Clips vs Magazines

[HunterCO]

Well, thats one guy that wont offend anybody if he gives them the finger [pirate]
Anyway, I'm one of those guys that has to see whats in the chamber right before he dry fires anything, regardless of if I already know whats there. Call it habit, call it what you want but imo.. guns dont accidentally discharge... the trigger gets pulled with one in the chamber, and generally its no accident. I'd take a guy that checks before he pulls that only uses loaded rounds before I'd take a guy that knows their is only snap caps in his magazine in a training course so it is safe to dry fire. Imo, the former is safer then the latter.

In almost every case of an "accidental discharge" the accident is that the shooter did something unsafe, either handling, loading, unloading, or the biggest reason: assuming. I'm willing to bet that "accidental discharges" without a lapse in saftey or judgement almost never happen.

I put one through a wall once, but luckly my level of safe handling kept anyone from being hurt. I was on one of my 20 hour work benders, had just gotten home and cleaned my carbine to go shooting the next day. Somehow grabbed my loaded mag to dry fire it. Serious mistake because A: didnt check the chamber before I pulled B: Was doing this with a serious lack of sleep. However, no one was (or could have been) at risk of injury because of the way I operate, the gun was pointed in an assured safe direction.

Keep in mind people, in most cases the only time you can kill somebody accidentally is when you pull the trigger purposely. Always check before you pull.

My .02

Glad somebody gets it. [wink]

Icepirate you don't get it, which I find ironic since you claim your an instructor. Just so you know you did not make me mad nor do I have anything against you I am just speaking my mind that is all.

I agree with foxtrot 100% that I would much rather be around somebody that treats a gun as it should be. Then to be around some idiot that thinks because he has snap caps the gun is safe, That sir is what causes stupidity and the end result is somebody gets hurt.

It's a false sense of security that allows for people to feel they can not follow the basic firearm saftey rules that we are all taught. Funny how it is always the gun that is "unloaded" that gets somebody killed by accident. Do you remember these rules by chance??

1. ALWAYS treat every gun as if it is loaded.

2. NEVER point a gun at anything you do not wish to destroy. (This is the same thing as ALWAYS keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction).

3. NEVER put your finger on the trigger unless you intened to fire the weapon.

Seems to me that if those basic simple rules are followed there would never be some moron cop shoot himself in the leg while doing a demo. Once again if he would have followed a few simple rules it would have made no damn difference if it was loaded or not. Snap caps can not cure stupidity period.

In the case of your freind I never seen the man act in an unsafe manner. He practiced perfect gun saftey and I still do not get your point. BFD he used live rounds SO WHAT he did a great job of teaching people and made it simple.

[Ice Pirate]

Last Post, I promise.

Hunter, you still do not get my point. I'm not saying that it's ok to ever treat a weapon as if it's in any condition other than loaded. All I'm saying is this:

1. WHEN TEACHING/DEMONSTRATING anywhere other than on a range, while the use of live ammo does not increase the possiblity of an accident, it does increases the RISK of serious bodily harm should an accident occur.

2. At NO TIME does the use of Dummy ammo, make it alright to handle any weapon in a manner other than if it were loaded. Yes that means that you still have to keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction and yes, you still have to keep you finger OFF the trigger. I have had instructors under my supervision, carelessly handle weapons in a classroom before, and in those very few cases, I almost had to have my boot surgicly removed from their butt.

3. Accidents happen. Some weapons, like the Browning Hi-Power, the Colt 1911, etc. REQUIRE THE SAFETY TO BE OFF when loading or clearing, in order to operate the slide. Weapons can slip in the hand and there is always the chance that while demonstrating a technique, a normally amazingly safe and highly skilled individual might get distracted with a camera, student, what ever, and inadvertently do something they might never believe themselves capable of. Things can go wrong in a micro second and when they do, it's too late to say, "Sorry about that."

This is why, in the US Air Force anyway, we do not allow live ammo in the classroom. There is no reason to have live ammo in a classroom if you are not planning to shoot in the classroom. That is why dummy rounds are made. It is just an UN-NECCESSARY RISK to you and any students that might be there to use live ammo in a classroom.

I guess for me, I believe that, in the case of an un-thinkable accident, I'd rather hear "CLICK" than "BANG!"

That said, if you want to demonstrate loading, un-loading, shooting, clearing, cleaning, clearance of jams & malfunctions or anything else, with live ammo in a classroom, in a home, or anywhere else for that matter, well, you go right ahead. I won't say a word, or type one for that matter. I won't be there.

[HunterCO]

Last Post, I promise.

Hunter, you still do not get my point. I'm not saying that it's ok to ever treat a weapon as if it's in any condition other than loaded. All I'm saying is this:

1. WHEN TEACHING/DEMONSTRATING anywhere other than on a range, while the use of live ammo does not increase the possiblity of an accident, it does increases the RISK of serious bodily harm should an accident occur.

I got it! If you use live ammo it does not increase the the possibility of an accident, It however does increas the RISK of serious bodily harm should an accident occur.

Are you by chance related to Sarah Brady???

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