So now that the government can prosecute you for not buying health insurace what is next?

[cofi]

too me i would think we would want all our fellow americans healthy as can be.....i have love for everyone in this country rich/poor if it means i have to have a higher tax rate so be it.....i watched my ex girlfriends mom die of throat cancer because the hospitals pressured her to go into hospice care and just die because it would be cheaper for them.....that is not right

healthcare is a right in 99% of the rest of the world

this fake ass shit that oboma came up with sucks a dick and needs to be thrown out

[Teufelhund]

The IRS may not be able to prosecute for this, but repeated noncompliance may put a person on their radar. With 40000+ pages of tax code, they can find something to make your life miserable with. The nail that sticks up is the one that gets hammered...

THIS. Once again, I wish I was as smart as good ole' TF. This guy was able to enunciate in three sentences what I couldn't spit out in several posts worth of incoherent rambling.

It took me all of about 45 seconds to find out how the IRS will handle "noncompliance".

This is from Senator Patrick Leahy's website:

Good luck fellas. I'm sure tax evasion is something they just invented to nail Al Capone. I've had health insurance since I was old enough to work, so I won't find out first-hand.

[hollohas]

It took me all of about 45 seconds to find out how the IRS will handle "noncompliance".

This is from Senator Patrick Leahy's website:

Fact vs. Fiction
Fiction
If you don't buy health insurance, you will be sent to jail.
Fact

Taxpayers who are required to purchase health insurance and do not will receive a notice from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) with the amount of the penalty they owe. Individuals who fail to pay the penalty are not subject to criminal prosecutions and the government cannot file notice of lein or levy any property for a taxpayer who doesn’t pay the penalty.
The obligation for individuals to purchase health insurance beginning in 2014 was included as part of the Affordable Care Act. The provision requires individuals to maintain minimum essential coverage for themselves and their dependents or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014. Families would pay half the amount for children, and the requirement includes a cap on the total allowable fine per family. If affordable health insurance coverage is not available to an individual, then the penalty would be waived. Along with the individual responsibility requirement, the Affordable Care Act also provides subsidies to some individuals beginning in 2014 to help pay for their health insurance premiums and other costs associated with their health insurance.
Taxpayers who are required to pay a fine but fail to do so will receive a notice from Internal Revenue Service (IRS). If an individual still neglects to pay the fine, the IRS can attempt to collect the funds by reducing the amount of their tax refund in the future. Individuals who fail to pay the penalty, however, will not be subject to criminal prosecution. The government cannot file notice of lien or levy on any property for a taxpayer who does not pay the penalty.

I don't see one place in this explanation that says they won't continue to send you this "notice" ( I read that as "BILL") and charge interest on it every month you don't pay the penalty. Sure, they may not be able to garnish your wages or put a lien on your house, but nowhere does this say your "penalty" will ever go away if you don't pay.

Are you going to lose your house for not paying? Nope. Are you going to be prosecuted for not paying? Nope. Are you going to have a massive delinquent tax bill if you don't pay for years? According to all of the explanations I have seen, nothings says a non-paid penalty WON'T follow you for life so one has to believe it be on you like white on rice.

And the IRS will find a way to get you to pay it somehow. All of the arguments say there are only two specific ways they CAN'T make you pay...prosecution and lien/levy. I am sure the IRS won't have any problems finding another way to get you to pay other than the refund route. I don't think we have any IRS experts here but we all know that the IRS ALWAYS gets their money one way or another.

Maybe I missed the part where the laws says a non-paid penalty will go away, so please school me if that's the case.

The tax/penalty is the least of my worries though. It's the idea behind it that worries me. What is the next thing they will charge us a tax/penalty for not buying? This Supreme Court ruling just opened the Pandora's box of taxing/fining American Citizens for not buying something that our brilliant government believes everyone needs to buy in order to help the greater good. The power that the Feds were just handed with the precedent this ruling created is downright scary.

[xring]

IMHO there is going to be widespread noncompliance to this and not because people like you and me who see the right to choose whether we want medical care and what kind as a very very basic liberty. The penalty maxes out in 2016 at about $700 per individual or $2000 per family. Because you can not be denied insurance due to preexisting conditions you can buy a 100M policy in the ambulance on your cell and they cant deny you. Do the math. Shit for somone like me from a get over viewpoint i should send in my penalty check every year gift wrapped with a bow and a scratch and sniff. This thing will have teeth sooner or later and it will be sooner. The teeth will have to grow very large. The alternative is rapidly accelerating debt/gdp well beyond Greece levels and or insurance company insolvency. Or... Dare I say it... Repeal of the prexisting condition part leaving us with a turd without the squirt of perfume. IMHO

[tmckay2]

i don't pretend to be an expert, but considering i work in the healthcare industry and my entire lot of in laws are all canadian, i feel i have some knowledge on this topic.

