well the virdict is in, these are great rifles, crisp triggers, no trouble at all, I put a carry handle I had laying around on one, and got 1.5" to 2" inch groups at 100 yards. I belive the rifle could have done better, I'm a getting a little shakey as I age, rifle # two was the doner for my new leupold mark4 1.5-5 mr/t m2 scope (kinda sad the scope cost's more than the rifle) but after sighting her in, I shot several quarter size 3 shot groups at 100 yards. I do belive I'm going to order a couple more of these, before they run out or the democraps take over.