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  1. #1
    Sig Fantastic Ronin13's Avatar
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    Kraven has it right.
    As it stands right now (I'm sure the majority on here know where Evergreen is) the only training they get at the level they're seeking with this new facility is either DFD's training building out at Stapleton, or West Metro's facility. Problem is it takes all day, they have to transport personnel and equipment early in the morning (usually on a Saturday), then train all day, then bring it all back up here and clean up and store everything. Oh, also, I might have forgotten to mention, Evergreen has an all volunteer fire dept.

    This has been people complaining for months about something they either know little about, or just don't care, they want things their way. The FD has compromised so much already and even that is not acceptable. These idiots won't quit until the FD agrees to not build the facility or they get a new board that may or may not do what they want (and we run the risk of having a board that knows nothing of fire protection and totally screws the pooch). These current members only have the community's best interest in mind, but the neighbors are idiots and don't see the logic here.
    Last edited by Ronin13; 12-12-2012 at 17:25.
    "There is no news in the truth, and no truth in the news."
    "The revolution will not be televised... Instead it will be filmed from multiple angles via cell phone cameras, promptly uploaded to YouTube, Tweeted about, and then shared on Facebook, pending a Wi-Fi connection."

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin13 View Post
    So there has been an ongoing issue up here in Evergreen for quite a while now. I'll try to keep this as short as possible...
    The Evergreen Fire Protection District decided about 2 years ago that they wanted to install a four story training facility on the Station 2 campus (for those familiar with Evergreen, it's the Bergen Park station up near King Soopers), aka a "burn building" for structure fire training. Once the proposal got released for public dissemination many residents blew their lid. This occurred shortly after the fire up in Conifer earlier this year. The plans got put on hold until the fire district could get a higher number of 'approval' from the residents. The whole hoopla was started by a somewhat famous journalist (I won't name names) who used to cover Shuttle launches that happens to live in the area, but not in the immediate area near the station. He sided with the anti-burn building folks, who by now had set up a "Ban The Burn Building" Facebook page. Their arguments against were that it would be an eye sore, it posed a danger to the immediate community as there would be open flames used in the building (duh!), it posed a danger to children as an elementary school property butts up to the station property and that smoke was a concern, and what they didn't say, but those of us who were for it knew what they meant, this was a NIMBY issue (Not In My Back Yard). So the board of directors with the FD decided to compromise. The building was reduced to 3 stories (equivalent to the station height), the theatrical smoke would be re-examined, and they held several meetings to inform the public that since this training facility would be at a fire station there was extremely minimal risk to the community. Several meetings and several discussions later, the district decided to go ahead with the facility and include the changes to better appease the angry neighbors. The FD even got approval from the county, which was unnecessary.

    Problem solved, right? Wrong. Suddenly, feeling like they won't take no for an answer and refusing to accept the consolations given by the fire district, a group of these angry neighbors have decided to petition to have a recall election of the board members. Estimates by the county show that this will cost the tax payers in the Evergreen Fire District $70,000 to have a recall election and campaign for new board members. Even today the unnamed journalist published an op-ed piece in the local paper basically saying "we lost, now drop it." But they continue to fight the FD. It's so sad in our modern society that if people disagree with something they can't just let bygones be bygones and as that old cliche goes "agree to disagree," no, they have to fight it tooth and nail until they get their way, like a spoiled little child. I see so much of this all the time, and this here is a prime example of this "we lost, now just drop it" mentality becoming extinct in favor of a never accept defeat and fight until you get your way mentality.
    Funny... Sounds like gun owners all over the country... But it's ok if gun owners do it, right?

    I'm just being a jackass... But that does sound like what gun owners do all the time. We just have the 2A on our side is all...

  3. #3
    Sig Fantastic Ronin13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0 View Post
    Funny... Sounds like gun owners all over the country... But it's ok if gun owners do it, right?

    I'm just being a jackass... But that does sound like what gun owners do all the time. We just have the 2A on our side is all...
    You can't really make that argument- gun owners are backed by the US Constitution... these people are fighting this without cause. It's easier to compare to people trying to fight Obama's reelection, granted there was rampant fraud, but nothing will be done with it, so we need to admit we lost and move on with our mission, getting someone better next time around, pressuring our side to do right, etc. In this instance, these folks need to realize that the training facility is going in, they lost that battle, now they need to focus on making sure the FD practices safety and prudence, which they will, but it never hurts to have the community be active in keeping those who serve in check (kind of like how modern society is always having that shred of oversight with LEOs and .mil).
    Quote Originally Posted by birddog View Post
    Just got a letter in the mail today from the fire chief about this. Sounds like its a go and for good reason.

    using other people's building sucks for the above reasons but you also have to pay rent for the building for the day, and some require you to pay for an agency provided safety officer to watch your group and ensure you are not wrecking their building. The letter I got states that Evergreen trains every Monday, you can only imagine what fuel and transport costs are to go to Denver for that.

