Arizona gun store won't sell to Obama voters

[IShouldDoThisAllTheTime]

Not to be repetitive but how's that strategy been working for the last 40-50 years?

I can only speak to what has worked for me, personally. I know a LOT of sensitive vegan bike riding Boulder/Seattle/SF types. I've learned that people who care about human dignity really do respond to the self-defense/firearms argument when presented from that angle. But if you're doing a really good impersonation of an overbearing bully with something to prove, you've lost them.

Think about it this way: are you going to give more credence to discussions of vegetarian diet when it's coming from some screeching dreadlocked waify chick looking for an excuse to splash you with red paint, or when it's coming from Mac Danzig?

I've had really good results talking to be as if we're all sane adults. It's not universally successful, but name something (other than the MAN STOPPER 45) that is. On the other hand, if you start out talking to someone as an enemy, guess what happens?

[Ronin13]

I can only speak to what has worked for me, personally. I know a LOT of sensitive vegan bike riding Boulder/Seattle/SF types. I've learned that people who care about human dignity really do respond to the self-defense/firearms argument when presented from that angle. But if you're doing a really good impersonation of an overbearing bully with something to prove, you've lost them.

Think about it this way: are you going to give more credence to discussions of vegetarian diet when it's coming from some screeching dreadlocked waify chick looking for an excuse to splash you with red paint, or when it's coming from Mac Danzig?

I've had really good results talking to be as if we're all sane adults. It's not universally successful, but name something (other than the MAN STOPPER 45) that is. On the other hand, if you start out talking to someone as an enemy, guess what happens?

I don't think you're understanding what Whistler is saying here... Which by the way, well put! The point he's making is that we've been trying the mature adult approach and it gets us nowhere, so maybe we need to appeal to what they (by "they" I mean the loud-mouth liberal anti's) understand, emotion and extremes. On a one-on-one basis, yes, most people will be sane, rational folks, but you have those exceptions, the ones that do jump head first into argumentative talk against guns that won't. When talking about that kind of anti, you have to understand that they don't want tolerance or sanity when discussing the "evil black guns," they want to be right, and they believe they are right, second amendment be damned. They believe the 2nd is this ancient part of our bill of rights, that in a modern "civilized" society has no place. I've had discussions with people who see no rational argument for carrying or even owning firearms, you try to present them with factual evidence and they dismiss it as if you got it from some extremist blog, or are "living in a scary fantasy world." Worse, they claim you got it from the biggest lie of all "Fox News!" AHHH! You must deal with the most friendly of people who are willing to accept differing views. I approach these people with a responsible, reasonable, and calm demeanor, and still they resort to name-calling, and claims that guns are bad mmkay... God forbid I bring up the actual fact that Police rarely arrive as the crime is being committed, they usually show up when the person involved becomes the "victim."

[IShouldDoThisAllTheTime]

The point he's making is that we've been trying the mature adult approach and it gets us nowhere

As demonstrated by ever-dwindling number of shall-issue states? By SCOTUS ruling that the Second Amendment is a collective right and doesn't affect state or local law? By campaign spending limits being upheld despite First Amendment concerns?

I think the premise that we've gotten nowhere is crap. It's a mixed bag, but that's life.

so maybe we need to appeal to what they (by "they" I mean the loud-mouth liberal anti's) understand, emotion and extremes.

Why? You'll never reach them anyway. Because they're being emotional.

It's the vast majority of more or less rational people in the middle trying to make sense of the world who matter, and those people -- those VOTERS -- don't want to see more poo flinging. These are the folks who find phrasing like "common sense gun laws" so appealing. They're tired of powerfully emoted bullshit and just want a realistic option that works. That antis have made a strong play to hijack the "reasonable" position is the biggest external challenge we have to face.

IMO it's emotion and hysterics that lost "us" the election. The Tea Party rode in on an economic mandate in 2010, then immediately switched course and started fighting the culture wars. That looks awfully unfocused and emotional and untrustworthy to the great more or less rational middle. We could have spent the last two years being focused and effective, but we didn't do that, so the election went to the team with the best PR team.

IMO.

