I can vouge for Kraven, good guy and definitely fits in with this group. Maybe he just likes to poke the bear...
Kraven, just remember, most of these "litards" enter a discussion based on their emotions, best thing you can do is tell the facts and history. Or you can try and put them into your shoes. For example, I have an aquaintence that is for banning all guns. I asked him what he would do to protect his family?. He said, we arent talking about "my" family. I said, so you wouldnt do anything that was in your power to protect your 2 sons and/or wife from harm. You would just sit by and allow it. He didnt have much to say after that, granted he also deleted me from his friends list on FB, which is fine with me. But I also got a "sorry" i see what you mean.





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