even if you get past the unconstitutional aspect of this, its still a nightmare. even if you live in a dream world and assume that this will actually provide everyone with good, affordable healthcare, its still a nightmare. probably the biggest mind blow to me is how anyone, even hardcore liberals, can honestly with a straight face believe the government is going to run this effectively and efficiently. i challenge anyone to provide ONE example of the government running anything effectively and keeping costs down. its a physical impossibility. they estimate this to be a back breaking cost. thats what they estimate. so you have to assume it will cost much more, i mean history has proven this time and time again.

then consider that between medicare and medicaid, technically everyone should be covered that can't afford it. i mean medicaid covers the poor and medicare covers the elderly and disabled. the cut off for medicaid isn't really that low in my opinion. my wife and i easily survived off of $35,000 a year for the two of us, still managed to pay 4,500 in student loan back and bank a few thousand. we live frugally but not ridiculously so. i figure you can get by comfortably if you're smart and you try at around $25,000 per two people and the cut off for medicaid, last i checked, was around that mark. and yet, medicaid and medicare are complete boon doggles. so we take those, multiply it and assume we are now going to get good, affordable healthcare? its lunacy.

the long lasting aspect of this is that really logic leads me to believe the government will have to pass more mandates over time to keep this even remotely under control financially. there will have to be requirements for those covered such as no smoking, no drinking, etc. probably rules against certain fat and sugar containing foods. as oppressive as that sounds, from a business standpoint it makes sense. i mean if you have to try to offset the given corruption, fraud and waste that will accompany this (just look at medicare and medicaid for examples of this) then you have to limit costs by ensuring the pay in outweighs the pay out. additionally, as is obvious, you are going to have to have major restrictions on end of life care. recently a study came out of england showing that thousands of people are purposely killed in their healthcare system because they are too expensive with very little overall benefit to society. it sucks for their family, but honestly from a business standpoint it again makes sense. if you detach yourself from the fact that these are humans and could as easily be your family, its easy to see why they would be so cruel.

now our system won't be precisely like england's, but like anything the government touches it will grow in size and strength. thats a given, particularly as it becomes not worthwhile for businesses to provide private care. as the last true "end of life" care nation, if we lose the market for those types of drugs and treatments, less and less developments will be made in that area as it simply won't be worthwhile. these are all long term effects but over the next 50 years i believe all will come to fruition. the country won't implode, but most of us alive today will look back to how things were when we were young and be shocked at how much it changed, and how so few noticed. do it over a long enough period of time and people surprisingly turn a blind eye to all kinds of oppression. sadly, in the short term obama fans will think they were proven right. the healthcare plan won't completely destroy the country over night and quite possibly in the short term may appear beneficial overall.

probably the thing that bothers me most about this law is what we lose that makes us different. sure, healthcare is expensive in america. it could be made somewhat cheaper through various small changes but it will probably always be more expensive. afterall, we pay doctors a lot more and reward being the best by giving big pay checks. its why the best specialists in the world are often found here. what people forget is that while some don't have health insurance, anything can be obtained in this country with money. if you need a heart surgery and have no health insurance, you can get in and get it done immediately if you can come up with the funds. although people are often too lazy or prideful to do so, that money can be raised through various charities and church groups found all around the country. however, as the government takes over more of the healthcare, this will become less possible, much how it is in canada and england, where everyone is on the list and whether you have the money or not you wait. sometimes thats the difference between life and death. its why canadians come here and pay cash all the time. my in laws have done it many times. you know the statitistic about average wait time for an MRI in toronto being around 9 months? thats not an exaggeration, my in laws live there and it took ten months for my wife's uncle to get his MRI for his back. luckily it was a disc out of place, imagine if it was a tumor on his spine.

to say we don't need reform is crazy. to say this is the reform we need is lunacy.

[Irving]

Cofi, it is not my responsibility to provide the means for other people's desires. You can not make something a right, when it puts an undue burden on others.

You still haven't attempted to answer my question as toba single instance of someone in this country being denied health care.

[Irving]

Xring, the difference between what you pay into insurance and what your limits are, is not made up by the magic wand. That is built into the business model, just like every other business where volume of customers makes up for the high costs of a few.

[Irving]

Xring, spend two weeks working bodily injury claims, and when the first request for Remote Healing (the healer concentrates on your ailments, from their office, while you are at your home) comes across your desk, just remember how you are going to break the mold of the evil insurance company because your insured NEEDS six months of remote healing, a year and a half after her 10mph fender bender.

[TFOGGER]

Xring, spend two weeks working bodily injury claims, and when the first request for Remote Healing (the healer concentrates on your ailments, from their office, while you are at your home) comes across your desk, just remember how you are going to break the mold of the evil insurance company because your insured NEEDS six months of remote healing, a year and a half after her 10mph fender bender.

I couldn't help myself...

[xring]

"However, if insurance companies didn't payout benefits as often as some people claim they don't then they would fail because people would choose to take their insurance business elsewhere. Their vested interest is keeping policy holders, not running them off because they fail to payout."

Thats the beauty of a good algorithm.