[Adawg38]

He is making a statement...freedom of speech in my eye. If you really think about it when you go to a store and they have the "No Firearms" sign it's not only saying you cannot carry firearms into this store but if you do we will not see you as a customer and you are not welcome here. I know they are on 2 different levels but I see them as virtually the same even though selling your service to someone is a choice but to own and carry a firearm is your right. It's his right and if he doesn't care if he loses the business obviously he can afford it. Whether I think it's stupid or not if you don't like it shop somewhere else right?

[Ashton]

I should have replied to this thread earlier before I let it go on too long.... Because I'm too lazy to ready all the other posts. Discrimination is something that in my head needs to be cut off at the pass. I believe there is a huge difference between a service and a transaction. IMHO a gun deal is a transaction. Add in advertising and IMHO it's no different then going to walmart for an item and them refusing to sell you that item when you have the cash right there because of some discriminating factor that's not posted. Services require work, trust, and mutual agreement... A transaction is purely financial and I stand by my guns... If a purely financial transaction that is advertised WITHOUT contingencies or signs. I'd sue. You let some discrimination go on and next thing we know everything discriminated against... If someone has clear signs posted, and the person knows they're not welcome then that's their bad. It's like costcos no gun policy... It's posted.

[Ashton]

Well there's 'yer problem... reread the bold part over & over until "pride" starts to come out "values" or "ethics" then perhaps you'll "get it". This may take you a very long time, weeks or even months, but stay the course and we'll chat when you return. I'll even give you a couple hints (below) to help you along;

When a person of character and moral fiber takes a stand on an issue despite the unassailable Liberal emotional characterization it may not be "pride", "ignorance" or "spite" as shrilly screeched by those of your ilk but simply something they don't recognize or do and fear - a man of principal.

An example to illustrate the point; "rich business owners are firing people out of spite 'cuz Obama won!" Nuff' said...

Ok. I couldn't help but read my whole thread... and I added those words... So they're my words... Not anyone elses. Had you taken the time to actually read the article you'd know that they weren't in the article and you wouldn't be highlighting them as some tactic like I don't understand the things I said. Obviously I know that one would put his life, family, and well being before his pride because I typed it. It's how I was raised. Now get off your sideways rant and lets get on topic.

[Ashton]

Sure you can...just ask 'em.



Thanks for doing your part to re-elect Obama



For fuck's sake....

You can ask them but they don't have to disclose. I'm glad I did my part to not elect either of the two evils. But I voted on other things that actually meant something to me. And yes. I'd be interested in when walmart doesn't take your legal american tender because you need your charmin toilet paper but they discriminate against you for some reason.

[Ashton]

So you would go to court because someone who disagrees with you will not provide a service? I better sell some ammo so i can make sure you stay put, and don't try screwing with an independent business owner. Better yet i see a handgun he has 4 sale. Looks like i'm off the the post office 1st thing tues morn.
Sounds like you checked off O/B too

I'm hoping someone hacked Ashton's account.

IMHO there is a huge difference between providing a service and a transaction. See other post. I wouldn't sue some random business owner because he didn't like me and was providing a service? I would sue a business owner who advertised a price and I came in to TRANSACT business in less then a few mins and was turned away for BS reasons. I have LEGAL TENDER. Accept it or face the consequences.

[spqrzilla]

Discrimination isn't illegal. We all discriminate all the time.

Discrimination based upon protected categories under the law, in protected subjects, is illegal. "BS" reasons, if not prohibited by law, are not a cause of action.

[Ashton]

Discrimination isn't illegal. We all discriminate all the time.

Discrimination based upon protected categories under the law, in protected subjects, is illegal. "BS" reasons, if not prohibited by law, are not a cause of action.

OK. I won't lie. When I see a lowered truck with chrome wheels I think mexican, when I see a escalade with chrome wheels I think blacks, and when I see a farm truck I think white farmer / mexican cowboy working for a white man.

I'm not suggesting it is illegal. However, this specific category has been protected in a state before. So it's not like I'm just pulling it out of my ass. If you want someone out because they stink, fart, are ugly, loud and get rid of clientele... Go for it. Fact is there is case law which was voted for even if in a different state that affirms that this is a problem.

At the end of the day... Given todays society if you try to supress this persons beliefs, whether it be race, gender, color, sexual, etc... You're looking for a war.