Quote Originally Posted by cstone View Post
"The suspect in the shooting is at a local hospital under guard, with non-life threatening injuries." Quoted from the story listed above. I can only speak for myself, but being in the hospital under guard is not my idea of alive and well. Alive yes, but not well.

Here is a link to some further stories about this issue involving the suspect; Matthew David Stewart.

http://www.deseretnews.com/topics/22...d-Stewart.html

I will offer this, there is much more to this story than a police raid gone bad.

The people of this country have a right to be secure in their person and property. The Fourth Amendment authorizes the government to search and seize after a warrant has been issued by a judge and supported by probable cause. If people are going to make the point that the government never has the right to search or seize, under any circumstance, then I am going to point out that you have not read or understood the Constitution.

As for the reason LE are searching, that is based on whatever particular laws they are empowered, by the legislature and executive (elected by the people) to investigate and enforce.

As for the civilian academy issue; I would say that having surveillance cameras on your front door may be an indicator of criminal activity. Certainly that alone is not probable cause. Also, if you have 9' fences around your property, topped with barbed wire or concertina wire, and vicious dogs with their vocal cords removed roaming your property, and welded cages over doors and windows on your residence, I would say those are indicators that you have something inside your dwelling that you are trying to protect or keep people away from. These are indicators, not probable cause that some criminal activity is taking place. If surveillance on this same residence shows that over a week long period, twenty known felons, all with previous convictions for trafficking in controlled substances come and go with some regularity, I would say we are inching our way toward probable cause, but not quite there. Through some diligent police work, I am able to get a hand to hand buy on three occasions (two of them surreptitiously recorded) with the occupant of this same dwelling, I would now present my investigative results to a magistrate and apply for a search warrant for the residence, and an arrest warrant for the person who sold me the (laboratory tested) controlled substance purchased on the three previous occasions.

Since the occupants of the said dwelling showed me the weapons they had inside and joked about shooting the first MF'er coming through the door, a tactical decision would need to be made on how we plan to serve the legally issued warrants. What I can say about this "hypothetical" situation is, some dogs may die. At least one door and fence will be probably be destroyed and several windows will probably be yanked out of their sills. Flash bangs and gas may be deployed, and the neighborhood might be better after all is said and done. Of course, the tactical decision may be made that a barricade will be place around the location, and the occupants will be required to surrender themselves to the authorities.

I can say that most cops see these raids the way soldiers see combat. They may not like it, but this is the job they signed on for. Afraid, but resolute, they are doing what they believe is right to make their jurisdiction safer for the rest of us. Hold the police accountable, but cut them a little slack. Not every cop is a jack booted thug, just itching to come crashing through your front door.

Typing on the internet is easy. Life is different.

Be safe.
Let me preface this post by saying that I support LE and am generally the first one to defend them when they are unfairly attacked on internet forums or even in real life.

My question to you would be concerning the part I made bold above as it is the direct correlation between if and then. Why does someone who wishes to protect himself, his family or his belongings automatically become a person of interest or suspect at best? At what point did taking responsibility for your own life and possessions become an act of only a known criminal? Why are we now criminalizing those who don't live in a fantasy land where all their concerns are fielded by magical LEOs who are on-site at a moments notice with all the answers? This seems overzealous to a logical thinking and law abiding citizen such as myself and further draws the distinction between 'us' and 'them' which isn't good for either party. This is where I start to have a problem with these raids because the line between known convicted dangerous violent criminal posing an imminent threat and 'suspected pot grower' or 'delinquent tax payer' has become blurred and the next distinction is when people such as myself become labeled 'terrorist' because of my continuous questioning of our leaders as I feel is my duty as a citizen of this nation or even something as simple as a post on Facebook or a firearm purchase.

I also don't want to seem like I'm claiming all LE is 'jack booted thugs' but lots of the people who make the decisions as to what they do seem to be from my personal experiences and the connections I've made within various law enforcement agencies over the years.