Drama in Evergreen proof society is deteriorating...

[Teufelhund]

I certainly don't agree with the position of those opposing the training facility. As JM pointed out, I just think Ronin's statement is a little hypocritical.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Id somewhat agree, but say it depends on the circumstances. Sort of like buying a house near an airport, then complaining as the area grows that the airport builds more buildings, taller, and air traffic increases, causing more noise. Hmmm, stapleton?

You buy next to a fire dept, then get upset when the budget allows to improve the training available? And to utilize more of their property. Sorry, no sympathy here. Only thing I could see is ask the department to do trainings with the facility outside of schools operating hours. And Ill bet they would agree, even before all the drama.

All these groups do is waste money and time. In the end, they still lose. We have a group fighting a radio tower to be used for emergency communications, because the radio coverage in the area is lousy currently. And a group has been fighting it. Nevermind that from any paved road or house, WORST case you'd be able to see what would look like a taller tree. But fight it they will do. The real reasons come down to hating cell phone companies, and corporations, nothing to do with the emergency towers purpose. Yup, makes no sense at all.

That tower is going to block my view of Sandy Pants Peak, sir! I paid good money to be able to see Sandy Pants Peak from my 1 bedroom loft above a Chinese food place!

[birddog]

Just got a letter in the mail today from the fire chief about this. Sounds like its a go and for good reason.

using other people's building sucks for the above reasons but you also have to pay rent for the building for the day, and some require you to pay for an agency provided safety officer to watch your group and ensure you are not wrecking their building. The letter I got states that Evergreen trains every Monday, you can only imagine what fuel and transport costs are to go to Denver for that.

In a community like Evergreen that is comprised of volunteers they will most likely only be burning on the weekend anyway. School will be out then and you would be aloof to think that they hadn't already taken that into account. Most of the training that building sees anyway won't be live fire anyway.

i say go for it and quit whining wankers!!!

[Ronin13]

Funny... Sounds like gun owners all over the country... But it's ok if gun owners do it, right?

I'm just being a jackass... But that does sound like what gun owners do all the time. We just have the 2A on our side is all...

You can't really make that argument- gun owners are backed by the US Constitution... these people are fighting this without cause. It's easier to compare to people trying to fight Obama's reelection, granted there was rampant fraud, but nothing will be done with it, so we need to admit we lost and move on with our mission, getting someone better next time around, pressuring our side to do right, etc. In this instance, these folks need to realize that the training facility is going in, they lost that battle, now they need to focus on making sure the FD practices safety and prudence, which they will, but it never hurts to have the community be active in keeping those who serve in check (kind of like how modern society is always having that shred of oversight with LEOs and .mil).

Just got a letter in the mail today from the fire chief about this. Sounds like its a go and for good reason.

using other people's building sucks for the above reasons but you also have to pay rent for the building for the day, and some require you to pay for an agency provided safety officer to watch your group and ensure you are not wrecking their building. The letter I got states that Evergreen trains every Monday, you can only imagine what fuel and transport costs are to go to Denver for that.

In a community like Evergreen that is comprised of volunteers they will most likely only be burning on the weekend anyway. School will be out then and you would be aloof to think that they hadn't already taken that into account. Most of the training that building sees anyway won't be live fire anyway.

i say go for it and quit whining wankers!!!

Actually it would be Monday evenings- that's when the FD does their training usually, but still after school is out. And the chief has already stated that they're only doing this training once a month. The FD does burn building training down the hill on weekends because Monday nights are impossible due to time constraints. And yes, it costs a lot not just money, but time and training (they only do burn building training about twice a year, and not everyone goes).

My father spoke at one of the meetings and pretty much said these guys give up a Saturday to go train, they leave Station 2 at about 6:30AM and train all day. They come back around 5PM, clean up, put gear away, refill air bottles, and get home around 7. Then what happens if they get a call out at 8? Their family will look at that and hate that he's been gone all day and is going again, will they ever get family time?

[JM Ver. 2.0]

You can't really make that argument- gun owners are backed by the US Constitution... these people are fighting this without cause. It's easier to compare to people trying to fight Obama's reelection, granted there was rampant fraud, but nothing will be done with it, so we need to admit we lost and move on with our mission, getting someone better next time around, pressuring our side to do right, etc. In this instance, these folks need to realize that the training facility is going in, they lost that battle, now they need to focus on making sure the FD practices safety and prudence, which they will, but it never hurts to have the community be active in keeping those who serve in check (kind of like how modern society is always having that shred of oversight with LEOs and .mil).

Actually it would be Monday evenings- that's when the FD does their training usually, but still after school is out. And the chief has already stated that they're only doing this training once a month. The FD does burn building training down the hill on weekends because Monday nights are impossible due to time constraints. And yes, it costs a lot not just money, but time and training (they only do burn building training about twice a year, and not everyone goes).

My father spoke at one of the meetings and pretty much said these guys give up a Saturday to go train, they leave Station 2 at about 6:30AM and train all day. They come back around 5PM, clean up, put gear away, refill air bottles, and get home around 7. Then what happens if they get a call out at 8? Their family will look at that and hate that he's been gone all day and is going again, will they ever get family time?

I wasn't making an argument... I was being a jackass...

[PugnacAutMortem]

I wasn't making an argument... I was being a jackass...

Honesty is always the best policy!

[Ronin13]

I wasn't making an argument... I was being a jackass...

Fair enough...
And Pugnac's comment on honesty reminds me of Carlin's take on Bill Clinton: "Clinton- 'I'm completely full of shit, how do you like me now!?' Well, at least he's honest!"

[brutal]

This isn't an underdog scenario though, this is a we didn't get our way so we are just going to vote no confidence on the board until we get one that does what we want. Oh and when our shit catches on fire and people haven't had the opportunity to train properly we will blame the FD for failing. It is a double edged sword and eventually you trip and fall on it.

I don't disagree it's a stupid battle against a more worthy cause, but isn't this what democracy is all about? Isn't this what we tried to do to oust Obama?

FWIW, we went through something similar a few years ago, that was all just a big waste of time, effort, and money. A select few tried to petition Parker to annex our subdivision. The majority were clearly and vocally against annexation. Yahoo groups went up, yard signs went up, YES group sued NO group for "campaign finance violations" (related to yard sign pass-thru costs no less), etc. etc. etc. and all the NO group was really trying to do other than block a stupid and unwanted annexation, was keep Parker from unnecessarily spending $10-15K on a ballot that was going to fail anyway. Push came to shove, Parker dropped the coin and the results? Something like 340 against annexation, 22 for. They exercised their right to fight for what they believed was in their best interest (damn everyone else and the facts) and lost. At least they went away quietly with their tails between their legs, hopefully never to return.

[Ronin13]

Resurrecting this thread for an important update- RECALL FAILS, All EVPD board members retain their positions in defeat of recall measure, each board member got around 6600 votes to favor them staying in, and around 1300 votes to be recalled. Not surprising considering most of the town supports the fire department, and the NO RECALL campaign was much more organized than the recall campaign was.

[wreave]

Good news, except for the wasted expense to taxpayers.