Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Police.

[Ranger]

Another reason to have body armor at the ready. They are more likely to shoot first if they see a gun. I for one would identify my target before putting my finger on the trigger.

Yes, but what if they are undercover. Now they SHOULD have a visible sign of being LEO, that should be the first clue. Secondly, I assume you don't wear your body armor 24/7 and if you do then I don't think I would like to smell what you're puttin' off .

[aahorn]

Does it really matter?
You open fire on LE during a no knock, be they right or wrong do you really think your going to survive?

Yep. agreed!

just quit with the no knock BS raids. too many mistakes have been made

[T-Giv]

Another reason to have body armor at the ready. They are more likely to shoot first if they see a gun. I for one would identify my target before putting my finger on the trigger.

That is completely false. Police are not just going to start shooting if they see a gun. They deal with people having guns a lot more than private Joe's. If you are holding a gun, follow their orders precisely, they will take it away from you with no fire being exchanged. They will then figure out that they royally f-ed up and are not in the right place. Going rambo against the cops because you have a duty to protect your family is not the right answer. Hell, I hope that the cops come unlawfully enter my home. Maybe they will hit me with a taser while they are in there! Then I can land a fat law suit and never work another day in my life....because being a cop sucks!

[cstone]

http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/.../SE0001.1.html

Yet another law that only a lawyer could love.

IMO, the whole thing hinges on the homeowner/occupant being able to prove they believed that the public servant was unlawfully entering their house. This would be made more difficult if attempted posthumously. Under this IN law, if you believe that state or local LE is unlawfully entering your residence, you can:

A. Defend your home with the force you deem necessary. This will be answered by LE using the force they deem necessary to secure the domicile and take you into custody. I see this as either you and several LE being seriously injured or killed, and/or a barricade situation.

or

B. You surrender to LE upon entry. Upon learning that they have entered your domicile unlawfully, you engage an attorney who sues the jurisdiction and the individual officers. All of this happens after any evidence LE seemingly finds while in your domicile is excluded from any criminal proceedings against you.

When and where you choose to prove that LE has entered your home unlawfully is up to you. As for me and mine, we would rather do that in a courtroom in front of a judge, magistrate or jury rather than trading lead with well armed police officers.

Just as a reminder, IN (and any other state law) is not binding on federal law enforcement. If a BATFE agent (or DEA, or Dept of Education, etc...) comes through an Indiana resident's door tonight, and that resident shoots the agent, believing they have entered their house unlawfully, the resident will be charged in a federal court by federal prosecutors. The federal government does not submit to state laws and has not for over 150 years.

Be safe.

[lowspeed_highdrag]

I wholeheartedly agree with this law, and I am flabbergasted and impressed that a government organization not only admitted that they can and are wrong, but also that a citizens home is his castle and even the government has no right to violate that illegaly. They then went one step further and said that the life of a law abiding citizen is more important than that of a government agent who is violating the law. I am impressed, surprised, and feeling a little giddy. Needless to say, our forefathers would be impressed as well.

But, I will say this. To those who believe they can engage in a shooting war with an agent entering your home illegally and come out the winner, you are sadly mistaken. If you are not killed or wounded by fire, you will be destroyed financially by the legal action they take against you, the court and lawyer fees to defend yourself against the cover up that WILL take place, and the stress of 5-10 years of constant litigation. Even if you win the case and are exonerated, you wont be the same man you were the day before they illegally no-knocked you. Im not saying not to defend yourself, Im just saying be mentally prepared for the consequences of every action you take. Its all about priorities, and if your priority is the safety and well being of you and your family, then there will be consequences.

[lowspeed_highdrag]

That is completely false. Police are not just going to start shooting if they see a gun. They deal with people having guns a lot more than private Joe's. If you are holding a gun, follow their orders precisely, they will take it away from you with no fire being exchanged. They will then figure out that they royally f-ed up and are not in the right place. Going rambo against the cops because you have a duty to protect your family is not the right answer. Hell, I hope that the cops come unlawfully enter my home. Maybe they will hit me with a taser while they are in there! Then I can land a fat law suit and never work another day in my life....because being a cop sucks!

There's a dead Marine who would disagree with your statement if only he could....

[cstone]

... being a cop sucks!

It pays the bills and sucks less than working at McDonalds

US History is replete with examples of what happens when you shoot at government employees. Most people think of Waco and Ruby Ridge, but I prefer the Whiskey Rebellion and Fort Sumter.

Be safe.

[T-Giv]

There's a dead Marine who would disagree with your statement if only he could....

Well I can't speak either way on that one because I was not there. What you are describing sounds like poor training for whoever shot him or he was acting in a way that portrayed a threat to the officer that shot him. Once again I was not there so I can speak with no authority. I can; however, say that it is wrong to generalize that the police in general will start shooting if they see a gun when entering a home. Every cop is a person just like those that are not. There is no way to be certain. But as stated above flexing your muscles and escalating things to a lethal level because the police entered your home unlawfully will never yield good results for either side.

[Zundfolge]

That is completely false. Police are not just going to start shooting if they see a gun. They deal with people having guns a lot more than private Joe's. If you are holding a gun, follow their orders precisely, they will take it away from you with no fire being exchanged. They will then figure out that they royally f-ed up and are not in the right place. Going rambo against the cops because you have a duty to protect your family is not the right answer. Hell, I hope that the cops come unlawfully enter my home. Maybe they will hit me with a taser while they are in there! Then I can land a fat law suit and never work another day in my life....because being a cop sucks!

There's a HUGE difference between "having a gun" and "pointing a gun at officers".

You kick in my door I'll be POINTING my gun at you (and pulling the trigger), not simply standing there casually with it at my side waiting for you to produce a warrant.

Cop sees someone aiming a gun at them especially after they've geared up/psyched up for a dynamic entry raid in the middle of the night and the person with the gun will be shot. Probably repeatedly. Likely fatally.

As for "going rambo against the cops because you have a duty to protect your family" ... I'm not "going rambo against the cops" I'm "going rambo against the criminals pretending to be cops that just kicked my door in to rob me" because like I said before, statistical probability of them being criminals is significantly higher than of them being cops at the wrong house.

[T-Giv]

There's a HUGE difference between "having a gun" and "pointing a gun at officers".

You kick in my door I'll be POINTING my gun at you (and pulling the trigger), not simply standing there casually with it at my side waiting for you to produce a warrant.

Cop sees someone aiming a gun at them especially after they've geared up/psyched up for a dynamic entry raid in the middle of the night and the person with the gun will be shot. Probably repeatedly. Likely fatally.

As for "going rambo against the cops because you have a duty to protect your family" ... I'm not "going rambo against the cops" I'm "going rambo against the criminals pretending to be cops that just kicked my door in to rob me" because like I said before, statistical probability of them being criminals is significantly higher than of them being cops at the wrong house.

That's the beauty of America, you do it how you feel is best.