get 3 concepts cemented in the minds of most Americans I think we'd be better off.

1) Economics is not a zero sum game.
2) Correlation does not equal cause.
3) A right cannot exist where it creates an obligation to another.

#2 is the applicable one here ...

Yes there are tons of problems with the public school systems, but it is the foundation of our country and it needs much more funding to keep this country where we want it to be, on top of the world. To be on top, we need to have the most educated and most well rounded children in the world and cutting public funding narrows the public education that our students can get. Killing our country from within.

Spending money on education DOES NOT equal better education. It just means at best we have a well funded bureaucracy ... at worse we have a giant black hole we keep trying to fill with money. In the case of public education we have a well funded bureaucracy and a well funded union machine that keeps Democrats in office (so they can continue to get more money from the people for the black hole).

my mother was a teacher, and forced into retirement because of selfish voters.

And I won't be able to retire at 65 because of selfish government bureaucrats (including teachers) that continue to steal half of what I make every year.

[Lex_Luthor]

My fiance works in Special Education. She says that their budget is supposedly separate from the rest of the school's funding, but somehow the director manages to squander it. But somehow manages to live a lavish lesbian lifestyle, flying her daughter all over the world for ice skating. I think I last heard that she was selected to be audited. I hope they catch something.

They've been cut of the "teacher work days" which amounted to something like 17 less days in the year that they'll be paid for. Some of the para's weren't allowed to go in for CPR, First Aid, and Crisis Control training because they still had a couple months left in the previous year's certification. So apparently it's ok to let the training lapse while still requiring the para's and teachers to fulfull their duties even though no longer qualified. It'll probably be next year before they can go back for the training they need.

She speaks Spanish, and is "asked" to translate at parent-teacher conferences for other teachers/kids, instead of operating her own conferences. My mom is a qualified Spanish translator, and had worked for this same district for close to 10 years as a Para. Now they won't return her calls to become an official translator for these exact situations, because they would rather have someone who isn't appropriately qualified - who is on the clock already - perform duties that aren't included in what they should be doing. My fiance refuses left and right to translate, saying that she has her own job to do, and tells them to hire someone properly qualified, and if they need a reference, she knows someone who is perfect for the job.

[jackthewall81]

Look at the higher test scores in the state, then look at the amount of money that those counties have. Looks like higher test scores directly correlate to money.

Funny because my was a teacher and my dad is a engineer who works for a goverment contractor. He cannot retire at 65 because of the same problems.

What will help education systems improve in your opinion zundfolge?

[Zundfolge]

Look at the higher test scores in the state, then look at the amount of money that those counties have. Looks like higher test scores directly correlate to money.

Sources please? Because I already posted a chart that shows several states that spend significantly more than Colorado per-student that have LOWER test scores (along with a few that spend less and score higher).

What will help education systems improve in your opinion zundfolge?

Privatize and de-unionize the system.

In 1837 the compulsory government/union monopoly of education began with the institution of a system built on the Prussian model, who's original intent was to create better citizen-soldiers that no longer thought for themselves. I fail to see how this is a good thing.

Get government out of it and allow parents to choose how their children are educated and more important, how much they're willing to pay. The ensuing competition will elevate the education of our children far beyond what it is today and it will cost less. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" works.