Interesting Viewpoint on F&F

[BUC303]

I haven't seen it in my admittedly limited research.

Well there's your problem...

[XC700116]

Got a cite on this? I haven't seen it in my admittedly limited research. Were they not selling suspiciously large amount of weapons to apparent straw purchasers before? They were at least as far back as 2006 per the aforementioned ATF operation.

What exactly is the issue here? I know that folks here hate the current administration, and any activity by POTUS and the entire Executive branch is akin to treason, but explain it to me dispassionately.

As I understand the process, FFLs in Arizona (and other places, but Arizona seems to be Ground Zero) legally sell many firearms to young gun purchasers. Said legal gun purchasers are actually straw purchasers for other buyers, who for various reasons don't/can't make these purchases. These straw purchases are the first illegal act in the chain of activity. The secondary purchasers (or the next ones in the chain) then import the weapons illegally into Mexico for sale to folks we (and the Mexican government/locals) would rather not have armed.

Some of these weapons don't get imported into Mexico, but remain in the US. One of these weapons was used to kill a US LEO, which everyone considers to be a bad thing.

What is the cover up? That the administration knew about the operation? That the ATF allowed guns to flow past the straw buyers into Mexico? That they deny knowing about a covert operation?

Do some more research and you will find that MANY of the FFL's raised concern to the ATF and they were TOLD TO SELL THEM THE GUNS.

The coverup?? are you serious? how about the numerous requests by congress to review the documents and Holder refused to turn them over. Then Obama exercises executive privilege to protect Holder, all the while Holder and the administration are saying they didn't know about it. Then why in the hell would they refuse the requested documents? They knew, they tried and are still trying to cover it up, because 1 it'd be bad for Obama's reelection campaign and 2 Holder would probably end up in federal prison, as he should.

[Rucker61]

This.

And from what I understand, during Op Wide Receiver, the guns were actually tracked (or attempted to be tracked) instead of just letting them "walk", Mexican authorities were in on the operation, no deaths have been traced to the operation, and once it was discovered that "hey, this isn't really working, maybe we shouldn't do this" the operation was shut down in 2007.

I'm not making any excuses for Wide Receiver or those involved, I'm just sayin'.

As I understand it, F&F also had the goal of tracking weapons past the inititial supplier, with some success, with about 35% of the guns recovered and some number of arrests and indictment. Op Wide Receiver also had some number of guns lost as they moved into Mexico.

Executive politics aside, what's the consensus here on the activity of straw weapons purchases for weapons destined for Mexico? Is it strictly a Mexican problem? Do we just arrest the "mules" and not look to stop the next level of purchasers? Is thihs just a state issue and the federal LEOs should stay out of it?

[Rucker61]

Do some more research and you will find that MANY of the FFL's raised concern to the ATF and they were TOLD TO SELL THEM THE GUNS.

Did this same activity happen under the last administration? Is the issue that the ATF told the FFLs to sell the guns?

The coverup?? are you serious? how about the numerous requests by congress to review the documents and Holder refused to turn them over. Then Obama exercises executive privilege to protect Holder, all the while Holder and the administration are saying they didn't know about it. Then why in the hell would they refuse the requested documents? They knew, they tried and are still trying to cover it up, because 1 it'd be bad for Obama's reelection campaign and 2 Holder would probably end up in federal prison, as he should.

What was Holder's crime? I seem to remember that the last POTUS wouldn't even testify under oath, so executive privilege is a two edged sword.

I accept that it's a campaign issue, but everything is a campaign issue to all politicians of all ilks.

[Rucker61]

Well there's your problem...

That's what this is.

Besides, all of my research time has been going into learning about riflescopes, reloading equipment, binoculars, antelope hunting and licensing and chronographs.

[Bailey Guns]

OMG!!! Rucker61 puts a liberal spin on F&F...pretty muck like everything else. Color me shocked! SHOCKED, I tell you.



Pretty sure your thinly veiled attempts to appear objective on this issue, Rucker, aren't gonna fly. Most of the folks here are too well informed to fall for your nonsense.

[Rucker61]

You just lost this one when the first thing you go to is blaming Bush. You refused to discuss the FACTS of a topic that YOU opened. You cannot even speak to these facts that we have brought forth.

Go troll elsewhere.

Is it not a fact that there was an Operation Wide Receiver in 2006-2007, that this operation allowed straw purchasers to walk under surveillance to get to the next node in the chain, and that some weapons were lost without traceability?

Is it not a fact that indictments for OWR began in 2010?

I don't think I've denied any information presented here; rather, I keep asking more questions. Feel free to education me. I welcome civil discourse.

[Rucker61]

OMG!!! Rucker61 puts a liberal spin on F&F...pretty muck like everything else. Color me shocked! SHOCKED, I tell you.



Pretty sure your thinly veiled attempts to appear objective on this issue, Rucker, aren't gonna fly. Most of the folks here are too well informed to fall for your nonsense.

Then make me one of the converted. I'm asking questions, give me some answers.

[Bailey Guns]

It's funny...the rest of us didn't have any trouble finding the answers and the truth. Why can't you? I suspect it's because it doesn't fit with your liberal agenda.

You're not going to find a lot of support here for that agenda.

[Bailey Guns]

For f**ks sake... I just read the article linked in the OP.

It was so slanted I had to turn my monitor on it's side to read it.