Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Police.

[Jer]

Just as long as you are also prepared to go out the same way. If the police come into your home they will not be alone, as stated above they run in packs. Chances are that a tactical entry team will be deployed. If you shoot at the cops you may hit one or two of them before you realize that it's the police but by that time you are DRT.

I think it's funny that when I started carrying a firearm I saw it as an increased responsibility. I now can take a life so I go OUT OF MY WAY to avoid situations that could present that scenario. Why is it that LE seems to think having more training, weapons and armor means they can create MORE of these situations? Seems counter intuitive to me. I can see doing this for proper reasons which are few and far between all the actual scenarios which make me angry that they over-use them. Every time they do this there's a chance for lost life on either side so you would think this would make them use this as a last resort. Using this tactic for someone growing some pot is just plain stupid IMO.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[T-Giv]

shooting the cops Or ANYONE else for coming into your house uninvited, will be a life changing event. emotionally, physically, financially, legally, etc. Its not something to be made light of. Even IF you were in the right. You probably wont feel right after the smoke settles.

That is precisely my point. Well said.

[Jer]

shooting the cops Or ANYONE else, will be a life changing event. emotionally, physically, financially, legally, etc. Its not something to be made light of. Even IF you were in the right. You probably wont feel right after the smoke settles.

Believe me when I tell you, the thoughts of the event, will allways be with you.

I don't think anyone is arguing that point. That doesn't change anything I've said here. You can say the same thing in a thread about an active shooter scenario in a mall and it probably wouldn't change anyone's reaction to an incident like that. If it's an unlawful entry into your home you have the right to protect yourself from anyone and everyone. I bet those in the power to conduct such raids in Indiana will think twice about if it's worth it or not now. That's all this law creates is some pause to make sure they really are doing the right thing and if they are that they are triple checking all their facts to make sure no mistakes are made as they can't be afforded when lives are on the line. Accountability.

[BushMasterBoy]

I guess we have to make our houses fortresses. Steel cages around our doors and windows that require explosives to breach. Here is a good platform for up & coming politicians, "Vote for me! I will protect you from the government!"

[Jer]

I guess we have to make our houses fortresses. Steel cages around our doors and windows that require explosives to breach. Here is a good platform for up & coming politicians, "Vote for me! I will protect you from the government!"

If you do that then you clearly have something to hide. I was at a citizen academy for our county and during one class we were discussing drug houses and warrants and such. The question came up from someone in the class about how you could spot a drug house in your neighborhood. They were going over some of the signs (and presenting them as if each one condemned you as a drug dealer) and he brought up surveillance cameras. He asked the class who had them and I was in the back corner that night and raised my hand. He started to say 'See, none of you do so if you see them those are dug dealers' type thing but as he was saying his statement he glanced over to see my hand raised. Caught off guard he clarified 'You have security cameras watching your front porch and front of your house?' to which I replied 'I sure do.' and he seemed surprised by this. He instead decided to continue on with his other 'facts' to tell the aging hippie soccer moms who asked the question what to look out for.

The point is... you would be amazed what is passed off in LE circles as 'facts' when it comes to such things. You put bars, heavy duty locks/hinges and cameras on your house and you're now a target because you clearly have something to hide. This isn't science fiction either.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Jer]

i hope i wont be labeled as a criminal now. I just bought another house and I am going to install all the things you mentioned. at least I dont have a dog.

You will. It amazes me how some of the LEO's who've been doing it for decades think and those are the ones training the new recruits how to think about situations. I think if the average citizen knew how easily they were labeled potential criminals these days they would be less inclined to sign away their freedom & liberties to these people.

[Ronin13]

You will. It amazes me how some of the LEO's who've been doing it for decades think and those are the ones training the new recruits how to think about situations. I think if the average citizen knew how easily they were labeled potential criminals these days they would be less inclined to sign away their freedom & liberties to these people.

There was a time, in my youth, when I was interested in getting on the Sheriff's department here in Jefferson County. All the guys I networked with and made friends with pretty much proved something to me (and kinda turned me off to the idea of pursuing that career): Cops, after a time, see things very differently from the way non-LEOs see things. For instance, you see a kid sitting at a bus stop with headphones on, baggy clothes, and a general "urban" appearance and think he's just a kid, albeit not a very well dressed one, but you usually (generalizing here) don't think he's a hoodlum. A police officer will see the same kid and think (again, generalizing) he's up to no good. And I understand this, they deal with the worst in people and see so much negativity so often that they have to be more guarded. Like my deputy friend told me back in high school with regards to profiling and the reason cops usually assume based on appearance: "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck."

[cstone]

not necessarily


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_1...raid-shootout/

this guy killed one cop and wounded 5 others and he is alive and well.

"The suspect in the shooting is at a local hospital under guard, with non-life threatening injuries." Quoted from the story listed above. I can only speak for myself, but being in the hospital under guard is not my idea of alive and well. Alive yes, but not well.

Here is a link to some further stories about this issue involving the suspect; Matthew David Stewart.

http://www.deseretnews.com/topics/22...d-Stewart.html

I will offer this, there is much more to this story than a police raid gone bad.

The people of this country have a right to be secure in their person and property. The Fourth Amendment authorizes the government to search and seize after a warrant has been issued by a judge and supported by probable cause. If people are going to make the point that the government never has the right to search or seize, under any circumstance, then I am going to point out that you have not read or understood the Constitution.

As for the reason LE are searching, that is based on whatever particular laws they are empowered, by the legislature and executive (elected by the people) to investigate and enforce.

As for the civilian academy issue; I would say that having surveillance cameras on your front door may be an indicator of criminal activity. Certainly that alone is not probable cause. Also, if you have 9' fences around your property, topped with barbed wire or concertina wire, and vicious dogs with their vocal cords removed roaming your property, and welded cages over doors and windows on your residence, I would say those are indicators that you have something inside your dwelling that you are trying to protect or keep people away from. These are indicators, not probable cause that some criminal activity is taking place. If surveillance on this same residence shows that over a week long period, twenty known felons, all with previous convictions for trafficking in controlled substances come and go with some regularity, I would say we are inching our way toward probable cause, but not quite there. Through some diligent police work, I am able to get a hand to hand buy on three occasions (two of them surreptitiously recorded) with the occupant of this same dwelling, I would now present my investigative results to a magistrate and apply for a search warrant for the residence, and an arrest warrant for the person who sold me the (laboratory tested) controlled substance purchased on the three previous occasions.

Since the occupants of the said dwelling showed me the weapons they had inside and joked about shooting the first MF'er coming through the door, a tactical decision would need to be made on how we plan to serve the legally issued warrants. What I can say about this "hypothetical" situation is, some dogs may die. At least one door and fence will be probably be destroyed and several windows will probably be yanked out of their sills. Flash bangs and gas may be deployed, and the neighborhood might be better after all is said and done. Of course, the tactical decision may be made that a barricade will be place around the location, and the occupants will be required to surrender themselves to the authorities.

I can say that most cops see these raids the way soldiers see combat. They may not like it, but this is the job they signed on for. Afraid, but resolute, they are doing what they believe is right to make their jurisdiction safer for the rest of us. Hold the police accountable, but cut them a little slack. Not every cop is a jack booted thug, just itching to come crashing through your front door.

Typing on the internet is easy. Life is different.

Be safe.