No on 103

[Lex_Luthor]

My fiance works in Special Education. She says that their budget is supposedly separate from the rest of the school's funding, but somehow the director manages to squander it. But somehow manages to live a lavish lesbian lifestyle, flying her daughter all over the world for ice skating. I think I last heard that she was selected to be audited. I hope they catch something.

They've been cut of the "teacher work days" which amounted to something like 17 less days in the year that they'll be paid for. Some of the para's weren't allowed to go in for CPR, First Aid, and Crisis Control training because they still had a couple months left in the previous year's certification. So apparently it's ok to let the training lapse while still requiring the para's and teachers to fulfull their duties even though no longer qualified. It'll probably be next year before they can go back for the training they need.

She speaks Spanish, and is "asked" to translate at parent-teacher conferences for other teachers/kids, instead of operating her own conferences. My mom is a qualified Spanish translator, and had worked for this same district for close to 10 years as a Para. Now they won't return her calls to become an official translator for these exact situations, because they would rather have someone who isn't appropriately qualified - who is on the clock already - perform duties that aren't included in what they should be doing. My fiance refuses left and right to translate, saying that she has her own job to do, and tells them to hire someone properly qualified, and if they need a reference, she knows someone who is perfect for the job.

[jackthewall81]

Look at the higher test scores in the state, then look at the amount of money that those counties have. Looks like higher test scores directly correlate to money.

Funny because my was a teacher and my dad is a engineer who works for a goverment contractor. He cannot retire at 65 because of the same problems.

What will help education systems improve in your opinion zundfolge?

[Zundfolge]

Look at the higher test scores in the state, then look at the amount of money that those counties have. Looks like higher test scores directly correlate to money.

Sources please? Because I already posted a chart that shows several states that spend significantly more than Colorado per-student that have LOWER test scores (along with a few that spend less and score higher).

What will help education systems improve in your opinion zundfolge?

Privatize and de-unionize the system.

In 1837 the compulsory government/union monopoly of education began with the institution of a system built on the Prussian model, who's original intent was to create better citizen-soldiers that no longer thought for themselves. I fail to see how this is a good thing.

Get government out of it and allow parents to choose how their children are educated and more important, how much they're willing to pay. The ensuing competition will elevate the education of our children far beyond what it is today and it will cost less. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" works.

[OneGuy67]

Privatize and de-unionize the system.

Get government out of it and allow parents to choose how their children are educated and more important, how much they're willing to pay. The ensuing competition will elevate the education of our children far beyond what it is today and it will cost less. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" works.

I can't disagree with this notion, however, most people can't pay, which is one of the reasons why many attend public schools as their parents can't afford a charter or private school. This then gets into the question of giving public money to people to spend, which then gets us back into the government controlling the dollars (collection and dissemination) and then comptrolling it.

Parents should be able to choose for their kids and parents should be able to pay their own way. However, that isn't reality.

[Zundfolge]

I can't disagree with this notion, however, most people can't pay, which is one of the reasons why many attend public schools as their parents can't afford a charter or private school. This then gets into the question of giving public money to people to spend, which then gets us back into the government controlling the dollars (collection and dissemination) and then comptrolling it.

Parents should be able to choose for their kids and parents should be able to pay their own way. However, that isn't reality.

I dunno ... I grew up with a little Catholic school about 4 blocks from my house ... most of the kids I knew that went there were po (too poor for the second 'o' and the 'r') There's no way some of those kids parents were paying for their schooling (well other than the money extorted from them to pay for the public schools they weren't using).

Where there's a will there's a way and the American people are the most charitable in human history.


I think we've all been conditioned to think there are some things that only government can do. We've only had compulsory public education for 174 years, and somehow things like The Renaissance, The Enlightenment and the birth of our own great nation happened without it.

I don't have all the answers but there has to be a better way than just blindly throwing money down a government run black hole.

[jackthewall81]

I can't disagree with this notion, however, most people can't pay, which is one of the reasons why many attend public schools as their parents can't afford a charter or private school. This then gets into the question of giving public money to people to spend, which then gets us back into the government controlling the dollars (collection and dissemination) and then comptrolling it.

Parents should be able to choose for their kids and parents should be able to pay their own way. However, that isn't reality.

i see privatization of all education as a initiative. If all schooling is privatized it will create a system where education is the single most important thing to succeed within American society . Drop outs will decrease, the so called racialized groups will emerge from poverty, IF their children know that the only way to succeed is to get an education, and the only way to get an education is to PAY for it like everything else in America since we are bureaucratic nation. We are not socialist (at least not yet) and private education would help because parents would work knowing that they have to pay for school the whole way until high school graduation. Dropouts would be the burger flippers of the world, but there would be less of them because they grow up knowing that schooling is something that is not just handed to them.

[OneGuy67]

when the state (county and city too) can show me that they are effectively using my $6500 a year in property taxes, and my 8.25% on everything I purchase...my .125% road use tax, my 4.63% in state income tax, .....etc, etc, etc, I'll gladly give more to education.

You pay $6,500 in property taxes!! Holy cow!

No, you're probably right. That's why vouchers are probably the best realistic idea out there.

I disagree on this solely on the issue of public money being given to private institutions. You want your kid to go to Catholic school? No problem. You will need to pay for it though, out of your own money. Same for any secular school. You want your kid to go to Cherry Creek High School? No problem. You figure out how to get him/her there and they are golden. Open enrollment.

[jhood001]

I currently don't have any children, but I probably will at some point and the private vs. public debate will gradually gain more interest for me.

For now, however, my question is this:

Advocates for the privatization of education seem to think that doing so will increase efficiency and as a result, drive down costs. However, we are seeing the exact opposite in the cost of private college education. Would the trend we have seen over the last decade+ in the private college sector not be applicable to primary education? And if not... why not?

And would education still be mandatory up to the age of 17 (or whatever it is now) under a privatized system? And if it was, wouldn't there be even more incentive for private school systems to charge more? Things that you are required to have for one reason or another generally cost alot more than the optional ones.

I grabbed a quick graph, but I can't attest to its accuracy or validity.

[jackthewall81]

Sources please? Because I already posted a chart that shows several states that spend significantly more than Colorado per-student that have LOWER test scores (along with a few that spend less and score higher).



Privatize and de-unionize the system.

In 1837 the compulsory government/union monopoly of education began with the institution of a system built on the Prussian model, who's original intent was to create better citizen-soldiers that no longer thought for themselves. I fail to see how this is a good thing.

Get government out of it and allow parents to choose how their children are educated and more important, how much they're willing to pay. The ensuing competition will elevate the education of our children far beyond what it is today and it will cost less. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" works.

A few states doesn't represent all of them and I am talking specifically about Colorado. Ill get some for ya, my mother will gladly email me some.

I agree. Everything needs to be privatized, but it wont happen for a while.

[Zundfolge]

I agree. Everything needs to be privatized, but it wont happen for a while.

No, you're probably right. That's why vouchers are probably the best realistic idea out there.