Arizona gun store won't sell to Obama voters

[IShouldDoThisAllTheTime]

Really? name calling because you are not Tolerant & Diverse. Guess we know who you voted for.
HEY ASHTON, LOOK I FOUND ANOTHER O SUPPORTER ( Or someone who shares ideology) AND NEVER ASKED WHO THEY VOTED FOR.

Yeah, you got me. I'm probably also vegetarian and left handed and a fag. Now knock it off.

Look, 50% of the country didn't take your/my/our/whoever's arguments seriously. We need to be *growing* the shooting community, and that means not alienating people who aren't already a part of it.

You know what the self-image of an immigrant rights activist is? A person who cares about individual human dignity. You know what the self-image of a self-defense rights activist is? A person who cares about individual human dignity. There is a common language that can be spoken here, and this us-versus-them mentality is bullshit and gets us nowhere.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't infantile? DON'T throw public tantrums.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't ignorant? DON'T assume you know everything -- or even anything -- about them because of how they react to your tantrum.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't bullies? DON'T call them incapable of exercising a fundamental constitutionally guaranteed human right.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't paranoid clingers? DO drop the siege mentality.

The shooting community is its own worst enemy when it comes to PR, and its shit like this at the core of it. This behavior only appeals to the single demographic that needs NO outreach from us.


If you're worried about another AWB, or mail-order ammo ban, or whatever, and GIVEN that an Obama win already puts us all behind the curve on these fights, we as a group need to STOP making the anti's job easier. Don't act like a goddamn clown, and don't cheer on those among us who do.

[MrPrena]

Great,,,,, this got into a political debate thread.


Just remember how we lost this election.
Demographics. Our party did not do a better job to reach people in certain community.
It was about 12-15 counties in swing states really got us.
Although I would love to criticize democrats, I am gonna try to convince them to come to the RIGHT SIDE.

Before 2016, I am planning to have 4-5 democrats to convert to republican. It will be much easier, because our economy will probably go to a crap..

[Whistler]

Yeah, you got me. I'm probably also vegetarian and left handed and a fag. Now knock it off.

Look, 50% of the country didn't take your/my/our/whoever's arguments seriously. We need to be *growing* the shooting community, and that means not alienating people who aren't already a part of it.

You know what the self-image of an immigrant rights activist is? A person who cares about individual human dignity. You know what the self-image of a self-defense rights activist is? A person who cares about individual human dignity. There is a common language that can be spoken here, and this us-versus-them mentality is bullshit and gets us nowhere.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't infantile? DON'T throw public tantrums.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't ignorant? DON'T assume you know everything -- or even anything -- about them because of how they react to your tantrum.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't bullies? DON'T call them incapable of exercising a fundamental constitutionally guaranteed human right.

You know how we convince "them" that "we" aren't paranoid clingers? DO drop the siege mentality.

The shooting community is its own worst enemy when it comes to PR, and its shit like this at the core of it. This behavior only appeals to the single demographic that needs NO outreach from us.


If you're worried about another AWB, or mail-order ammo ban, or whatever, and GIVEN that an Obama win already puts us all behind the curve on these fights, we as a group need to STOP making the anti's job easier. Don't act like a goddamn clown, and don't cheer on those among us who do.

Not to be repetitive but how's that strategy been working for the last 40-50 years? While I respect your opinion on the best approach and even agree with some of your thoughts on a personal level, our unfettered access to firearms, ammunition and places to shoot are diminished daily as we "hold the moral high ground" in the face of emotional, groundless accusation and falsehood. The opposition is louder, they draw more attention and invoke more emotion, theirs is obviously a more effective strategy or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Switch your argument for a moment and direct it at the anti-gun crowd, how many of them would agree with or embrace your approach? I think I know the answer because I see their "tantrums", "ignorance", "bullying" "siege mentality" in every one of these conversations including your quaint parenting reprimand.

