I'm Dissappointed in the NRA

[ssf467]

I guess some is better than none? That's what has gotten us the likes of the Clinton's and the Bush family.
I will not continue to support lesser than two evils. I will attempt to sell my vote on Ebay to make a statement. Any bids?

[Gman]

You're going to have to move to ssf467ville to avoid having to make choices that are less than perfect in your eyes.

You sell your vote on e-Bay to make a statement. I'm a member of the NRA to make a statement. I wonder which one gets more attention.

[Sucka]

You're going to have to move to ssf467ville to avoid having to make choices that are less than perfect in your eyes.

That's the truth of it right there. Ain't no such thing as a perfect world, a perfect candidate, a perfect anything.

If we had an extremely conservative Republican on the ticket, imagine how many people think that's imperfect...

[ssf467]

It's a slow bleed, Hey if Compromising all the time is okay with you, drive on. Please any "Veterans" read on.
As a Veteran who has fought in the Armed Forces this represents a slap in the face.
Can you really say the founders of this Country wanted such a huge centralized power?

Veteran’s group’s oppose H.R. 2640

The American Legion and the Military Order of the Purple Heart have joined National Association for Gun Rights, Gun Owners of America and dozens and dozens of state and local gun rights groups in opposition to Rep. Carolyn McCarthy and Sen. Patrick Leahy’s massive expansion of the Brady Registration Act, H.R. 2640.

Opposition to H.R. 2640 continues to grow, thanks exclusively to the grassroots activism of gun owners -- like you and me-- across the country. All of the establishment, and notably the institutional gun lobby – that’s the NRA and their Gucci-loafered lobbyists – are supporting H.R. 2640, the McCarthy/Leahy Gun Control Bill.

The NRA continues to make excuses; using legislative and legal doublespeak to mislead their members about this bill.

Make no mistake; H.R. 2640 is a massive expansion of the unconstitutional Brady Registration Act. This gun control legislation gives unprecedented new powers to the federal government’s NICS system to open up supposedly private mental health records to government scrutiny. This bill aims to criminalize our nation’s combat veterans and anyone who’s sought help for depression or other mental concerns normally associated with combat. They are working hard to give the Federal Government – and their uncontrollable beast, the BATFE-- the tools they need to persecute and prosecute gun owners.

Welcome to the future, keep compromising and we'll all be talking about the good old days of firearm ownership.
Look at the DV law. Retroactive law? Who would have thunk it. Misdemeanor conviction and no gun.

Enjoy the slippery slope.

[ssf467]

AP: Montrose Colorado

Prarie Dog's in local area have thrown their support to the NRA and Sen. B. Obama.
A Spokesdog for one of the larger colonies stated, We (prairie dogs) see a peaceful nonviolent future of hope and change; firearms will soon be a thing of the past. Our children and women will be able to bask in the sun without fear!"
The Spokesdog also went on to elaborate of the colonies plan of global domination without the threat of "crazy armed rednecks keeping their population in check"
Prarie Dogs all over the Western United States are convinced that the genocide of their species will be a thing of the past . This reporter did see the gleam of hope in their beady little eyes.
Local resident Redneck, Buford Lee Williams was upset at the thought of Prarie Dog Over Lords and vowed to fight to the end with a pitch fork if he had to.

[Gman]

Make no mistake; H.R. 2640 is a massive expansion of the unconstitutional Brady Registration Act. This gun control legislation gives unprecedented new powers to the federal government’s NICS system to open up supposedly private mental health records to government scrutiny. This bill aims to criminalize our nation’s combat veterans and anyone who’s sought help for depression or other mental concerns normally associated with combat. They are working hard to give the Federal Government – and their uncontrollable beast, the BATFE-- the tools they need to persecute and prosecute gun owners.

This is absolutely false. The only way I can see someone promoting such BS is that they still refuse to read for themselves what is in H.R. 2640. Stop cutting and pasting and start reading. The link is on page 2.

It's a slippery slope when people let others form their opinions.

[ssf467]

So the NRA supports a GUN CONTROL messure and that's okay

[Gman]

Nope. On both counts.
http://www.nraila.org/heller/

I've read Dudley's allegations. They've been involved in gun control legislation. Yep, trying to limit the damage. The Brady Bill was going to make people wait, and if there was no approval, not be granted the ability to purchase. The NRA's involvement gives you the ability to get an instant check, and if you happen to live somewhere where that isn't good enough, a non-response will still grant approval due to inactivity by the government. The burden is on them.

