True Zund, and I like herding dogs, I have friends who have had many different kinds over the years and they're just damn smart dogs. As far as pits go, that idea is off the table, I love 'em to death, would love to have one, but as I said before, I spend a lot of time with my mom and our dog Bear, and she just has this thing against them ever since we brought one home years ago- she just doesn't trust them around Bear and she's stubborn like that, so I'd rather not make an attempt to persuade my mom by forcing something on her. I really like the idea of English Shepherds because A) they're good looking dogs, B) they're pretty low maintenance and easy to live with from the get go, and C) I have yet to meet one I didn't instantly fall in love with.