A post about protecting these kids in these schools

[Irving]

I have giving the option of arming teachers another thought and in my opinion it is a bad idea. I know people that work in the school district and know a lot of teachers that in their opinion should not be teaching let alone have a gun. My reasoning behind this is all it would take is one unstable teacher to lose his marbles and shoot up the whole class room. I know there can be BC on people to see if they qualify to posses a handgun on school grounds but even that is not a guaranty, it would also cut down on a lot of potential applicants that would probably make good teachers (mainly talking about people that are against guns) also the teachers job is to teach.

It seems to not have occurred to you that the exact same could be said about any of your security personnel. I have a little experience with non-armed security, and I wouldn't want ANY of those people anywhere near my kid.

I have a question just to clarify. I *think* what you suggest is that laws prohibiting firearms on campuses be rescinded so that anyone who has CCW or even open carry would be available to whomever on school grounds. Your premise would seem to be that the deterrent effect of removing a gun-free zone would be sufficient to reduce these tragedies. Do I understand your point correctly?

Essentially, yes, that is what I am suggesting. In most cases, no one is in a better position to protect people, than the people themselves. Police are great at protecting people, if they happen to be there. To address your concerns about people thinking that I am suggesting arming 6 year-olds, I disagree. If I advocate that families have the opportunity to provide their own protection, no one will suggest that I am hinting at arming my five year-old in order to protect my family, over myself and my wife doing the protecting.

[DHC]

Who is paying for the armed guard? Taxpayers.

Non starter.

Schools already do a less than adequate job of teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic. How could you justify the cost of an armed guard when you can barely justify an art, music or PE teacher? If you can't do more for less money than we are spending now on the public school system, it is dead before it gets out of the gate.

I personally have problems with the idea of a SRO. What 23 year old individual who chooses a career in law enforcement volunteers to spend every shift in a middle school? Either those officers don't want to be there and are looking for something else to keep their selves busy or they are probably not suited to the profession. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

Be safe.

So a couple of the issues to be addressed would be:

* Cost of additional security.
* Qualifications/suitability/capability of armed responders.

What else?

[Atrain1]

Who is paying for the armed guard? Taxpayers.

Non starter.

Schools already do a less than adequate job of teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic. How could you justify the cost of an armed guard when you can barely justify an art, music or PE teacher? If you can't do more for less money than we are spending now on the public school system, it is dead before it gets out of the gate.

I personally have problems with the idea of a SRO. What 23 year old individual who chooses a career in law enforcement volunteers to spend every shift in a middle school? Either those officers don't want to be there and are looking for something else to keep their selves busy or they are probably not suited to the profession. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

Be safe.

I do not know were the funding will come from that is kind of why I started this post. I do not exactly want to sit in my car all day and watch a school either but I will do what I feel is necessary to stop this kind of tragedy. It is not exactly the perfect or ideal job as I would imagine it is very boring. It is a job that needs to be filled by someone that is mentally stable with the proper training. Also I will make sure that my guys have specific training and retrain every 6 months.

[275RLTW]

Yeah cause that is working great.

Newton CT did NOT have an SRO present where other nearby schools did. The deterrent is working fine. I am in no way suggesting that the SRO program is adequate to protect every student from every threat, rather it is very underfunded and understaffed. I do not believe that armed citizens need to be standing in front of our schools (as much as we want to) and it needs to be left to the PD. There are ways of convincing city councels that there are funds, personnel, and definately a need for more SROs. Using the PD would be an immediate solution as most depts already have a program in place and would be much easier to get by liberals (a large majority of liberals support the SRO program) than an armed security guard out front who is in no better shape than the teachers you are resistant to arm. An ERT cannot get to any school in time to prevent the violence...the officer MUST be physically present every day.

[Atrain1]

It seems to not have occurred to you that the exact same could be said about any of your security personnel. I have a little experience with non-armed security, and I wouldn't want ANY of those people anywhere near my kid.



Essentially, yes, that is what I am suggesting. In most cases, no one is in a better position to protect people, than the people themselves. Police are great at protecting people, if they happen to be there. To address your concerns about people thinking that I am suggesting arming 6 year-olds, I disagree. If I advocate that families have the opportunity to provide their own protection, no one will suggest that I am hinting at arming my five year-old in order to protect my family, over myself and my wife doing the protecting.

Yes that has occurred to me along time ago before we even started my business. My people would be a select few and put through extensive BC and mental evaluation, I would not just put Joe blow off the street on this type of job. As of right now it is just an idea that I and the owner of the company are exploring. As I said before the guard will not be in the school or around the kids, does not even have to be on school grounds he could just be parked across the street. Like I have also said before I might not be able to prevent any deaths at all as it happens so fast, but I can sure cut the death toll down. I am open to better ideas.

[DHC]

Essentially, yes, that is what I am suggesting. In most cases, no one is in a better position to protect people, than the people themselves. Police are great at protecting people, if they happen to be there. To address your concerns about people thinking that I am suggesting arming 6 year-olds, I disagree. If I advocate that families have the opportunity to provide their own protection, no one will suggest that I am hinting at arming my five year-old in order to protect my family, over myself and my wife doing the protecting.

Re: People protecting themselves. YES - wholeheartedly agree for adults. Children, OTOH, need adult protection.

Re: Police protection. I believe the police are well-intended and some LE agencies probably manage to provide proactive protection of civilians. That is clearly not always the case - and certainly has not occurred in the school tragedies that have become so well-known.

Re: Arming 6-year-olds. I was reading your post from the perspective of someone who opposes guns. If you read it from their perspective, the language used in your post could be misconstrued. That is all I meant to point out. I see this distortion by the anti-gun crowd quite a bit right now - which is why I mentioned it.