    In a community like Evergreen that is comprised of volunteers they will most likely only be burning on the weekend anyway. School will be out then and you would be aloof to think that they hadn't already taken that into account. Most of the training that building sees anyway won't be live fire anyway.

    i say go for it and quit whining wankers!!!
    Actually it would be Monday evenings- that's when the FD does their training usually, but still after school is out. And the chief has already stated that they're only doing this training once a month. The FD does burn building training down the hill on weekends because Monday nights are impossible due to time constraints. And yes, it costs a lot not just money, but time and training (they only do burn building training about twice a year, and not everyone goes).

    My father spoke at one of the meetings and pretty much said these guys give up a Saturday to go train, they leave Station 2 at about 6:30AM and train all day. They come back around 5PM, clean up, put gear away, refill air bottles, and get home around 7. Then what happens if they get a call out at 8? Their family will look at that and hate that he's been gone all day and is going again, will they ever get family time?
    Last edited by Ronin13; 12-13-2012 at 11:08.
    "There is no news in the truth, and no truth in the news."
    "The revolution will not be televised... Instead it will be filmed from multiple angles via cell phone cameras, promptly uploaded to YouTube, Tweeted about, and then shared on Facebook, pending a Wi-Fi connection."

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin13 View Post
    You can't really make that argument- gun owners are backed by the US Constitution... these people are fighting this without cause. It's easier to compare to people trying to fight Obama's reelection, granted there was rampant fraud, but nothing will be done with it, so we need to admit we lost and move on with our mission, getting someone better next time around, pressuring our side to do right, etc. In this instance, these folks need to realize that the training facility is going in, they lost that battle, now they need to focus on making sure the FD practices safety and prudence, which they will, but it never hurts to have the community be active in keeping those who serve in check (kind of like how modern society is always having that shred of oversight with LEOs and .mil).

    Actually it would be Monday evenings- that's when the FD does their training usually, but still after school is out. And the chief has already stated that they're only doing this training once a month. The FD does burn building training down the hill on weekends because Monday nights are impossible due to time constraints. And yes, it costs a lot not just money, but time and training (they only do burn building training about twice a year, and not everyone goes).

    My father spoke at one of the meetings and pretty much said these guys give up a Saturday to go train, they leave Station 2 at about 6:30AM and train all day. They come back around 5PM, clean up, put gear away, refill air bottles, and get home around 7. Then what happens if they get a call out at 8? Their family will look at that and hate that he's been gone all day and is going again, will they ever get family time?
    I wasn't making an argument... I was being a jackass...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0 View Post
    I wasn't making an argument... I was being a jackass...
    Honesty is always the best policy!

  6. #6
    Sig Fantastic Ronin13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0 View Post
    I wasn't making an argument... I was being a jackass...
    Fair enough...
    And Pugnac's comment on honesty reminds me of Carlin's take on Bill Clinton: "Clinton- 'I'm completely full of shit, how do you like me now!?' Well, at least he's honest!"
    "There is no news in the truth, and no truth in the news."
    "The revolution will not be televised... Instead it will be filmed from multiple angles via cell phone cameras, promptly uploaded to YouTube, Tweeted about, and then shared on Facebook, pending a Wi-Fi connection."

  7. #7
    Machine Gunner Teufelhund's Avatar
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    I certainly don't agree with the position of those opposing the training facility. As JM pointed out, I just think Ronin's statement is a little hypocritical.
    "America is at that awkward stage: It's too late to work within the system, and too early to shoot the bastards."
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  8. #8
    Machine Gunner birddog's Avatar
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    Just got a letter in the mail today from the fire chief about this. Sounds like its a go and for good reason.

    using other people's building sucks for the above reasons but you also have to pay rent for the building for the day, and some require you to pay for an agency provided safety officer to watch your group and ensure you are not wrecking their building. The letter I got states that Evergreen trains every Monday, you can only imagine what fuel and transport costs are to go to Denver for that.

    In a community like Evergreen that is comprised of volunteers they will most likely only be burning on the weekend anyway. School will be out then and you would be aloof to think that they hadn't already taken that into account. Most of the training that building sees anyway won't be live fire anyway.

    i say go for it and quit whining wankers!!!

  9. #9
    Sig Fantastic Ronin13's Avatar
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    Resurrecting this thread for an important update- RECALL FAILS, All EVPD board members retain their positions in defeat of recall measure, each board member got around 6600 votes to favor them staying in, and around 1300 votes to be recalled. Not surprising considering most of the town supports the fire department, and the NO RECALL campaign was much more organized than the recall campaign was.
    "There is no news in the truth, and no truth in the news."
    "The revolution will not be televised... Instead it will be filmed from multiple angles via cell phone cameras, promptly uploaded to YouTube, Tweeted about, and then shared on Facebook, pending a Wi-Fi connection."

  10. #10
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    Good news, except for the wasted expense to taxpayers.

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