official 10-22-2012 presidential debate thread

[sniper7]

Ridge im waiting to hear how a pipeline would create jobs in the united states if it went from canada to the gulf coast through several states.

Id love to see some sources

[KevDen2005]

It is funny to me to sit hear and listen to the propaganda being poised against oil and gas. Take it from someone who works in the oil & gas industry, that most of what Rucker is saying is purely false. I always have fun sitting back and listening about energy debates when many out side if this industry have not a clue what goes on day to day. We just site back and enjoy our label "Big Oil" ...

Since I know pretty much nothing of "Big Oil" can you give some examples?

[Mr_RoP]

Since I know pretty much nothing of "Big Oil" can you give some examples?

Well for example take anything and add "Big" to it and all of a sudden it becomes and axis of evil. We are just a small business trying to provide energy to America and support our family in the process. The only thing "big" in this company is my belly!

[KevDen2005]

Well for example take anything and add "Big" to it and all of a sudden it becomes and axis of evil. We are just a small business trying to provide energy to America and support our family in the process. The only thing "big" in this company is my belly!

I guess I was trying to ask, could you provide a few examples of what isn't false from Rucker. I haven't heard any of it and would probably disagree with Rucker anyway, but I am just curious.

[Mr_RoP]

The only thing that I could agree with is when he called oil & gas a commodity!

If business decisions dictated, then not so wrong. Oil and gasoline are commodities. We the people have nothing to say where the oil goes. We don't even have a say in where the workers to build the pipeline come from, if the contracts let allow for foreign (Canadian and Mexican, for example) workers. It's a Canadian company - why wouldn't they hire their own?

[Danimal]

Ridge im waiting to hear how a pipeline would create jobs in the united states if it went from canada to the gulf coast through several states.

Id love to see some sources

First it runs right through North Dakota where we are having an oil boom. Currently all oil produced in that region is taken by truck or train to Texas. Yes it is all shipped to Texas because the one refinery that they have there is running at maximum capacity. The pipeline was specifically designed to tie into the oil fields that we are developing domestically and cut costs and raise production drastically. It was a joint venture with oil producers all the way across america to streamline oil production because as of now they just have to stop and wait until the next train arrives.

Then when people hear pipeline they have no idea how intricate and maintenance intensive an oil pipeline is. There are pumping stations, reducing stations, tie ins, and all kinds of associated preventative maintenance like DC corrosion prevention systems that charge the pipe and prevent electrolytic corrosion if the pipe happens to lay in metal rich wet earth. All of these systems would have to be run and maintained every day even long after the line stops pumping oil. These are all jobs for Americans, and the ability to increase production in the domestic oil fields would also grow those communities, and growing communities means more jobs down to grocery stores and basic needs. So beyond the projects projected 5000 - 6000 permanent jobs, 20,000 temporary manufacturing and construction jobs there would be a secondary effect of increasing our domestic production lowering our gas prices a little and developing a stronger more unified oil production platform in the center of our nation.

There are huge problems with our oil production and refining system. Right now some refineries are running at max capacity, and the excess crude that we mine is more easily shipped over seas where they pay 5 times the price per barrel. Then there are some refineries that could increase production if they had an increased supply of oil, but the oil company with the surplus would be losing money to keep the oil here domestically, and the refinery can not afford to make up the difference in cost to get the oil shipped to them. This is all due to, you guessed it, government regulations. There has not been a new refinery built in the US since 1979, and it is not because we dont need them, it is because the companies are not only regulated to the point of it being prohibitively expensive to build, but they are actually paid not to build new refineries. Oil subsidies are to pay oil companies to keep oil here and refine it here for a specified price. Otherwise they would ship everything out because everyone else pays more for it than we do.

[ronaldrwl]

Ridge im waiting to hear how a pipeline would create jobs in the united states if it went from canada to the gulf coast through several states.

Id love to see some sources

We have some friends that own a portion of a oil pipeline. I don't know how many jobs are required but they have 24 hour monitoring and maintenance. It's pretty expensive to keep it running.

[sniper7]

Ridge, you get any of that?

Im waiting for your counter to all this info and how no jobs or benefits for America would be had from a pipeline.

[Danimal]

And of course it is a lot more complicated than that, but those are just some examples of the lies the government tells you and the difference in perspective that you get from being in industry. Mostly it is a bunch of small oil companies that have to find a way to make it through the bureaucratic red tape and sell a commodity where they will get the best money for it. I don't want to write a book on it here, but there really is so much out there if you do the research that will just make you sick.

[Rucker61]

What's ridiculous is that Ridge posted pure speculation as if it were solid known fact. The rationale for running the pipeline all the way down south was to get the oil to refineries, presumably so they could sell the products in the North American continent. The Canadians can already ship oil to other countries without an American pipeline. Does Canada have enough workforce to build the pipeline on their own? I don't think so.

What you think isn't necessarily a good argument. One, the decision to build was just postponed; the pipeline isn't cancelled. Two, it was bad timing (IMHO); coming so soon after the BP gulf spill, folks are a bit more sensitive to environmental concerns.

Can you make a financial case to build the pipeline and then sell all the product abroad rather than domestically? Sure you can -- you can also build 21st century military tactics around horse cavalry (which we actually did in isolated cases in Afghanistan) if you choose.

Two separate situations. Once the oil gets to a port or to a refinery, the market sets the conditions for any sale. Note that the US is a net exporter of gasoline. The financial case could vary day by day, depending upon the oil market.

Then again, Obama was more interested in sound bites and zingers than credible policy or demonstrated results so I can see why he'd rather talk about horses and bayonets than why he's telling the Navy and AF to live with less than their projections require

http://www.public-consultation.org/p..._May12_rpt.pdf

Interesting reading. A majority of Democrats and Republicans feel that the Defense budget should be reduced. Brings to mind something about "for the people, by the people..."

The Defense Secretary has also proposed significant cuts to the defense budget.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ence-cuts.html

Vice Presidential candidate Ryan is in favor of defense cuts:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162...-defense-cuts/

or why he went to a fundraiser immediately after our embassy spent 7 hours fighting for their lives or why his economy is still the second worst since the Great Depression despite having a filibuster-proof majority in both houses for two years...

A myth that's been debunked for some time.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did...-for-how-long/

Actual time with a majority: about 5 months, in two different periods.