official 10-22-2012 presidential debate thread

[Aloha_Shooter]

Cite?

Seriously? Unemployment over 10% versus 7.8%? Mortgage rates under 6% versus 13-16% (if you could even find a bank willing to write one)? Stagflation during the late 1970s meant you effectively LOST money by putting it in a normal savings account. Plentiful energy in 2007-2008 versus the energy crisis during Carter's administration? The fact I paid more for a gallon of gas under Carter than under Bush in inflation-adjusted dollars?

Anyone who was alive and conscious during 1977-1980 KNOWS the economy was worse then if they just sit back and think a bit. Like I said, do some research instead of repeating the worn empty spin nuggets.

[MrPrena]

Stagflation sucks.
Sounds about right, but I would like to add something.

During carter admin, it ws more of a supply shock on inelastic goods.
Where as right now, it is demand shockon oil.
In terms diesel and octane price, i would like to also add short term supply problem from bottleneck from refinary.

Seriously? Unemployment over 10% versus 7.8%? Mortgage rates under 6% versus 13-16% (if you could even find a bank willing to write one)? Stagflation during the late 1970s meant you effectively LOST money by putting it in a normal savings account. Plentiful energy in 2007-2008 versus the energy crisis during Carter's administration? The fact I paid more for a gallon of gas under Carter than under Bush in inflation-adjusted dollars?

Anyone who was alive and conscious during 1977-1980 KNOWS the economy was worse then if they just sit back and think a bit. Like I said, do some research instead of repeating the worn empty spin nuggets.

[sniper7]

Stagflation sucks.
Sounds about right, but I would like to add something.

During carter admin, it ws more of a supply shock on inelastic goods.
Where as right now, it is demand shockon oil.
In terms diesel and octane price, i would like to also add short term supply problem from bottleneck from refinary.

part of the bottleneck from the refinery problem is excessive regulation making it unprofitable to run several refineries. hell...delta airlines bought their own refinery in Trainer, PA to save on jet fuel. the plant and another up there in the east coast were shut down because they weren't making the "BIG OIL" any money. that "BIG OIL" only pulls profit margins around 2%. the only reason it is in the billions and people go ape shit over the numbers is due to the amount of oil that is used all over the world.

Now it is booming in a few states, obama denied the oil pipeline from Canada which took away tens of thousands of jobs from several states.

[Ridge]

obama denied the oil pipeline from Canada which took away tens of thousands of jobs from several states.

The oil pipeline was going from Canada straight to the gulf coast ports to be exported. We never would have seen anything from it.

[sniper7]

The oil pipeline was going from Canada straight to the gulf coast ports to be exported. We never would have seen anything from it.

source?

how would it possibly make it through the US without us seeing anything from it? No jobs at all? How is that possible

[GilpinGuy]

I missed most of the debate tonight. I heard about 15 mins of it on the radio and just yawned.

There was a conservative commentator I read earlier today (I forget who) who wrote that as long as Mitt held his ground and didn't totally crater that this debate would have little effect on things. Most folks are clueless on foreign policy anyway, so it makes sense to me.

[ChunkyMonkey]

source?

how would it possibly make it through the US without us seeing anything from it? No jobs at all? How is that possible

Ignore that one, Justin.

Ridge is saying that boiling oil sands, building a $7billion pipeline then pumping through it for 3000 miles to the gulf coast just to export it will save the oil company tons of money compare to the current method of trucking it to the west coast ports for the same reason.

[Bailey Guns]

The oil pipeline was going from Canada straight to the gulf coast ports to be exported. We never would have seen anything from it.

Ridiculous and wrong.

[Rucker61]

Ridiculous and wrong.

If business decisions dictated, then not so wrong. Oil and gasoline are commodities. We the people have nothing to say where the oil goes. We don't even have a say in where the workers to build the pipeline come from, if the contracts let allow for foreign (Canadian and Mexican, for example) workers. It's a Canadian company - why wouldn't they hire their own?

[ChunkyMonkey]

If business decisions dictated, then not so wrong. Oil and gasoline are commodities. We the people have nothing to say where the oil goes. We don't even have a say in where the workers to build the pipeline come from, if the contracts let allow for foreign (Canadian and Mexican, for example) workers. It's a Canadian company - why wouldn't they hire their own?

Speculative. One of the stipulations put onto Transcanada plan/contract is it is to hire local workers. The US State Department, which is siding w/ the White House (obviously) and must approve the multinational contract, has lowered its estimate to 5000 local jobs from 20000 local jobs previously estimated (read: political). So even if you use this low low end estimate, it still is 5000 more jobs locally. The indirect impact of 700000 barrels of Canadian oil is thousands more jobs at the US refineries as US gas production will increase by 5%.