Is .40 S&W suddenly uncool?

[kidicarus13]

I would like to know what each bullet was and what medium was used for testing.

My crystal ball tells me that whatever the "test method" and medium used, it will not be realistic or scientific enough to satisfy anyone but it will bring the internet gun experts to their keyboards for another rounds of arguements about how the comparison test should have been completed and what the results should have looked like. I seriously doubt the person taking the picture is trying to mislead anyone on purpose.

I believe the photo should be used to support the idea that caliber (9 vs 45) is not as important as shot placement and follow-up shots as needed. Over a large sample of newer generation hollowpoints, 9mm expands (assuming there is expansion) marginally smaller than .45ACP but it also produces less recoil.

For background info: I shoot and carry 9/40/45 so all of my dogs are in this fight. Choose your weapon and ammo and then practice, practice, practice.

[Squeeze]

I think that the .40 cal works just as good as any other caliber of round when your life depends on it. I don't care for the battle of caliber so much but rather the function and feel of the weapon that fires that projectile.

You make an excellent point. I know a police officer who formerly worked at Northglenn PD. He shot and killed a knife weilding suspect with a 9mm Hydrashok - 1 shot, center of mass, dropped the guy like a sack of potatoes right where he stood. As many have posted before me, it's all about shot placement. That being said, however, I seen the autopsy of an assailant who was shot by Pennsylvania PD officers at 25 feet with 180 gr. Speer Gold Dots and that round failed miserably. The assailant was ultimately taken down with 75 gr. Hornady TAP rounds from an AR. I'll post the pic below of the round that hit the assailant in the neck and failed to penetrate or expand properly.

[anomad]

Now, the guys doting on the 10mm, now that's a man's cartridge right there. I fired a friend's Glock 20 not all that long ago and was really pleased at the feel and didn't think the recoil was unmanageable by any means. That being said, I'd love to have a Colt Delta Elite some day.

A 10mm wheelgun is extra cool.

[kidicarus13]

You make an excellent point. I know a police officer who formerly worked at Northglenn PD. He shot and killed a knife weilding suspect with a 9mm Hydrashok - 1 shot, center of mass, dropped the guy like a sack of potatoes right where he stood. As many have posted before me, it's all about shot placement. That being said, however, I seen the autopsy of an assailant who was shot by Pennsylvania PD officers at 25 feet with 180 gr. Speer Gold Dots and that round failed miserably. The assailant was ultimately taken down with 75 gr. Hornady TAP rounds from an AR. I'll post the pic below of the round that hit the assailant in the neck and failed to penetrate or expand properly.

Cool photo. A bullet coming to rest near your spine is never going to amount to a good day for the guy being shot.

[hatidua]

Somewhat off topic but the fly shop in Boulder on Arapahoe has a chest X-ray like that of what a (fishing) fly looks like when a shop attendant accidentally swallows it, barb and all

[SA Friday]

I would like to know what each bullet was and what medium was used for testing.

IDK, but I'll take an educated guess at them.

From left to right:
-Ranger STX,
-Golden Saber (or maybe a Gold Dot, I would have to see a side shot of the bullet to really tell),
-PMC El Dorado Starfire,
-Don't know...
-Furthest right (a guess, might be wrong) a Corbon.


Please keep in mind that most reloading charts will show similar/equal chamber pressures for 9mm and 40, but there is a significant difference in momentum as the 40 cal bullets are heavier. Mass x Velocity is momentum. In determining recoil, Newton's 3rd law relates the mass times the velocity of the bullet will equal the mass times the velocity of the gun during recoil. So, the gun being shot does come into play as to the "snappiness" of the recoil, but consistently there will be more overall momentum from the bullet's momentum. Secondly,

Madusa (Medusa spelled with an a? ); I confess, SAAMI chamber pressures for 9mm and 40 are the same, 35,000 psi, but the smaller diameter of the 9mm allowed for more metal to be used in the older barrels without having to make a gun the size of a brick. The webbing in a 9mm vs a 40 are very different too assisting in controlling the pressure. The 9mm webbing to diameter ratio is higher rendering more strength to the chamber when fired. 40 cal cases are thinner in the webbing thus the whole "guppy brass" issue.

Ultimately, there is a lot of truth in this thread. It all really points to the fact that firearms technology has plateaued. There is now very little difference mechanically in modern firearm design and modern ammunition design. Pick one and practice. I personally have more 40s than anything, but that is because 40 cal is king in action pistol sports. It drove my choice. I am running a very very close 2nd with 9mm pistols. They are simply cheaper to shoot. With the rising price of lead and copper, I have drastically thinned out my 45s. .40 cents a round for decent factory target ammo is pretty brutal, and even reloading costs are significantly higher. 10mm ammo prices? No thank you.

[sneakerd]

I agree totally with kidicarus and Squeeze. I tell people almost every day at work that it's not the size of the pill you send downrange, it's if you can hit a soft spot. I was curious about the medium because there are many different bullets I would like to test and keep- for my own purposes.

[hatidua]

IDK, but I'll take an educated guess at them.

From left to right:
-Ranger STX,
-Golden Saber (or maybe a Gold Dot, I would have to see a side shot of the bullet to really tell),
-PMC El Dorado Starfire,
-Don't know...
-Furthest right (a guess, might be wrong) a Corbon.

There's always an outside chance the third one was a Federal HST...

[SA Friday]

I agree totally with kidicarus. I tell people almost every day at work that it's not the size of the pill you send downrange, it's if you can hit a soft spot. I was curious about the medium because there are many different bullets I would like to test and keep- for my own purposes.

Water jugs or soaked newspaper/phonebooks is the easiest. A 55 gal barrel filled it with water or a shotbox filled with about 6-7 feet of cut and stacked cotton works too. Ballistic gel is a PITA, and I don't recommend it. Heating, mixing, keeping it refrigerated, having it turn to liquid when it's hot outside... Just a pain.

[SA Friday]

There's always an outside chance the third one was a Federal HST...

Ya, I was typing when he posted... I haven't seen a HST expanded before. I have seen a lot of Starfires and they look just like that. I'm thinking Fed liked the design...