Couple of ??'s About 'Registration' of Firearms

[DHC]

I've noted several posts by Jim lately in which he admonishes those who might be mistaken in thinking their guns are 'registered' here in Colorado. It got me thinking about this registration question and I realize there are some aspects that I am unclear about. For instance:

* Preface this with my understanding there exists no current law in CO requiring that guns be registered - NFA class 3 notwithstanding. Anyone know if there is any law PROHIBITING authorities in Colorado from creation and maintenance of a 'gun registry'?
* When I purchase new guns, especially those with a lifetime warranty (T/C Icon and a Ruger through Davidson's come to mind), I complete the warranty registration cards and send them in. When filing warranty cards, doesn't this create the opportunity for the authorities to demand those records from the manufacturers/distributors? While true that subsequent private sales would disrupt some percentage of the integrity of the data, it seems like the act of filing warranty registration may be a poor idea for those seeking to minimize the 'tracks' back to their guns. Do you guys generally fill out the warranty registrations on new guns?
* Some years ago I held a FFL. My reason was primarily to be able to make personal purchases at some discount. When the laws were changed to increase FFL fees and allow ATF to conduct more frequent and intrusive inspections, I gave up the FFL. While holding it, I made a few transactions for friends and family, and I maintained the records as the law required. Upon closure of the FFL license, I was required to surrender all the records (Form 4473's and logs) to ATF. In the case of an FFL that closes up shop, all the transactions they handled for the previous 5 years, at least, would be submitted to ATF and subject to inclusion in some kind of database they create/maintain. This raises the question as to whether there is any legislation on a federal level to prohibit the creation/maintenance of a gun registry - anyone know?

Like I said, the comments by Jim (and others) provoked these thoughts and raised some questions. Appreciate any clarification offered. Thanks, in advance.

[Great-Kazoo]

By all means use my name. I am one of the most vocal (have nothing better to do) regarding REGISTRATION and use of the word. It kills me, gun owners continue to use said word, then acknowledge we don't have it, WHY? Lack of education, or really believe every time you fill out a 4473 they guns become registered? ? ?

Warranty REGISTRATION is for the mfg Legal dept, to CYA. Unless a crime is committed with a firearm, later taken in as evidence, NO LE has any idea who the gun belonged to. Ballistics will show what kind of gun, however until said gun is ever located, no idea of origin.
What the CO state leg passed was supposedly no info given to LE's about CCW if contact made. When called in to CBI ONLY Name DOB, SOC (if given) DL address Long gun, hand gun OTHER are given. MAKE, MODEL & SERIAL NO are not given or required by law.

The feds Supposedly have no data base kept. They know you have guns (especially in my case) what you have, unless prying eyes start looking, no clue of actual guns. NFA items they always do a BG check, one every form submitted. I sent one in X and the other 2 weeks later. When contacted the investigator told me "Sorry last weeks approval does not mean something hasn't happened / appeared" to issue a denial. It did help speed the process.

IF / Once a firearm is confiscated (for what ever reason) taken as evidence, or found by what ever means. THEN the S# is run and a trace begun.

[OneGuy67]

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=313391

Interesting news article that answers your last question.

[DHC]

By all means use my name. I am one of the most vocal (have nothing better to do) regarding REGISTRATION and use of the word. It kills me, gun owners continue to use said word, then acknowledge we don't have it, WHY? Lack of education, or really believe every time you fill out a 4473 they guns become registered? ? ?

Jim, it was your posts that prompted me to think about this issue. My mention of your name was intended as a positive attribution. I hope it came across that way.

Re: Form 4473's. Do you recall the scene in Red Dawn where the Cuban officer orders his men to gather up all the Form 4473's from the sporting goods shops in town - so that they could identify gun owners and confiscate their weapons? Yes, it was Hollywood, but a similar scenario is at least plausible.

Just looking again at the FFL record-keeping requirements. Looks like the regulations have expanded quite a lot. Form 4473's and the transaction log are required to be maintained for 20 years after the date of the transaction. In the link posted by OneGuy67 in his response, it looks like out-of-business records held at ATF are NOT stored in a database and the process to retrieve a record is onerous.

In terms of warranty registration, it had not occurred to me till now that I probably need to ask the warranty information holder what assurances they provide to protect my information.

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=313391

Interesting news article that answers your last question.

Yes, it does - thank you. Here is a C&P of that text:

"Federal law bars the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from keeping track of guns. The only time the government can track the history of a gun, including its first buyer and seller, is after it's used in a crime."

Thanks guys, for the responses.

[asmo]

JIn the link posted by OneGuy67 in his response, it looks like out-of-business records held at ATF are NOT stored in a database and the process to retrieve a record is onerous.

There will be quite a few people, at the FTC and CJIS, happy to hear that they don't have to go to work anymore.

[DHC]

There will be quite a few people, at the FTC and CJIS, happy to hear that they don't have to go to work anymore.

I apologize for missing the point of your response, but I am confused by it. Did I misinterpret the referenced article?

That article addressed the function of the ATF's National Tracing Center. Is there some connection to the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division?

I can see that the anti-gun crowd would press to have all guns and their owners entered into a registry. It seems logical that an organization like the CJIS would be tasked with that duty. Running counter to that is the law cited by Teufelhund prohibiting the creation of such a registry by the Government.

Admittedly, I am just beginning to explore this and could easily be mistaken (and/or naive) in my interpretations. I welcome any 'illumination' from those more experienced and knowledgeable.

[Teufelhund]

Yes, it does - thank you. Here is a C&P of that text:

"Federal law bars the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from keeping track of guns. The only time the government can track the history of a gun, including its first buyer and seller, is after it's used in a crime."

Thanks guys, for the responses.

Just to add to this, the specific federal law which prohibits the keeping of a database of guns and their owners is the Firearm Owners Protection Act (Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926). This is the relevant section from that law:

No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

[Wulf202]

If I recall correctly the colorado constitution directly prohibits registration.

[Eggysrun]

If I recall correctly the colorado constitution directly prohibits registration.

If I recall recorrectly democrats don't give a shit about any constitution state or federal that doesn't aid their agendas lol

[griebel303]

This is great information and like DHC I was unclear on "registration". Thank you for the clarfication