How to deal with a liberal on this whole gun control thing

[adamking84]

Well, I guess...

I know most of you guys are super right. I'm fine with that. Me, i'm an independent who probably leans a tad to the right. Gun rights? We absolutely deserve them. Women's rights? They definitely deserve to choose...

But who am I to judge? Here's my recent correspondence with a super liberal who is a very good friend of mine, and still will be. Agree to disagree:

Friend: Part of the problem is Newtown, a much larger part happens daily:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...src=most_viral
How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?
www.slate.com
The answer to the simple question in that headline is surprisingly hard to come by. So Slate and the Twitter feed @GunDeaths are collecting data for our crowdsourced interactive. This data is necessarily incomplete. But the more people who are paying attention, the better the data will be. You can.....

Mr. The King: How many people have been killed by knives since Newtown? Better yet, how many people have been killed by drunk drivers (which is illegal) since Newtown? How many people by methamphetamines? Not trying to downplay a tragedy, but maybe trying to put it in perspective.

Friend: Knives have a purpose outside of killing. I don`t think people should be allowed to drive drunk nor use meth. Guns are designed with one purpose in mind.

Mr. The King:Guns are designed for killing, absolutely. Gang bangers, drug addicts, everyday criminals find a way to have guns for that exact purpose. Should I, as a law abiding, tax paying citizen not be allowed to defend myself and my family and those who I care about against those who don't respect the law?

I also don't think people should drive drunk or use meth. Doesn't stop them.

I also want to convey - the Presidents Executive Orders, for the most part i'm all for. If you own something capable of that much destruction you should pass a hard series of backround checks. Absolutely. Mental health in your family needs to be examined, and if you choose to have a firearm with someone who is mentally unstable, how could you NOT see it as a personal responsibility to keep anything dangerous away from them. However, that does not mean you should restrict those people who are law abiding to have these items. That's exactly what our country was founded on.

Friend: Taxpayer guns end up in the hands of gang bangers, drug addicts, and everyday criminals. Tax payers may themselves become murders in a moment of crisis. Decades of studies have found that gun owners are more likely to injury themselves or a family member instead of an intruder. Guns make it far too easy to end another person`s life. As for your second point; rates of drunk driving and meth use would go up if they were made legal. Lastly, the framers of our constitution had guns that took 30 seconds to load and fire a single bullet. If you want to own a musket or blunderbuss I could be okay with that. Sensible, democratic countries that have implemented constitutions within the past century know that guns only lead to more violence, not less. I don`t understand how having more guns around solves our nation`s violence problems. Having more guns around seems to compound them.

What I`m hearing you say, Adam, is that if criminals have guns you should have a gun too. Like, to level the playing field. And even if guns were illegal people would still have access to them. The problem I have is that I don`t see how more guns fixes that. Having fewer guns doesn`t end the problem but it seems like the problem will slow down.

Mr. The King: If we were hanging out having a beer together and someone came at you with a knife, gun, musket, blunderbuss...whatever...you better believe I would be comfortable with becoming a "murderer" to keep you and I and anyone else around us alive. I'm not gonna tickle-fight that guy to death. Gun control does not stop criminals from having guns, it stops rational, law abiding citizens from having the tools necessary to stop violence against them. Guns, knives, boots, fists, and otherwise. I'm not arguing against stopping the bad guys from having guns, the complete opposite. It's the fact that the bad guys CAN have guns, the mentally ill will FIND a way to have guns. We can't stop HUMANS and weed from crossing our borders, what makes you think firearms are exempt from that? I need a way to protect myself, protect you, protect my loved ones against them. I'm not saying more guns are the solution, guns being developed in the first place were the problem. Just like the long sword being developed in the first place was the problem. The cannon. The musket. You defend yourself against the threat, keep the threat away from the upper hand (this case, guns), or else find a way to stop them.

Here's my deal: You come at me with a knife - i'll come back at you with a handgun. You bust my front door in with a handgun - i'm coming at you with a shotgun. You come down my street with shotguns - my AR-15 is coming out. If it gets beyond that, well, I don't believe in a higher power, but as they say "God help us all". I absolutely believe, "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". I'm no bad guy, and I hope to never, ever cross a bad guy. And I truly believe there's enough history of violence in Cap Hill and nationwide to back up my reasoning here.

Friend: What I hear you saying is that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. But when you play out that scenario it ends with complete destruction. As you said, "I don`t believe in a high power, but...`God help us all.`" That seems closely related to the Cold War. Change will never come easily but we need to start making some changes.

Mr. The King: Fair enough. Find a way to keep weapons out of bad guy's hands. Ban guns nationwide. Bad guys carry a knife, i'm gonna carry a bigger knife. Bad guys have brass knuckles. I'm gonna go to the gym, get "wicked pumped yo" (which I do already) and buy a brass boxxer's glove. My buddy at work brought up something - "what is the smallest, like, flash-bang thing I could have?". His reason being, bad guy is shooting a gun, i'm (me) shooting a gun back at said bad guy. How does he get away. My response? "What would you rather have against someone shooting up this building, a snap-pop or a handgun?"

[mahabali]

Sooo... Who did you vote for in November?

[adamking84]

Thanks to my employer I got to fly to Israel at the very last minute during the entire voting process (including missing the opportunity for mail-in ballots), otherwise it would have been Gary Johnson. Not that it should really matter at this point in the discussion.

[Tinelement]

Annnnnnd........

the moral of this story was.......

[Great-Kazoo]

Deduct the gun deaths which are from Citizens used to stop a crime. LE used to stop a crime or attack. Gang related shootings, suicides, and last but not least. Deduct your now Former Friend from what ever social media, people use instead of FTF conversations.

ALSO in those figures have your X friend compile how many shootings were committed in areas with Tough Gun laws.

[cstone]

Any chance I can convince you that abortion is murder?

So what chance do you put on convincing your friends that guns aren't bad?

It's your time, do what you want with it.

Be safe.

[Monky]

Any chance I can convince you that abortion is murder?

Really? That has NOTHING to do with the issues being posted. You wonder why the liberals keep winning? OH look.. squirrel.

[cstone]

Really? That has NOTHING to do with the issues being posted. You wonder why the liberals keep winning? OH look.. squirrel.

My point is, people believe what they believe for all sorts of reasons. The OP mentioned his belief on a woman's right to choose, and I would not waste my time trying to change his mind any more than he should waste time trying to change his liberal friend's mind. I understand that it is his time and he may choose to waste it in any way he chooses.

I could have used the OP's expressed position on atheism rather than abortion to make the same point. I just don't spend a lot of my time arguing with people about issues where so many people have established such passionate opinions that they are unlikely to listen to anything you have to say.

YMMV

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[cstone]

you guys sure waste alot of energy. Follow me here, I dont know liberals and they dont cause me any worry. (not in daily life) Now you try.

I do know liberals and they don't cause me any worry.

Now politicians with any agenda, regardless of their political leaning cause me a great deal of concern.