In a Utopian world we might be able to engage in meaningful dialog grounded in facts without name calling and baseless accusation but that's not this world. In reviewing the state of battle and the effectiveness of various strategies Sun Tzu might advocate adopting that of the enemy as a more effective counter strategy.

The firearms community was well represented in years past with school sanctioned and other youth shooting events, no one thought twice of a boy walking along the side of a road with a shotgun draped over his arm. All the sterling examples of safe and recreational gun ownership conveyed the message you promote and were universally ignored in preference of uninformed emotion and opinion. Not uninformed because no one took the time to send a positive message, uninformed because they just don''t care about or respect anyone's rights or opinions contrary to their own narrow view of the world at large. I don't lobby to diminish or restrict their rights under the Constitution even though I may disagree personally and I don't want to fight with them at all, I want them to have the same level of tolerance for me that I afford them and leave my rights alone.

[Whistler]

It might also prove to non-gun-owners that gun-owners are absolute dickheads.

Really? It's okay for them to distort & ignore the facts to legislate infringement of my rights and to vote their individual welfare ahead of that of the country but he's a dickhead for taking a stand on what he believes in? Bit of a double standard there. I try to be a goodwill ambassador for the firearms community however I don't coddle Liberal idiots either. You can't change some people's minds they will raise their voices and stamp their feet while spewing tolerant rebukes of "racism" and "bitter clinger". Spite and pride is trying to take my rights based on your emotional response, they don't like them so I "don't need them".

This board is filled with posts advocating respect for the business owner in the context of concealed carry and as many touting the business owner right to run his business as he sees fit, including extorting employee political decisions. While we might hold the opinion that it is our responsibility to promote the positive aspects of our sport at every opportunity the fact is no such responsibility exists. We do it because we choose to and each in our own way, maybe he perceives it as a wake up call and overall positive in sparking dialog and debate.

That is one of the great things about America that hasn't been stripped from us yet; the right to be as clever & informed or as closed-minded and ignorant as we choose to be. It's also why ice cream doesn't just come in chocolate.

[Ashton]

Well there's 'yer problem... reread the bold part over & over until "pride" starts to come out "values" or "ethics" then perhaps you'll "get it". This may take you a very long time, weeks or even months, but stay the course and we'll chat when you return. I'll even give you a couple hints (below) to help you along;

When a person of character and moral fiber takes a stand on an issue despite the unassailable Liberal emotional characterization it may not be "pride", "ignorance" or "spite" as shrilly screeched by those of your ilk but simply something they don't recognize or do and fear - a man of principal.

An example to illustrate the point; "rich business owners are firing people out of spite 'cuz Obama won!" Nuff' said...

Ok. I couldn't help but read my whole thread... and I added those words... So they're my words... Not anyone elses. Had you taken the time to actually read the article you'd know that they weren't in the article and you wouldn't be highlighting them as some tactic like I don't understand the things I said. Obviously I know that one would put his life, family, and well being before his pride because I typed it. It's how I was raised. Now get off your sideways rant and lets get on topic.

[Whistler]

Ok. I couldn't help but read my whole thread... and I added those words... So they're my words... Not anyone elses. Had you taken the time to actually read the article you'd know that they weren't in the article and you wouldn't be highlighting them as some tactic like I don't understand the things I said. Obviously I know that one would put his life, family, and well being before his pride because I typed it. It's how I was raised. Now get off your sideways rant and lets get on topic.

Yes I read the entire article otherwise I would have made no comment at all. I am well aware they are "your words" and that was my point though forgive the attempt to be facetious, it was obviously wasted.

It was not a "tactic" or implying "you didn't understand the things you said", it was specifically your characterization of his actions as "pride" versus any other more laudable attribute. You response reinforces my point that you simply "don't get it".

Let me be blunt; it was in direct response to your negative spin of a positive trait (principals) and attempting to communicate your cynical perception of his motivation. It was on topic and specific to your post, you misunderstood and responded with yet another mis-characterization. How's that for a sideways rant?