Lefthand Cleanup 12-30-06

[7idl]

if it's the brats at CU, just load up a semi full of that shit and dump in on the field at Folsom.

[Marlin]

Yep. :evil:

[Wulf202]

I've been there once.

A long story short, i will not go back, even to clean up. I value my life too much.

[DanaT]

Marlin,

There were a few more than two of us there. I was there, but not in your area.

What "we" think of when cleaning up the "shooting area" is where you were (i.e. the small canyon a 1/4 mile up from the trailhead the 4x4s use). When "they" think of the shooting area, they are thinking of the area where you can either turn and go up the hill or the very base of carnage canyon.

They don't give a damn about anything except keeping carnage canyon open so they can tear the living crap out of a few miles worth or stream bed. They then want to blame people shooting on their misdeeds.

Really, I won't go out of my way to help them one bit anymore. If you read what is generally posted on CO4x4, they want shooting banned becasue that area should be for the exclusive (mis)use of wheelers.

Basically, most of them despise people shooting. They want scape goats.

The real problem is the college kids in that area.

I won't go the lefthand because it is so damn un-safe.

-Dana

[DanaT]

ok guys I am a newbie here but understand I have been wheeling as long as I have been shooting(20+years). I think that the more hands the better. Makes the job a whole lot easier plus you get to meet new people that may have similar interests Jeeping and shooting for me are like peanut butter and jelly but like any hobby there are idiots that make us all look bad ironically wheelers have the exact same consequence as shooters do for the damage these idiots do, another place where you can't shoot or wheel. maybe its time to at least help each other out and maybe become aligned to fight the government in closing more areas where both hobby's can be enjoyed, strength in numbers you know? 4 Wheelers have become very good at dealing with the feds on land issues and come to think of it I can't think of any other hobby the feds consider to be on the wrong side that has had more success then the off road crowd in fighting uncle sam, the greenies or who ever.

Lipp..

When I was up there cleaning up, no-one knew I was a "shooter". All I heard was nasty comments about shooters and how no shooters came out to help out. Really makes me wanna go out an do it again.

One look at Carnage and then you tell me how the area is being used responsibly.

I am not an environmentalist (very far from it). However, I think wheelers are one of the biggest problems that shooters face. At least we have the NRA with lots of money to help us out (sometimes).

Here is just one (of very many) examples of how the 4x4 community wants to share lans use..

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showt...hlight=shooter

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showt...hlight=shooter

In the thread, immediately above, look at what one of the Moderators (Camp) says.

Its obvious that its a we-them.

-Dana

[Wallary]

Dana, I think your right we vs. them! I retract my offer; those guys can go to HELL! After reading some of the threads posted on the 4wheelers forum it’s obvious most of them think their $h!t don’t stink. Well let me tell ya it dose. I’ve been jeeping around in Colorado for 34 years and know for a fact that 4wheeling is a dirty business and it causes much more damage on the environment than shooting ever will. Just look at the size of the shooting area. Tiny compared to the miles of off road trails. I’ve seen mufflers, busted tail light lens, broken glass, batteries, and all sorts of parts laying all over the mountains. Most of it’s still there and has been for years. Look at all the gas, oil, grease; anti-freeze and all engine fluid dripping and spilling out of those rigs. Every time I went 4wheeling I checked the fluids and almost every time I got home something had leaked out. It’s was low because the trail was hard on the vehicle pitching back and forth or the rocks got me or the seals just gave out. It was always something. If something bad happened on the mountain you were lucky to get down in one piece and no one stuck around to clean up. I’m not the only one this has happened to I’m sure it has gotten the best of us one time or another. $h!t happens! I’ve seen some guys with big bad rigs tearing up stuff on and off the trail that pissed me off. Also I’ve seen some guys shooting guns leaving behind the junk they shot up. I doubt if these guys were affiliated with any club. I believe most of the 4wheelers and Shooters that belong to a club are ethical and try to obey their rules of conduct. I’m not saying we’re all saints, but we have a lot of eyes watching us.
The fact is a lot of people contribute to the mess left at shooting areas; like partiers, irresponsible youth, idiot adults, shooters and wheelers. But they still point the finger at the shooters. Why? Can’t they see that the only ones that would care enough to go to their clean up parties: are other clubs like ours that organize similar clean ups for the same cause. You can’t build an army by insulting your allies. Until they figure that out they'll have to go it alone. :evil:

[Marlin]

Thats Right, Sorry about forgetting about You Dana. :mrgreen:

[7idl]

how does that saying go?

nuke boulder from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.....

[LippCJ7]

you know if I heard somone talking about me thtat way i would be hacked to guys so I don't blame you for not wanting to be any part of the wheelers clean up

[DanaT]

What I have said on CO4x4 I will say again.

The environazis are getting EXCATLY what they want. They don't want the shooters out of the NF. They don't want the wheelers out of the NF. They don't want motorcyclists out. They don't want equestrians out.

THEY WANT EVERYONE OUT who doesn't have a kayak, subaru, and a mountain bike. Ooops, almost forgot the Tevas...

But look at what is happening. Get the wheelers to blame the shooters. Get the shooters to blame the motorcyclists. Let them all blame each other and pick them off one by one.

Here is the real problem. The NF is property that we all own. None of us have an exclusive lease to do on it as we want while not being bothered by someone else.

I like to go camping. When I go, I generally get rid of a few rounds. Does it make noise in the NF? Sure. But, again, no-one has exlcuisve use so they can live with the noise I make. Does that motorcycle driving by my campsite make noise in the middle of the night? Sure it does. But guess, what I have to learn to live with it.

What many people are missing is common courtesy to one another. I limit my shooting to daylight hours. I try and do it well after people are done sleeping in. Yes, I can fire within 100 yards of a campsite, but is that courteous? No. If there are people around, I try and go somewhere where my disturbance is kept to a minimum.

Normally, only if people are a$$hats to me, will I not try and be accomidating. I still have a first-come-first-served attitude though. I have been asked when camping (getting up there on a thursday night to get a good spot) if I would mind moving my camp because someone else who came up Saturday morning wanted to be close to the trailhead. Yes, I mind.

But really, working together against the environazis and common courtesy go along way. If everyone want the Forest Service to solve the problems, they will. They will take access away from everyone.

-Dana