A few thoughts about rescinding the firearm prohibition on campuses. It rankles me to have to lock up my carry gun when I go to pick up my kids from school. To any thinking person it is painfully obvious that gun-free zones, and campuses in particular, are targeted by those intent on mass shootings. It is NOT a coincidence. Still, I think of states like AZ where anyone who is legally allowed to own a firearm is then legally allowed to carry it open or concealed. In this CT incident, the guns were legally acquired and the shooter was not prohibited from possessing them - at least, that is what I understand from the limited amount of information released so far. Had there been no prohibition against guns on campus, he would have been legally allowed to be on campus with his guns and the only thing standing between him and this tragedy would have been others who had weapons willing to take action. We will never know if the deterrent effect of knowing he might meet armed resistance on campus would have prevented this, or other, school tragedies. If so, the answer might be as simple as rescinding the school prohibition on firearms. I can't help but wonder if it is that simple.

Edit to Add: One other important consideration - even if it were as simple as rescinding current laws prohibiting guns on campuses - what is the likelihood of achieving that outcome. If, as I suspect, the odds of rescinding the laws are minimal - then what from there? What other options are available for protection of our kids? I've seen several possibilities mentioned above:

* home-schooling
* increase the SRO program to be universal. I suppose there is precedent in the TSA program for this type of 'solution.'
* armed private security
* armed teachers and staff - similar to the armed pilot program

What others?

[TFOGGER]

Turning schools into locked down military prisons is NOT the answer. Aside from the logistical difficulties, what message does that send to the kids? Answer: that the world is a very scary place and beyond their ability to affect and control. That's right, it instills a victim mentality from the start. A better solution is to offer strong examples for them to follow and look up to, like competent, confident, well trained and disciplined teachers and security staff. Let's unroll the "bubble kid" mentality a bit. Let them get their ass kicked, skin a knee or 2, lose a game.Pain is a great teacher on why one should not be mouthy/stupid/careless. History and Ethics should be required classes starting in middle school at the latest. I have a hundred other ideas brewing in my skull, but I'm not quite ready to articulate them.

I like the idea of allowing CCW at schools, if not open carry. I don't like the idea of turning schools into some kind or armed camp, if for no other reason than it removes the ability of the kids to BE kids. Seriously, does anyone think that kids can be kept 100% safe and still have recess outside or walk to school?

I'm not a parent, so maybe I'm way off base here, but kids have been growing up for hundreds of years in this country, and only for the last couple of generations has the cry "it's for the children!" been used to leverage massive social change(mostly negative).

ETA: If you haven't read Heinlein's Starship Troopers, I highly recommend it. Especially the classroom sessions at the Academy. We are in what Heinlein called the "Crazy Years".

[cstone]

Life is 100% fatal.

Safety is a relative state of existence. You are perfectly safe 30 seconds before the car you are in is in a head on collision with a tractor trailer.

No amount of money anywhere will make every child in every school safe. I know the government is in the business of creating jobs (/sarcasm), but I personally do not want to pay good money paying top dollar for a highly trained guard to wait for a low probability scenario.

Law enforcement is not primarily about protection. Hardening facilities is like playing Whack-A-Mole.

In my "perfect" world, the responsibility of protecting others is not a profession but a calling for all those citizens who choose to serve. Not all callings are paid positions. I carry because I can, and I feel called to do so for those that I love and my fellow citizens. I'm with Irving on this one. The government should stop restricting those citizens who feel compelled to be prepared for the unforeseen dangers life presents.

Be safe.

[Atrain1]

Turning schools into locked down military prisons is NOT the answer. Aside from the logistical difficulties, what message does that send to the kids? Answer: that the world is a very scary place and beyond their ability to affect and control. That's right, it instills a victim mentality from the start. A better solution is to offer strong examples for them to follow and look up to, like competent, confident, well trained and disciplined teachers and security staff. Let's unroll the "bubble kid" mentality a bit. Let them get their ass kicked, skin a knee or 2, lose a game.Pain is a great teacher on why one should not be mouthy/stupid/careless. History and Ethics should be required classes starting in middle school at the latest. I have a hundred other ideas brewing in my skull, but I'm not quite ready to articulate them.

I like the idea of allowing CCW at schools, if not open carry. I don't like the idea of turning schools into some kind or armed camp, if for no other reason than it removes the ability of the kids to BE kids. Seriously, does anyone think that kids can be kept 100% safe and still have recess outside or walk to school?

I'm not a parent, so maybe I'm way off base here, but kids have been growing up for hundreds of years in this country, and only for the last couple of generations has the cry "it's for the children!" been used to leverage massive social change(mostly negative).

ETA: If you haven't read Heinlein's Starship Troopers, I highly recommend it. Especially the classroom sessions at the Academy. We are in what Heinlein called the "Crazy Years".

I do not want to turn the school into a military base which is the whole reason for the security guard idea. Getting hurt and losing 20 innocent children are 2 completely different things. My way of thinking is if there was someone there with the knowledge and tools to prevent this kind of tragedy parents could feel a lot better about sending their kids to school. I am done trying to prove my point after this post as I see a very simple cost effective way of preventing this. If I did it the way I want to no one would really even know there was a guard there until he was needed.

[liberty19]

Atrain1,
Thanks for the thought provoking post. I am a Certified Protection Specialist with quite a lot of experience in protecting people and am a senior instructor at the top protection school in the country. If you figure out a way to use your funding to help schools, I would be happy to help with my expertise. I have created a Power Point presentation on Violence in Schools focusing on how to keep your school from being selected as target.