Aurora PD

[JM Ver. 2.0]

When a thread turns into a train wreck and most all relevant discussion is exhausted, the mods are kind enough to put it out of it's misery.

roger that pook, makes sense. Thanks!

Which is what happens to 99% of the cop threads on this forum...

[KevDen2005]

When a thread turns into a train wreck and most all relevant discussion is exhausted, the mods are kind enough to put it out of it's misery.

That is the most profound way it could have been put.

[hatidua]

Sorry... You're right... "Crying like a bitch" would have been better... "ALL THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD SUE!!!!" That's bitching... My opinion. Or am I not entitled?

And really? FBI and Cops all over with guns... You think the dude is going to shoot everyone out there in cuffs?


So much respect that the only things you see on here are about the bad things they do... And about how they should be fired... And about how they're all just a bunch of gang members...

I so dearly hope you don't bring this level of drama and narcissism to your day job but I suspect that is being overly optimistic...

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I so dearly hope you don't bring this level of drama and narcissism to your day job but I suspect that is being overly optimistic...

You take me way too seriously.

[stevelkinevil]

this thread is still going eh? good grief.

[KevDen2005]

this thread is still going eh? good grief.

I know, I thought I was clear in the begging and pleading with the mods to shut it down...they are having a laugh...Torturing KevDen!

[theGinsue]

If they didn't have a description, how did they ID the guy in the end???

The second is when officers in hot pursuit of a fleeing felon chases that felon into a REP area.

As for the fleeing felon, all I can say is that you normally have to identify your fleeing felon before you may be involved in a "hot pursuit."

The circumstances as described in this incident sound more like a localized dragnet, which most, if not all courts have determined to be unconstitutional.

The most effective method for avoiding the need for obtaining a warrant or conducting dragnet searches is to simply obtain a willing, knowing, and voluntary consent. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing better than a well obtained consent search.

Be safe.

I've only made it through the first 75 posts of this thread and feel the need to address something.

CStone hit the nail on the head. LE did not have a description of the suspect and were not in what is officially recognized as hot pursuit. Because of these facts, the use of the exigency clause is invalid. While not absolute, it is very difficult to maintain officially recognized hot pursuit without maintaining direct eye contact/line-of-site with a known suspect. To exercise "exigent circumstances", you MUST combine "Hot pursuit" with "fleeing felon" (as in We were in hot pursuit [which can stand up in court] of a fleeing felon). This was not the case here. Individually, they do not justify most tactics.

On to another topic within this discussion...
This has already been mentioned a few times but I find this particularly alarming. While I'm sure (hope) there was more involved than was identified in the referenced news story, a particular statement in the story stands out like a red flag to me:

“Once officers got to his car, they found evidence that he was who they were looking for,” Fania said. “When they searched the car, they found two loaded firearms.”

With more and more individuals realizing their obligation to their own personal safety begins with themselves and are exercising their rights to carry firearms, what if more individuals detained in this instance had been carrying? Would this have been enough to have gotten them arrested and their vehicles and other personal items confiscated until LE could sort through the most likely suspect?

This entire situation disturbs me on multiple levels. And no, I would not grant authorization to search my vehicle (I've learned the hard way as well as being on the other side of this coin). Either be prepared to present uncontestable evidence of probable cause before a judge, or obtain a warrant (which also requires some degree of probable cause to satisy a judge).

We all know that simply exercising your Constitutional rights and refusing a search shouldn't be construed as a form of guilt, however, it is most often taken that way. As has been identified in some of the real life experiences of some of our members, there is a certain amount of leniency provided to the LE community to make it increasingly uncomfortable for you to refuse to cooperate. Anyone making the decision to exercise their rights needs to understand from the outset that to do this WILL come at the expense of your time and comfort. You can likely expect some degree of manhandling short of actual mistreatment. The longer you are detained or in custody increases the likelyhood that you will give them sufficient reason to charge you with a crime where they will likely receive a conviction. Techniques such as "kettling" are often used to escalate a situation beyond boiling point on behalf of the "suspect" and providing LE with justification to move you from "detainment" to "arrest". It's exceptionally easy to fall victim to these techniques and the officers have effectively used them on many suspects before they came across you. Once they decide you are to be arrested, it's equally easy to claim "resisting arrest" - which you really have little ability to prove your innocence against. Yes, I know the laws say "innocent until proven guilty", but when it's your word against 3+ duly sworn officers of the court, you haven't a chance.

Gentlemen, we are stuck in an untenable situation these days where we are damned if we do (damned if we acquiesce & forfeit our rights) and damned if we don't. We, as a society, have voted into office individuals who have put forth laws which make it practically impossible to maintain our rights. The obvious answer is to vote new people into office that still believe in what the Founding Fathers of this nation had in mind. Sadly, I never see this happening again. We, again, as a society, have happily and voluntarily handed over our essential freedoms in order to obtain some sort of promised security. Make peace with this reality now because this trend will only continue until we are no longer a free people.

ETA: I also feel the responsibility to make a few things here clear so as to not be misquoted:
(a) I have a profound respect for Law Enforcement and the officers who have to face difficult deciions and events every day on the job.
(b) I don't know and I am not making any claims that individuals here had their 4th Amendment rights violated via the searching of their vehicles. In fact, I honestly believe all individuals involved grantged authority to search.
(c) While I think the 2 hours is excessive, I understand and agree that once the decision to perform this dragnet was made, the decision to handcuff the affected individuals was the right this to do to protect officer and citizen safety. Unfortunately, had I been one of those people I would have been in tremendous pain after more than 10 minutes due to repetitive shoulder injuries.

ETA2:

I have a shoulder injury and being handcuffed (or having my arms in that position) for a period longer than 10min causes me agonizing pain- reason #146 why I don't break the law.

I know your pain brother.

ETA3: Wait a minute. So what I'm hearing is that the guy they apprehended at the scene of this busy intersection (the guy with a couple of guns in his car) was NOT the armed robber? So, this guy was arrested (er, "apprehended") simply for the fact that he had 2 firearms in full exercise of his Constitutional rights in his vehicle? Oh, this is grand. I suspect HE will have something more to say to the City of Aurora about this even if the adult occupants of the other 18 car do not.

[theGinsue]

Gotta get my posts back some how.

?? What happened to all of your posts?

[theGinsue]

Oh, I'm seeing the last page of posts here where there is a call to lock this thread.

Is that what all of you want? (I don't want to be accused of getting the last word in and then locking the thread before someone can rebutt my comments).

[TFOGGER]

Nah, leave it open...it's like an all night Bitch-o-Rama...