As to Wayne LaPerriere being paid $900K? Prove it. The most I could find is that he made $726,245. That puts him below AARP, The Shriners, The American Red Cross, American Cancer Society, Boy Scouts of America, United Way of America, American Heart Association, Boys & Girls Clubs of America, American Diabetes Association, The National Park Foundation, Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, The Wildlife Conversation Society, and others. Seems like sour grapes from the folks bitching about it. http://www.charitywatch.org/Top25.html

If you think that the historical involvement by the NRA has made things worse rather than better, you're kidding yourself. If you think that putting your efforts into tearing down the NRA will help gun owners, you're deluded. If you think they aren't successfully defeating the efforts of the anti-gunners, just read some of what the antis are bitching about when it comes to the NRA. Are those that are unhappy with the NRA even familiar with the The Joyce Foundation and the millions that they're using to do battle against our RKBA?

The Brady Bunch must be creaming in their shorts seeing the pro-gun community tearing each other apart. They can just sit back and reap the benefits.

[pickenup]

Please avoid regurgitating someone else's emotional "analysis". Use the resources available to you to form your own opinion instead of borrowing one.

I COMPLETELY agree with Gman on this statement.
I have heard it said, many times in the past, so I did.

I didn’t believe what I was hearing, maybe I just didn’t WANT to believe.
So I used the resources available to me, and the following is what I came up with.



(Due to the 15,000 character limitations of this forum, the following thread has been broken into two separate posts)

[pickenup]

First
Do not confuse the NRA-ILA…..the subject of this post……
((National Rifle Association, Institute of Legislative Action))
With the “Friends of the NRA” which does a TON of good.
“All net proceeds (from the Friends of the NRA) benefit The NRA Foundation, with half allocated to fund projects within the state where the money was raised. The NRA Foundation uses the other half to fund similar projects with a national scope.”

The following is posted for informational purposes only.
So often, you hear someone say, “Do a little research, then make up your own mind”
Well, I am ALL FOR letting people make up their own mind.
But to be fair, one does need to see BOTH sides.

Second,
I am an NRA member (so far) and a gun owner. I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment,
AS IT WAS WRITTEN.

What part of….
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
or
The right to keep and BEAR arms….
is hard to understand???

Third,
THE WHOLE TRUTH,
If an organization claims to SPEAK FOR ME, then I WANT TO KNOW what they are doing / saying. If they make the claim that they champion MY RIGHTS, then I want them to DO IT, NOT compromise MY RIGHTS away.

Or are some so “afraid” of the “WHOLE” truth? Only wanting to hear ONE SIDE of the story. Is the NRA supposed to be placed on a pedestal, given FREE REIGN, where NO ONE is supposed to question their actions? Are they NOT to be held accountable for their actions? Why not?

It is SO much easier to attack any person who has the unmitigated gall to say ANYTHING negative about the NRA. Calling them a backstabber, an anti-gunner, an advocate for the “other side” than it is to admit that your precious organization advocates laws that are UNconstitutional, and NEEDS to have members WORKING TO CHANGE which laws they support. Ya, lets KILL the messenger.

Fourth,
Have they done some good? OF COURSE. They have to win “some” if they didn’t, that 3-4 million membership number would fade rather quickly. We have had almost 2 terms of a republican president. How many gun laws has the NRA even TRIED to have repealed? How many states have they fought for a “Vermont/Alaska style” CCW law in? You can not say it is impossible, Alaska just passed such a law, a few years ago.

The NRA has been hard at work, over the last few years, turning a CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT (to bear arms) into a REVOCABLE PRIVILEGE (CCW) with the government making the decision on who is, and who is not, PERMITTED to bear arms.
(once the - fee - is paid, of course)
Many pro-gun people commend the NRA for this.
Others see it for what it REALLY is.

The second amendment states. “The right of the people to keep and BEAR arms” It doesn’t say “to keep and display arms” or “to keep and hide arms” or “to keep and lock up your arms” or “to keep and use arms” it says “to keep and BEAR arms” Look it up in the dictionary. To “bear something” means to CARRY it. Any attempt at “interpreting” the meaning of this, is clearly an anti-gun tactic.

