Obama Was Complicit In The Killing Of Americans in Libya

[Bailey Guns]

There's no other way to put it. He should be arrested and charged with treason. I hate this man more and more every day. And I hate the major, liberal-dominated media news outlets even more for not giving this the proper coverage. Where will it end?

Obama Fires Top Admiral For Advocating Libyan Rescue?

According to this report, yesterday (27 October) Obama ordered the immediate removal of Rear Admiral Charles M. Gaouette from his command of the powerful Carrier Strike Group Three (CSG-3) currently located in the Middle East.

CSG-3 is one of five US Navy carrier strike groups currently assigned to the US Pacific Fleet. US Navy carrier strike groups are employed in a variety of roles, which involve gaining and maintaining sea control and projecting power ashore, as well as projecting naval airpower ashore.

The aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN-74) is the strike group’s current flagship, and as of 2012, other units assigned to Carrier Strike Group Three include Carrier Air Wing Nine; the guided-missile cruisers USS Mobile Bay (CG-53) and USS Antietam (CG-54); and the ships of Destroyer Squadron 21, the guided-missile destroyers USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG-108), USS Dewey (DDG-105), USS Kidd (DDG-100), and USS Milius (DDG-69).

US news reports on Obama’s unprecedented firing of a powerful US Navy Commander during wartime state that Admiral Gaouette’s removal was for “allegations of inappropriate leadership judgment” that arose during the strike group’s deployment to the Middle East.

This GRU report, however, states that Admiral Gaouette’s firing by President Obama was due to this strike force commander disobeying orders when he ordered his forces on 11 September to “assist and provide intelligence for” American military forces ordered into action by US Army General Carter Ham, who was then the commander of the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM), against terrorist forces attacking the American Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.


General Ham had been in command of the initial 2011 US-NATO military intervention in Libya who, like Admiral Gaouette, was fired by Obama. And as we can, in part, read from US military insider accounts of this growing internal conflict between the White House and US Military leaders:

“The information I heard today was that General [Carter] Ham as head of Africom received the same e-mails the White House received requesting help/support as the attack was taking place. General Ham immediately had a rapid response unit ready and communicated to the Pentagon that he had a unit ready.

General Ham then received the order to stand down. His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.”

Also, interesting call to Limbaugh's show:

[Teufelhund]

Sounds straight out of Red October.

Citizen's arrest? I'm in. You drive.

[Bailey Guns]

I wish.

[Rucker61]

Since when do military commanders expect to disobey orders of their superiors and get away with it? Was it an act of moral courage? I expect so. Can we let our military leaders get away with these types of actions? Not according to the oath we all took. Note that we don't have all of the information regarding the situation. But feel free to think so.

[Fmedges]

Since when do military commanders expect to disobey orders of their superiors and get away with it? Was it an act of moral courage? I expect so. Can we let our military leaders get away with these types of actions? Not according to the oath we all took. Note that we don't have all of the information regarding the situation. But feel free to think so.

We both know that the military can be as political as it gets. I believe if this turned out differently and this man's actions saved lives then he would be viewed as making the right decision. Unfortunately for the men killed and for him it didn't turn out that way.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Since when do military commanders expect to disobey orders of their superiors and get away with it? Was it an act of moral courage? I expect so. Can we let our military leaders get away with these types of actions? Not according to the oath we all took. Note that we don't have all of the information regarding the situation. But feel free to think so.

“I, (state your name), having been appointed a (rank) in the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foriegn and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Nothing in there about orders. The phrase "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice" is in the Oath of Enlistment, not Oath of Office.

Military commanders are taught to obey all legal orders -- and to question unethical ones. In fact, disobeying an immoral order is something that is covered repeatedly in Professional Military Education although students are also taught to be prepared to suffer the consequences of such disobedience.

PME case studies frequently point out the problem with not having complete information and seemingly-suicidal orders may in fact be necessary for the greater good and to save more lives than are being sacrificed so there aren't any stock answers. At this moment, I can't fathom any set of information that would justify abandoning the ambassador or other Americans under the publicly available information so far.

The problem WE have is that we don't have all the information so we don't know why the admiral was removed from command and the firing of Gen Ham is simply unsupported speculation so far. The caller in this case is providing additional information that make it more plausible (but not certain) someone may have been removed because he decided to an order to abandon US citizens was immoral and potentially illegal.

Having said all that, I'm astounded at your readiness to defend an order to abandon fellow Americans in an attack like this.

[USAFGopherMike]

Nothing in there about orders. The phrase "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice" is in the Oath of Enlistment, not Oath of Office.

Military commanders are taught to obey all legal orders -- and to question unethical ones. In fact, disobeying an immoral order is something that is covered repeatedly in Professional Military Education although students are also taught to be prepared to suffer the consequences of such disobedience.

PME case studies frequently point out the problem with not having complete information and seemingly-suicidal orders may in fact be necessary for the greater good and to save more lives than are being sacrificed so there aren't any stock answers. At this moment, I can't fathom any set of information that would justify abandoning the ambassador or other Americans under the publicly available information so far.

The problem WE have is that we don't have all the information so we don't know why the admiral was removed from command and the firing of Gen Ham is simply unsupported speculation so far. The caller in this case is providing additional information that make it more plausible (but not certain) someone may have been removed because he decided to an order to abandon US citizens was immoral and potentially illegal.

Having said all that, your readiness to defend an order to abandon fellow Americans in an attack like this leads me to believe you made the right decision to separate.

^ This is the most credible post in this thread. That said... The whole situation stinks of coverup. If you don't think that the administration and MSM is purposely avoiding it and giving it little consideration because of the election, you're an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to vote, own a gun, or drive because you're a hazard to yourself and others around you, not to mention the gene pool. Knowing how these things work, we're going to have to wait for these to General Officers to retire before we'll get the truth, and even then, it may never happen. CNN is running some bullshit story that an unnamed CIA spokesperson told them there was never a standdown order. If that were true, why were the two G.O.s releved?

[Bailey Guns]

I'm sorry. I missed the part where someone said it was permissible for military commanders to disobey orders from the civilians appointed over them.

The point of the thread was that:

• Obama, the lying SOB that he is, knew what was going on and made a conscious decision NOT to assist American citizens in Libya.
• In addition, the major media outlets are completely in the tank for Obama and are refusing to cover the story in detail.

You can now go back to your regularly scheduled defense of Obama.

[Rucker61]

I'm sorry. I missed the part where someone said it was permissible for military commanders to disobey orders from the civilians appointed over them.

Point granted. That said, do you feel that Obama was within his rights as commander in chief to remove a disobedient commander? Did you ever serve?

The point of the thread was that:

• Obama, the lying SOB that he is, knew what was going on and made a conscious decision NOT to assist American citizens in Libya.
• In addition, the major media outlets are completely in the tank for Obama and are refusing to cover the story in detail.

You can now go back to your regularly scheduled defense of Obama.

Man, you jump to a lot of conclusions with the bare minimum of anecdotes. You don't know everything that was going on, and you never will, but please go back to your constant tin-foil hat persecution.

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[Colorado Luckydog]

Did you ever serve?

Did you? If you did, you are one of the very very few that have served (or is currently serving) in our great military that would vote for our current Commander In Chief.

Our current Commander In Chief would let thousands of infidels die, rather than piss off one radical muslim.

He's a fucking idiot!!