Instructor shoots AI

[TFOGGER]

One would think that there would be a protocol in place to ensure the shoot house was clear of friendlies before any live fire exercise began. Were they ignored or circumvented?

[Jeff350]

This. No such thing as an AD unless there's some sort of catastrophic and previously undocumented weapon failure. Otherwise everything is a an ND involving a human hand. Stop sugar coating shit.

Agreed. When I wrote AD I wasn't meaning to remove the blame from the shooter. He was negligent 100%.

[jerrymrc]

One would think that there would be a protocol in place to ensure the shoot house was clear of friendlies before any live fire exercise began. Were they ignored or circumvented?

Everyone should have been accounted for outside the place each time before someone entered with a loaded weapon. Since this is training the place should have been called out "Hot" before they moved in.

Almost sounds like there were two groups and one did not know what the other was doing.

[Mick-Boy]

My belief is that this is the ultimate teachable moment (I think we are in agreement here) and it should be dissected - after all if Sonny can fuck up, then we can ALL fuck up.

Frankly I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone from the "throw the loaded AK downrange to show how reliable it is" crowd to accidentally shoot someone. That dude (and frankly, any soviet/eastern european SOF guys that I've been around) had no business teaching CQB.

Want to learn how to get the shit kicked out of you? Russian and Eastern European SOF guys have that down. Those are some hard, hard dudes.

Want to learn tactical and technical proficiency? Seek instruction from someone who served in a unit that emphasizes those traits.

Hence my point about vetting your instructor. Just because someone was a Marine/SEAL/SWAT/SF/Etc. doesn't mean they actually understand the concepts behind what they did. It sure as hell doesn't mean they should be teaching it.

[Mick-Boy]

One would think that there would be a protocol in place to ensure the shoot house was clear of friendlies before any live fire exercise began. Were they ignored or circumvented?

Jerrymrc is absolutely correct.

Live fire shoot house evolutions are an invaluable training tool. They also carry with them their own safety issues. There are ways to mitigate these issues (Jerrymrc covered the obvious) which were clearly being ignored in this instance.

CQB is not a flat range with walls and a roof. If you treat it that way, sooner or later someone is going to get hurt.

[Clint45]

Want to learn how to get the shit kicked out of you? Russian and Eastern European SOF guys have that down. Those are some hard, hard dudes.

I've heard some CRAZY stories about how they used to train Spetsnaz soldiers. Shit that would get US instructors thrown in prison for life if they even went half that far in a training exercise: Setting the obstacle course on fire, locking troops in rooms with attack dogs, balancing armed grenades on troop's helmets. That is a whole new level of crazy.

[dwalker460]

Well lets not forget that the pistol jockey pulled the trigger three times and scored three hits on a live target. AND according to the above, he KNEW they were there as he set it up, so WTF was going through his mind that he lets three rounds off?

[brutal]

Well lets not forget that the pistol jockey pulled the trigger three times and scored three hits on a live target. AND according to the above, he KNEW they were there as he set it up, so WTF was going through his mind that he lets three rounds off?

RIF fail. Reread the post.

No excuse but let's keep the facts straight

[dwalker460]

I One AI and one student in the second room discussing previous target engagements. Sonny Puzikas enters first room engages targets (no lights). AI and student do not ID that they are there. Sonny goes into room two, knows where tagets are because he set it up, engages target with failure drill (AI is standing in front of target. Student kneeling). Two to abdomen, one to bicep. 18D on scene stabilizes AI. AI Will live.

Reading IS fundemental...

[Jer]

Did someone seriously just say anyone can make a mistake in regards to firearms? GTFO! This type of behavior is unacceptable with the topic of firearms.