Still like Ron Paul? Think again...

[Cthulhu]

PTSD is real and a concern for returning vets, but the real concern is the climate being set up to use this as an excuse to take the rights of those that stood to defend the constitution.

^THIS. I'm not a Veteran but I'm absolutely in favor of the second amendment and think it applies to all Citizens equally. Attempts to disarm those that suffer from PTSD will only make them less likely to seek treatment.

[Ronin13]

My Uncle's wife is a psychiatrist that specialized in addiction therapy. She worked extensively with the VA from the late 70's until the mid 90's and that was her take. She said that PTSD has been around as long as war. It has been known by many names but has always had the same symptoms. The main difference with the generation going through this now is that they are less mature than say the WW2 generation that lived through the depression before the war. Most of them were working to help support the family by the time they were teenagers. That means that they were more equipped to handle the stresses of battle. Second the average age of a soldier in WW2 was 25, a big difference.

PTSD is real and a concern for returning vets, but the real concern is the climate being set up to use this as an excuse to take the rights of those that stood to defend the constitution.

That's just opinion, please don't dress it up like facts. People vary differently, I served with 18 year olds who were better equipped to handle combat stress than some 30 year olds. I also served with a 40 year old who was about as mature, if not less, than some guys in their 20's. It varies from person to person, and this generation is no less mature or equipped for combat than any other. You also should consider how wars are today by comparison to years ago... We're not jumping off a boat to punch a uniformed Nazi in the face- our enemy hides among the civilian population, blends in, and strikes without warning just to fade back into the innocents. Our enemy doesn't treat their captives humanely, and often times beheads them- that's a fear you don't even want to contemplate. You talk about stress and maturity- I'm not sure if you've ever served, but when one of your soldiers says "If we get into a firefight, I'm not letting them take me alive- I don't want my head cut off on Al Jazeera." That has destructive psychological effects. The way wars are being fought today can't even compare to WWII or Korea- thanks to politics and ROE, I don't even think you can compare it to Vietnam. Big difference.

[UncleDave]

No disrespect intended here Ronin, but I was speaking in generalities. Everyone is different and will react differently. As a whole what I said is true, this generation is not forged in the flames of adversity from childhood like our grandparents were. It is more about the conditioning of a life of hard knocks. As far as the treatment of prisoners, look up what the Japanese did to captured men. Beheading was the nicest thing they did. My grandfather saw it firsthand. I agree fighting an insurgent conflict is different, but the horrors of war are the horrors of war. I would agree that the current rules of engagement add another level of stress to the situation, but that is not what we are talking about. My point was and is that PTSD has always existed for returning soldiers. However in years past you had a several week trip by ship to decompress from the stresses of the battlefield. Now, a short flight and you are back in the world. Not an easy transition.

That's just opinion, please don't dress it up like facts. People vary differently, I served with 18 year olds who were better equipped to handle combat stress than some 30 year olds. I also served with a 40 year old who was about as mature, if not less, than some guys in their 20's. It varies from person to person, and this generation is no less mature or equipped for combat than any other. You also should consider how wars are today by comparison to years ago... We're not jumping off a boat to punch a uniformed Nazi in the face- our enemy hides among the civilian population, blends in, and strikes without warning just to fade back into the innocents. Our enemy doesn't treat their captives humanely, and often times beheads them- that's a fear you don't even want to contemplate. You talk about stress and maturity- I'm not sure if you've ever served, but when one of your soldiers says "If we get into a firefight, I'm not letting them take me alive- I don't want my head cut off on Al Jazeera." That has destructive psychological effects. The way wars are being fought today can't even compare to WWII or Korea- thanks to politics and ROE, I don't even think you can compare it to Vietnam. Big difference.

[Mick-Boy]

You need to loose the attitude. There is no reason to be a dick...

I think you are trying to argue semantics, when Im not.

What im saying is its not unreasonable to have that initial thought right out of the gate

OK. Getting past the fact that you can't seem to wrap your head around the difference between killing an enemy in combat and murdering two men on a firing range; knowing even a tiny bit about what happened, it's pretty damn unreasonable. Chief Kyle and Mr. Littlefield were not soldiers at war. They were not "living by the sword". They were civilians at the range.

