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  1. #1
    Man In The Box jhood001's Avatar
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    Default Court OKs warrantless use of hidden surveillance cameras

    Hmmm.

    Court OKs warrantless use of hidden surveillance cameras

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...lance-cameras/

    Police are allowed in some circumstances to install hidden surveillance cameras on private property without obtaining a search warrant, a federal judge said yesterday.
    CNET has learned that U.S. District Judge William Griesbach ruled that it was reasonable for Drug Enforcement Administration agents to enter rural property without permission -- and without a warrant -- to install multiple "covert digital surveillance cameras" in hopes of uncovering evidence that 30 to 40 marijuana plants were being grown.
    This is the latest case to highlight how advances in technology are causing the legal system to rethink how Americans' privacy rights are protected by law. In January, the Supreme Court rejected warrantless GPS tracking after previously rejecting warrantless thermal imaging, but it has not yet ruled on warrantless cell phone tracking or warrantless use of surveillance cameras placed on private property without permission.
    Yesterday Griesbach adopted a recommendation by U.S. Magistrate Judge William Callahan dated October 9. That recommendation said that the DEA's warrantless surveillance did not violate the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and requires that warrants describe the place that's being searched.
    "The Supreme Court has upheld the use of technology as a substitute for ordinary police surveillance," Callahan wrote.
    Two defendants in the case, Manuel Mendoza and Marco Magana of Green Bay, Wis., have been charged with federal drug crimes after DEA agent Steven Curran claimed to have discovered more than 1,000 marijuana plants grown on the property, and face possible life imprisonment and fines of up to $10 million. Mendoza and Magana asked Callahan to throw out the video evidence on Fourth Amendment grounds, noting that "No Trespassing" signs were posted throughout the heavily wooded, 22-acre property owned by Magana and that it also had a locked gate.

    U.S. Attorney James Santelle, who argued that warrantless surveillance cameras on private property "does not violate the Fourth Amendment."
    (Credit: U.S. Department of Justice)
    Callahan based his reasoning on a 1984 Supreme Court case called Oliver v. United States, in which a majority of the justices said that "open fields" could be searched without warrants because they're not covered by the Fourth Amendment. What lawyers call "curtilage," on the other hand, meaning the land immediately surrounding a residence, still has greater privacy protections.
    "Placing a video camera in a location that allows law enforcement to record activities outside of a home and beyond protected curtilage does not violate the Fourth Amendment," Justice Department prosecutors James Santelle and William Lipscomb told Callahan.
    As digital sensors become cheaper and wireless connections become more powerful, the Justice Department's argument would allow police to install cameras on private property without court oversight -- subject only to budgetary limits and political pressure.
    About four days after the DEA's warrantless installation of surveillance cameras, a magistrate judge did subsequently grant a warrant. But attorneys for Mendoza and Magana noticed that the surveillance took place before the warrant was granted.
    "That one's actions could be recorded on their own property, even if the property is not within the curtilage, is contrary to society's concept of privacy," wrote Brett Reetz, Magana's attorney, in a legal filing last month. "The owner and his guest... had reason to believe that their activities on the property were not subject to video surveillance as it would constitute a violation of privacy."
    A jury trial has been scheduled for January 22.
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  2. #2
    I'm a dude, I swear! SuperiorDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhood001 View Post
    Hmmm.

    Court OKs warrantless use of hidden surveillance cameras

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...lance-cameras/
    Just shows how little our forefathers understood how technology would be used in the future. They didn't write it in therefore its free game. Because they didn't understand, today's government can do what they want.

  3. #3
    BADGE BUNNY Monky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorDG View Post
    Just shows how little our forefathers understood how technology would be used in the future. They didn't write it in therefore its free game. Because they didn't understand, today's government can do what they want.
    Pretty sure technology wasn't on their mind, it's not plausible to think they had a clue that we would be capable to have digital video cameras for surveillance. Tech has out paced the law and they are struggling to catch up.

    Laws are a lot harder to implement or change to keep pace with tech.

  4. #4
    Man In The Box jhood001's Avatar
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    While I agree with you both that technology is a big issue and currently resides in a gray area, in this case, trespass was required to get the technology into place.

    Trespassing and seeing criminal activity on imagery attained from planted cameras is no different than trespassing and seeing criminal activity with their own eyes.

    Total bullshit and I don't see how this can stand.
    One does not bear arms against a rabbit. -- Garry Wills

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhood001 View Post
    While I agree with you both that technology is a big issue and currently resides in a gray area, in this case, trespass was required to get the technology into place.

    Trespassing and seeing criminal activity on imagery attained from planted cameras is no different than trespassing and seeing criminal activity with their own eyes.

    Total bullshit and I don't see how this can stand.
    Agreed.
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  6. #6
    Grand Master Know It All Sawin's Avatar
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    What will scare folks even more is if anything captured on these illegally installed cameras is admissible as evidence in court...
    Please leave any relevant feedback here:
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  7. #7
    Grand Master Know It All hatidua's Avatar
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    IF, one of these cameras was to be destroyed by the land owner, I'm guessing said land owner would be on the hook for that as well?

  8. #8
    Machine Gunner merl's Avatar
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    have fun thinking about this decision in combination with the OK for drones in US airspace.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by merl View Post
    have fun thinking about this decision in combination with the OK for drones in US airspace.
    i.e.; the state of Washington! They're battling that very issue right now.

    http://www.king5.com/news/cities/sea...148339225.html

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...ington-border/

    http://nodroneswashington.blogspot.com/
    http://disciplejourney.com

    Make men large and strong and tyranny will bankrupt itself in making shackles for them.” – Rev. Henry Ward Beecher (1813-1887) US Abolitionist Preacher

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  10. #10
    Industry Partner BPTactical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhood001 View Post
    While I agree with you both that technology is a big issue and currently resides in a gray area, in this case, trespass was required to get the technology into place.

    Trespassing and seeing criminal activity on imagery attained from planted cameras is no different than trespassing and seeing criminal activity with their own eyes.

    Total bullshit and I don't see how this can stand.
    "Fruit of the Poison Tree"
    I.E. Evidence obtained by illegal means shall be inadmissible.
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