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  1. #91
    High Power Shooter CO Hugh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO303 View Post
    He'll come out of the closet soon.
    Agreed.

  2. #92
    Sig Fantastic Ronin13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPTactical View Post
    We have seen historically that a large amount of children that commit serious crimes come from dysfunctional families.
    Bert, I'm not arguing with you here, but while this is true it's a non-exclusive issue too- look at John Hinkley, Jr.... He did not come from a dysfunctional family.

    My stance- let them do what they want to do, they want to pay joint taxes as a married couple- great. Bill's husband ends up on his death bed and he wants rights to be in the hospital room with him for his final hours, let him. Susan wants to be able to order the doc to remove the feeding tube from her wife, why stop her. Sanctity of marriage? I like that picture ghettodub posted- See: Britney Spears' 55-hour-joke-of-a-marriage.

    Freedom is a 2 way street folks- you want your freedom, someone else wants theirs... just like you can't pick and choose the rights on a case by case basis, what I mean is you want the freedom to say "We're all equal and deserve to be free," but you can't restrict someone from saying "Blacks should be treated as second class citizens." So you want to be able to marry Mary Jane Rottencrotch, you shouldn't be able to tell Gary he can't meet Ace at the alter and make their partnership official.
    "There is no news in the truth, and no truth in the news."
    "The revolution will not be televised... Instead it will be filmed from multiple angles via cell phone cameras, promptly uploaded to YouTube, Tweeted about, and then shared on Facebook, pending a Wi-Fi connection."

  3. #93
    High Power Shooter CO Hugh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPTactical View Post
    I am so very torn on this subject.
    1- I am all for personal freedoms, if that is the life that one wishes then so be it. Just don't expect me to accept it as "normal" and don't you dare think you deserve anything exceptional or "protected class" status.
    2-Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman.
    3-Adoption-Bullshit. It takes a man and a woman to make a child and it takes a man and a woman to raise a child. I sincerely feel that a child in a gay marriage is set up to fail. The additional stresses it places on a child must be tremendous.
    We have seen historically that a large amount of children that commit serious crimes come from dysfunctional families. Seriously, how much more dysfunctional than wife and wife or husband and husband can you get?

    What is the worst part is the clear indicator that this is a further degradation of the very fiber of our society, morals.
    Without morals there is no right or wrong.

    I think this is by design, one way to weaken a strong county and society is to destroy the basis of said society.
    Destroy the traditional family, destroy the morals of society and you have a society that is very easily influenced and manipulated.
    Perfect Marxist strategy.

    I generally agree with BP. BHO's stance is not so groundbreaking: Cheny was in support of it, http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...gay_marri.html.

    As a starting point: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-dennis-prager

    As to why the government is involved, one big reason has to do with divorce law and the welfare state. If you get divorced with children the government is concerned that the children wind up on welfare so they stick you with the bill to support them.

    Like many things government intervention starts because people engage in self indulgent behavior without any thoughts to the consequences, say if something goes wrong. Then when they realize the error of their ways they want the government involved.

    Also wait, soon there will be anti discrimination laws and punishment for those that disagree with same sex marriage or refuse to conduct marriages. The left claims people disagreeing with them are haters.

    You already cannot discriminate agaisnt some man wearing a dress in employment or housing no matter how sincere your convictions that it is wrong.

  4. #94
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    I don't think it's fair to call a gay marriage "dysfunctional" by nature, or that it is somehow immoral.

    I believe it is more immoral to condemn two people who want the same freedoms as others.
    Keep Calm and Carry.

  5. #95
    High Power Shooter CO Hugh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpienads View Post
    Here's my problem with the gay marriage movement.

    Most of the activists are liberal. If they hadn't spent the last 100-ish years working so hard to centralize as much power as possible in the government, they would have the right to marry whoever they wanted. The way I see it, as long as you're not infringing on anybody else's rights, you should be able to do whatever you want. However, liberals disagree. They want the government to do everything for them, and then when they want something like gay marriage, they bitch about not having the right to do it.

