Don't vote for Gary Johnson

[Bailey Guns]

Will we feel the same if attacks happened here, regarding terrorist hiding out in places of worship? Will J. Jackson, the MSM and the current CIC deplore another video, attacking Islam and mohammed, or will we as America stand together to eradicate terrorism. Even though i highly doubt it will ever disappear.

I certainly hope so.

America rarely "stands together" these days. You have those on the side of our traditional values and those who will submit to progressive ideals of multiculturalism and appeasement.

We could have enemy invaders marching on our country from all sides and you'd still have those that would tell us it was our fault and if we'd just look at things from the enemy perspective our enemies wouldn't hate us.

You even see a bit of that attitude right on this forum. We have a small contingent here that will argue our issues with radical Islam are a direct result of US "meddling" in middle-eastern countries. Despite the fact that we've had problems with Islamic barbary since the late 1700s.

[Great-Kazoo]

I certainly hope so.

America rarely "stands together" these days. You have those on the side of our traditional values and those who will submit to progressive ideals of multiculturalism and appeasement.

We could have enemy invaders marching on our country from all sides and you'd still have those that would tell us it was our fault and if we'd just look at things from the enemy perspective our enemies wouldn't hate us.

You even see a bit of that attitude right on this forum. We have a small contingent here that will argue our issues with radical Islam are a direct result of US "meddling" in middle-eastern countries. Despite the fact that we've had problems with Islamic barbary since the late 1700s.

^Amen (in an all inclusive way) to that^

[Sharpienads]

Killing 250 people with a drone strike to get one suspected terrorist, that's the high moral ground. America is doomed by it's complacency of allowing the Military Industrial Complex to hijack our Military for profit. Who creates these terrorist? Look up Operation Cyclone.

You seem to know everything Rusty, so tell me, exactly what "drone" is capable of killing 250 people in a single strike? Not that I always agree with the practice of using RPAs to kill suspected terrorists, but I have a hunch you have no idea what you're talking about. Especially since you use the word "drone".

Do you really think that we kill 250 every time we employ an RPA? Collateral damage is way down since we started using them. We've gotten pretty good at taking out the onesy-twosy would be terrorists and insurgents. On that note, if I find out that we had an MQ-1 overhead with eyes on and didn't put hellfires on targets attacking the consulate, I will be more than pissed.

Thank you.

So accidently or negligently killing non-combatants is okay with you, as long as some real bad guys are killed, too?

Well there is a huge difference between accidentally and negligently. The short answer is it depends. We go through great lengths to minimize CD as much as possible, even to the point where we put ourselves at risk sometimes. The whole "you have the right/obligation to defend yourself" isn't absolute (well, you can always defend yourself, but that doesn't mean you won't face the consequences). I do not condone indiscriminate killing. But war is war, sometimes it gets messy, sometimes you make mistakes, sometimes you have to think with your head and not your heart. I don't know if there is a right answer to your question. Like I said, it depends.

[Ronin13]

It is more than OK with me. Hiding out in a village to avoid American attacks, or any attack is immoral. You do not hide behind women and children.
ALLOWING said combatants to (wink ,wink) hide out, says to me they are OK with it and sympathetic to their cause, Killing the infidel.
The town OBL was "Hiding Out" in, that entire area should have been left in rubble along with the Paki .gov.
Realistically we should pull all funding to pakistan, and every other stan, GTFO so they can kill each other in the Name of Peace.

THIS! You'd think $2B a year would buy a little more loyalty...

I understand why they do it; like you, I feel it's a war crime and an abhorent tactic. I don't understand why that then gives us the moral high ground to kill women and children to get to them.

Harboring our enemies is just as wrong as being one yourself. We arrested folks in AFG that gave safe haven to HQN, TB, and AQ (we hardly ever saw much from AQ), they knew damn well what they were getting into when they allowed the bad guys to hid among them.

[USAFGopherMike]

Explain "necessary"



Your first statement says, yes we do, if it's necessary.



I understand that the precision has increased since WWII, but I'd hardly call it a scalpel, as we still get collateral damage.

If collateral damage is acceptable in pursuit of our enemies, is it then okay to kill our own civilians to kill our enemies, if they're hiding among them? How about allied civilians?

It is a scalpel figuratively speaking. During WWII we would use 300 planes dropping 30 bombs each to carpet bomb a target. We tried to avoid taking out the school and church, but it happened... a lot. Now we do that with one aircraft and one bomb. Surgeons use scalpels, but they also sometimes make mistakes.

By "necessary", I mean collateral damage. During the pre-OIF days as we "prepped the battlefield", we found that SH had gotten smart with some of his SAMs. He'd park them under bridges until he was ready to shoot at our guys. He knew that we tried to minimize CD to the max extent possible and bridges were on the list of things we didn't like to blow up. After awhile though, you decide, fuck it, it's not worth the risk to let him keep shooting at us. We'll take out half that bridge if we get that high value military target. We can always rebuild that bridge. I do not advocate killing innocent civilians in order to take out military targets, but it sometimes happens unknowingly or by accident.

The Islamist know we try at all cost to not engage, when being fired upon from mosque, or other places of worship. Hiding out in villages again shows their true colors. Deplorable, unconscionable? Absolutely. However the on going MO they have leaves Our .mil between iraq & a hard place. I believe they (AlQ /Taliban) do this with the hope the world outcry will get us to stop the attacks. IF that ever happens, might as well close up shop and cede defeat to Islam. We do that there, guarantee they will be here in force with higher profile attacks than we ever saw in the sand box.
Detroit is one of the "hotbeds" (allegedly) of islam. Add in X amount of unknown operatives that may have casually walked in from mexico and you have serious security concerns.
Will we feel the same if attacks happened here, regarding terrorist hiding out in places of worship? Will J. Jackson, the MSM and the current CIC deplore another video, attacking Islam and mohammed, or will we as America stand together to eradicate terrorism. Even though i highly doubt it will ever disappear.

There's lots of truth in this ^, however I do believe you have to separate radical islam from everyday peace loving muslims. How do you think those christians feel in Iran? I think we should go after the radical Imams who teach hate and it is on the Muslim community to reject any teachings that do not follow in religious freedom and understanding.

This country was founded on Judeo-Christian values and principles by people escaping religious persecution in Europe. If someboby is unwilling to abide by the laws or thinks that their religious laws/rules (read sharia law) are above ours, they can pack their shit and leave.

[Ronin13]

How do you think those christians feel in Iran?

There are Christians in Iran? I would think believing in Christianity would warrant you to NOT want to live in an Islamic republic.

[USAFGopherMike]

There are Christians in Iran? I would think believing in Christianity would warrant you to NOT want to live in an Islamic republic.

Yes. Few and far between, often persecuted once found out. They don't openly practice. More so in Turkey. I think Turkey is almost 10% now.

[Ronin13]

Yes. Few and far between, often persecuted once found out. They don't openly practice. More so in Turkey. I think Turkey is almost 10% now.

Well the Muslim Turks did commit a genocide of the Christians back in the early 1900's.

[USAFGopherMike]

True. One more reason the Muslim faith is the largest growing demographic in the world today.

[roberth]

True. One more reason the Muslim faith is the largest growing demographic in the world today.

Yeah, they murder the competition.