Unless your contention is that everyone who ever pulled a trigger or dropped a bomb in Iraq or Afghanistan somehow "has it coming" if they shot, You need to just accept that Dr. Paul said some dumb shit and now he's taking a beating for it.

[Bailey Guns]

Didn't RP take the Oath of Office as a US military officer? Does that mean he should "die by the sword"?

[Fmedges]

My Uncle's wife is a psychiatrist that specialized in addiction therapy. She worked extensively with the VA from the late 70's until the mid 90's and that was her take. She said that PTSD has been around as long as war. It has been known by many names but has always had the same symptoms. The main difference with the generation going through this now is that they are less mature than say the WW2 generation that lived through the depression before the war. Most of them were working to help support the family by the time they were teenagers. That means that they were more equipped to handle the stresses of battle. Second the average age of a soldier in WW2 was 25, a big difference.

PTSD is real and a concern for returning vets, but the real concern is the climate being set up to use this as an excuse to take the rights of those that stood to defend the constitution.

You are incorrect. The main difference is society as a whole, not the maturity of the individuals. Just watch TV for ten minutes and I'm sure you will see an ad about some kind of medication you can ask your doctor about. Gone are the days of accepting blame, confronting people, losing, learning how to lose and learning how to deal with adversity. I'm depressed, I have ADD, I have PTSD, I'm an alcoholic, I'm BiPolar, I'm obese, I have blah blah blah. In this society everything must have a definite cause and a definite solution. The fact of it is that if people learned how to deal with adversity instead of wanting things to do it for them then I feel that our generation would mirror the past generations to some degree. We are stronger physically, smarter mentally and better equipped than the generations that have come before us, yet it would seem that so many younger vets are having a hard time dealing with PTSD. No doubt all the previous wars veterans had PTSD as well, but for the most part it wasn't the epidemic that it is today. Why is that? I believe it's because these days something has to be to blame. I do not have PTSD nor do I know anything about it, however my best friend does and he has zero problems living a normal and productive life. You are only a victim if you let yourself be. Wild ass guesses about the average maturity of the WW2 serviceman as opposed to today's serviceman is just that, a guess.

[UncleDave]

My point was that the servicemen of any generation are taken from the society of the time. As you said society as a whole is sorely lacking the the maturity (ie. taking responsibility, meaning up) department. So we basically agree here Fmedges. I was making a general statement about the mentality of the current generation not the individuals. Ronin had diverted the conversation to some of those he served with. I was merely clarifying my statement.

[bryjcom]

OK. Getting past the fact that you can't seem to wrap your head around the difference between killing an enemy in combat and murdering two men on a firing range; knowing even a tiny bit about what happened, it's pretty damn unreasonable. Chief Kyle and Mr. Littlefield were not soldiers at war. They were not "living by the sword". They were civilians at the range.

Unless your contention is that everyone who ever pulled a trigger or dropped a bomb in Iraq or Afghanistan somehow "has it coming" if they shot, You need to just accept that Dr. Paul said some dumb shit and now he's taking a beating for it.

Your insistence on proving me wrong on a point I wasn't even trying to make, is mind boggling to say the least...

I've seen your type before... Your the one that has to prove someone wrong on a technical aspect and can't seem to let go of it.

So..... you are correct...

There is a legal distinction between killing someone in warfare and killing someone in a murderous rage and I've known that for exactly 47 1/2 days also. Aren't I smart???

When the opportunity presents itself I will make sure to pass that info to the dead...

[tmleadr03]

Your insistence on proving me wrong on a point I wasn't even trying to make, is mind boggling to say the least...

I've seen your type before... Your the one that has to prove someone wrong on a technical aspect and can't seem to let go of it.

So..... you are correct...

There is a legal distinction between killing someone in warfare and killing someone in a murderous rage and I've known that for exactly 47 1/2 days also. Aren't I smart???

When the opportunity presents itself I will make sure to pass that info to the dead...

There is also an inherent moral difference as well, but I feel that eludes you as well.

[bryjcom]

There is also an inherent moral difference as well, but I feel that eludes you as well.

Sigh