I for one, will NO LONGER put the NRA on a pedestal. I will NOT turn a blind eye to their actions. I WILL be watching. It’s YOUR rights as well, shouldn’t you be watching TOO?

*****

Compromise = A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.
What concessions has the other side made? Our side has to agree to incremental infringements of our constitutional rights now, rather than loosing them one all at once??? Where is the “compromise” in this?

*****

This next part is for that lame argument heard ALL THE TIME;
“If you don’t like it, change it, or start your own organization.”

The “idea” of changing from within, or starting your own group, is nothing new. The following BOARD MEMBERS spent YEARS trying for change from within, and for various reasons, they COULD NOT! They left the NRA to start their own PRO-gun organizations. But then, sadly, they will be labeled as fanatics as well…..by some.

Now, a few lowly PEON members are expected to be able to walk in off the street, and in no time, effect change? Do we even have the time left, to re-invent the wheel?

Lets start with H. L. Richardson. He was a board member of the NRA for 10 years. Did he see a problem with their policies? When he found he could NOT change it from within, he left and started the Gun Owners Of America. (GOA) What is now (arguably) the largest REAL PRO-gun rights activist organization in the country. Which is also known by MOST as the “NO COMPROMISE” gun lobby. What have they done? Looks it up yourself, it might surprise you.

Then we can turn out attention to Neal Knox, a career gun rights activist. A board member, as well as serving four years for the NRA, as the Executive Director of the Institute For Legislative Action. Which is the lobbying arm of the NRA. He too must have had a problem with the policies of the NRA, found it impossible to change from within, as he went on to found the Firearms Coalition. Another well known “NO COMPROMISE” PRO-GUN organization.

When Neal Knox was on the board, there was a vote to see if Executive Vice President (LaPierre) should be suspended or removed from office. It was supported by a solid 39-30 majority, but short of the two-thirds which was required for passage. At that time, what the Board majority didn't know, was that the previous week LaPierre and his supporters had secretly ordered the placement of a full page ad in the ballot issue of the NRA magazines-six weeks after the published deadline for election ads. Political subterfuge at it’s best. Give the members ONLY the information you WANT them to have. The ad worked. five of the nine were defeated, tipping the balance of power on the Board back into LaPierre‘s favor.

Nancyann Rutledge, who was the President of the Santa Barbara NRA Members Council, later to become the Citizens Gun Rights Alliance. What happened to her? After refusing to support the NRA’s gun control positions, and anti-gun candidates, she was decertified by the NRA.

Dave Edmondson, a 2-term NRA Director. Another in a long line of past Directors, board members, etc. which are vocal critics of the NRA's leadership and direction. Dave went on to be founder of the “State Association Coordinating Committee.”

Neil Smith, a life member of the NRA, is an outspoken gun rights activist who is NOT happy with the NRA. He is founder of International Coordinator of the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus.

A few other facts.

Lets talk about Clarence Lovell, an ex-member of the NRA Board of Directors for 14 years. He left because, “he could no longer stomach the falsity of those heading the NRA.”

Albert Ross, former NRA Directors, and second Vice President. Who is now Texas State Rifle Association Director, strongly CONDEMNS the NRA’s very own program, Project Exile. Sighting Project Exile as laws that are unconstitutional violations of the Second Amendment.

Other Board Directors, board members, life members, endowment members, etc that condemned the NRA for Project Exile. Former Chairman, NRA High-power Committee, David Gross, Larry R. Rankin, Arthur Nichols, H.S. "Gunnie" Reagan, Chris BeHanna, Robert T Fanning, Jr., Don Loucks, Jim Ramm, Anthony Brian, Jack H. Stuart, Arnold Gaunt, Clarence Lovell, Richard L. Carone, and more.

Some of the comments C. Russell Howard made when he resigned from the NRA board.
“The unholy alliance of NRA leaders, vendors, and Republican elements is the reason why NRA is declining in stature.

(Addressing LaPierre)
Compared to Mr. Knox's influence, you run the Board like a concentration camp commandant

The struggle for the right of the people to keep and bear arms is at the core of a fundamental struggle for freedom……..In any conflict, if those on the front lines cannot trust and rely on the honor of their comrades, the cause is doomed. While there are many good and honorable people on the Board with various stands on the current power struggle, there are some who cannot be trusted and are without honor.”

*****

Lets take just a moment to talk about the financial side of things. NO ONE is arguing that any origination NEEDS funding.