    You cannot separate rights from responsibility. You want the government to be responsible for everything? Well now you don't have the right to do what you want. You want the right marry whoever you want? Well then you need to take responsibility for your own life and quit relying on the government to provide you with everything you think you want/need.

    Here is food for thought or a discussion point: the bill of rights arose to ensure that the government did not infringe on rights we all have as a result of living as free men, they are inalienable. Thus, the right to bear arms is a right all free people have; the second amendment did not give us the right.

    Liberals complain that the constitution is negative and does not protect positive rights, such as housing, wealth redistribution.

    So if the government does not create rights, only God does, then why does the right to marry have to come from the government?

    Remember a government that creates rights will also take them.

  6. #96
    Industry Partner BPTactical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO Hugh View Post
    Also wait, soon there will be anti discrimination laws and punishment for those that disagree with same sex marriage or refuse to conduct marriages. The left claims people disagreeing with them are haters.
    And yet another dimension of Pandora's box opens.............
    The most important thing to be learned from those who demand "Equality For All" is that all are not equal...

    Gun Control - seeking a Hardware solution for a Software problem...

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPTactical View Post
    I am so very torn on this subject.
    1- I am all for personal freedoms, if that is the life that one wishes then so be it. Just don't expect me to accept it as "normal" and don't you dare think you deserve anything exceptional or "protected class" status.
    2-Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman.
    3-Adoption-Bullshit. It takes a man and a woman to make a child and it takes a man and a woman to raise a child. I sincerely feel that a child in a gay marriage is set up to fail. The additional stresses it places on a child must be tremendous.
    We have seen historically that a large amount of children that commit serious crimes come from dysfunctional families. Seriously, how much more dysfunctional than wife and wife or husband and husband can you get?

    What is the worst part is the clear indicator that this is a further degradation of the very fiber of our society, morals.
    Without morals there is no right or wrong.

    I think this is by design, one way to weaken a strong county and society is to destroy the basis of said society.
    Destroy the traditional family, destroy the morals of society and you have a society that is very easily influenced and manipulated.
    Perfect Marxist strategy.

    So, are you saying that because I was raised by a single parent I'm somehow different from any other child out there? And, You can get A LOT more dysfuctional..

    I'm willing to bet that if you studied it, a child raised in a happy gay household would come out BETTER than one raised by a married but unhappy male and female.

    Maybe a civil union between two gay individuals is immoral to you... That's fine. That's your view... Being "anti-gay" is immoral to me... Your immoral action are destroying blah blah blah... See how it works?

    Morals, like ethics, are a personal thing...



    I normally agree with just about everything you say and you're a pretty good guy... But your comment on children being more likely to commit a serious crime because of a "dysfuctional family" is utter bullshit and it kind of pisses me off... I've never commited a serious crime in my life and I don't plan it... And I came from one of those "dysfunctional" single parents families you say are the cause for all of America's problems...

  8. #98
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    The government shouldn't even be involved in marriages. I don't agree with homosexuality I think it is a sin and some are unfortunately tempted with it just as we all are tempted with other sins but I think they should not be withheld rights the rest of us enjoy. To say they should is a very dangerous road to go down and could come back to bite you in the ass when they take rights from you because they don't agree with you ethically or morally. Just my opinion and I certainly don't judge or hate on people who disagree. It really shouldn't be such a polarizing topic if you ask me

  9. #99
    More Abrasive Than Sand In Your Crotch tmleadr03's Avatar
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    The relative morality in this thread is based on Judeo-Christian theology. I find it fascinating that people who are so strongly for personal liberties when it comes to firearms are do opposed to it when it comes to sexuality.

  10. #100
    I blame everything on Tummy Aches
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    I say let's allow gay marriage but bring back the death penalty when it used to be a quick process. A little give and take...

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