The NRA saw this, and long ago entrenched themselves into gun ranges. The range needs insurance, the NRA provides it, the range REQUIRES membership in the NRA to be a member of the range. MANY can relate to this. A number of ranges have done some research, in the last few years, and there ARE other insurance programs available. LESS COSTLY than the NRA. Imagine that.

The next financial topic…certification to be an NRA instructor.
Why do certified instructors have to be RE-certified EVERY YEAR?
Did the three rules of gun safety change?
Exactly what DID change to require a re-certification YEARLY??
Oh wait, you have to PAY the NRA……again, and again, AND AGAIN.
And for every discipline. Pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.
The more disciplines, the more you pay.

Now lets look again at the CCW laws, supported by the NRA.
Oh surprise, many states require a NRA CERTIFIED firearms instructor, to give the REQUIRED classes, to get your government sponsored PERMIT.

With a yearly salary of $895,897 in 2004 we won’t even mention that LaPierre probably has gone over a one MILLION $$$$ salary today. The president of the United States only gets $400,000.
(OK, LaPierre’s salary (for today) is speculation, why are there no financial records available since 2004?)
Has anyone received a renewal form from the NRA 8-10 MONTHS before it is due?
That just irks me, that’s all.

Some say, concerning the NRA, it’s ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

*****

Now lets talk about what HARM can they do / have they done?

Let us first consider the “Uniform Machinegun Act of 1932” which provided for the registration of machine guns, that was adopted in a few states (Conn., Va., Md., Ark., and Montana and possibly others) which was developed with the support of the NRA, BEFORE the feds adopted the “National Firearms Act” in 1934.

The reason this stands out, is that MANY people believe that the “National Firearms Act of 1934 was the pivotal law, the first of the UNconstitutional laws. Thereby “starting” an ever widening path, allowing for further infringements. Not so, the NRA was first in 1932.

"The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate
and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol, revolver ammunition.

The NRA supported legislation to amend the “Federal Firearms Act” in regard to handguns when it was introduced in August, 1963.

In 1965, the NRA continued its support of an expansion of the above legislation to include rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns.
Additionally the NRA supported the regulation of the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:
1. Requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;
2. Providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;
3. Requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;
4. Prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;
5. Providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce, and;
6. Increasing penalties for violation.

NRA HELPED WRITE the 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards.

*****

“Project EXILE” IS the NRA’s very own project.
NRA'S project (EXILE) supports ALL UNconstitutional gun laws. Handgun Control Inc. supports it TOO. NRA-ILA Executive Director James Jay Baker commented, "I'm glad that the president has finally agreed with the NRA that enforcing federal firearms laws makes sense. We've been pushing for more enforcement of existing laws.
Did anyone tell them that ALL of the 20,000 gun laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL???
OF COURSE Handgun Control Inc. supports this NRA project.

*****

Schools
Then NRA Executive Vice President Wayne R. LaPierre, Jr., made these damaging statements during his nationally televised speech at the Denver NRA Members Meeting May 1, 1999. "First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel.”

All across the country, school boards and state legislators started doing precisely what LaPierre suggested: shutting down school riflery programs, prohibiting historical firearms displays, forbidding hunter safety training with unloaded guns, and banning gun possession by teachers and other adults with carry licenses. A good example of the long range implications of what LaPierre endorsed back then, is the recent tragedy at Virginia Tech.

Making schools a “gun free zone” where lunatics can murder with impunity, was his response to the Columbine shootings? What happened to advocating responsible carry, by responsible citizens???

*****

LaPierre also blessed gun show background checks by saying: "We will consider instant checks at gun shows when, and only when, this Administration stops (charging for NICS checks) and stops illegally compiling the records of millions of lawful gun buyers."

The next day President Charlton Heston flatly said on ABC "This Week" that he was "in favor of" gun show background checks. Within weeks, bills for gun show background checks - and "youth gun access" bans - had been submitted in both houses of Congress!

*****

First amendment rights?
Was it the National Rifle Association that had ONE OF IT’S OWN MEMBERS, a pro-gun activist, ARRESTED at its national convention on, April 27, 2003 in Orlando, Florida for handing out PRO-gun freedom literature from an organization known as the Free State Project, Inc. The unlucky NRA member was Timothy Condon, a Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and Director of Member Services for the rapidly growing Free State Project.