LAPD manhunt for one of their own - Christopher Dorner

[Ronin13]

People have been killed for a lot less, wars have started over less.

While I do not condone what he is doing, I completely understand it. Ever been bullied? Didya fight back only to have some smart ass limp wrist teacher tell you that you should have walked away? Well thats what this guy is doing, and in his view his life is over. He was fired, branded a liar, forced to leave the Navy, and pretty much had everything he felt he had earned in life, taken from him. Is this the truth? Who fucking knows, but HE BELIEVES it to be true. Is there a conspiracy in the LAPD? Well duh, why do you think a bunch of cops that beat the shit out of a guy on video are still employeed and promoted there? OBVIOUSLY there is a lot fucked up about the LAPD, and this guy is wearing his heart on his sleeve and all pissy about it.
Do I, personally, agree with his actions? No. DO I think he should be put down like a rabid dog? Not really, he broke the law and should have his day in court. What would I do in this situation? No idea, I am a different person with different values. Is this guy batshit crazy? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is conducting a psyop action that gains him sympathy for being disturbed, a plausible defense should he be taken alive, and possibly puts his pursuers a little off thier game thinking they are not chasing a capable, rational, cunning individual but a malfunctioning disturbed one. Not taking this guy seriously and dismissing him as a lunatic is dangerous, IMHO.

With this, I do have to say that yes, I've been through the very scenario you described- in fact after being physically attacked while cornered the school still said I should have walked away. But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples here. Just because people have been killed for less still makes it wrong what this guy is doing. Without getting into too much of a debate about the King incident, Rodney King was high as a kite, driving in excess, resisting arrest, and it was decided that the cops' use of force was text book and justified, take that as you may, but I find that whole thing blown out of proportion by racial tension. You all who think that this guy was just a normal guy pushed too far and finally reached the end of his rope need to look at this from a different perspective- stop sympathizing with him, he threw any credibility out the window when he targeted people who did no wrong and committed murder 1. And if what he says is true- as I said before, physically attacking another PD trainee (or officer) for using the "N" word is not the sign of a person who has their head on right- that's not how you manage conflict. This guy is a bad guy, no ifs, no buts, and please don't try and say "at what point would you say enough is enough?" I don't threaten killing sprees when I lose my job- regardless of if it was justified or not.

One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.

I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.

It was redacted because this guy is pro-Obama, pro-Fecalstein, and Anti-2A... it doesn't fit their agenda, he's not a fringe, racist, right wing radical.

[Ghosty]

Sorry coming in late, but guys at work (ALL pro-gun owners) actually said this guy seemed to have some legitimate gripes, and possibly got royally screwed by some other woman officer. He apparently spent years trying to clear his name, and the chief also screwed him over. I don't condone his actions by any means, and he definitely went too far. I'm just curious on the backstory on what started this rampage, since it's been building for years.

I do NOT know the details, need to read more, but maybe one of you who has read a ton the last couple days, on this guy, can you give me the synopsis?

[Dave_L]

The unfortunate part in this is we all know he won't be alive to hash out the details.

[Great-Kazoo]

With this, I do have to say that yes, I've been through the very scenario you described- in fact after being physically attacked while cornered the school still said I should have walked away. But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples here. Just because people have been killed for less still makes it wrong what this guy is doing. Without getting into too much of a debate about the King incident, Rodney King was high as a kite, driving in excess, resisting arrest, and it was decided that the cops' use of force was text book and justified, take that as you may, but I find that whole thing blown out of proportion by racial tension. You all who think that this guy was just a normal guy pushed too far and finally reached the end of his rope need to look at this from a different perspective- stop sympathizing with him, he threw any credibility out the window when he targeted people who did no wrong and committed murder 1. And if what he says is true- as I said before, physically attacking another PD trainee (or officer) for using the "N" word is not the sign of a person who has their head on right- that's not how you manage conflict. This guy is a bad guy, no ifs, no buts, and please don't try and say "at what point would you say enough is enough?" I don't threaten killing sprees when I lose my job- regardless of if it was justified or not.


It was redacted because this guy is pro-Obama, pro-Fecalstein, and Anti-2A... it doesn't fit their agenda, he's not a fringe, WHITE racist, right wing radical.

[DHC]

He used BUZZ words. Just like a resume something to catch the eye. IF (key word) he puts in to wiritng any and everything that will appeal to some portion of this country he got his wish. That being people ask questions, regarding him being innocent and or framed / crazy.
Once he killed non-le's his game changed and no longer has any validity regarding being wronged by the dept.

Either way do we condone the innocent killing / execution of innocent people? I know i do not, you?

In that 'wall of words' I wrote, you may have missed this part --> "Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions."

Of course I do not condone his actions. You may be right about him using buzz words designed to appeal to a broad audience. I've become more than a little suspicious of the entire 'manifesto' due to its manipulation. Moreover, it would seem to me to be folly to make too much of a 22-page 'manifesto' written by someone who is now on a homicidal/suicidal rampage. Still, whenever there is a tragic development such as this one, I look for 'take-aways' - what can be learned. Sometimes, it is nothing more than we need to find a more expedient method for disposing of the dregs. Sometimes, it motivates me to ask questions - of myself - as to how I might respond in similar circumstances. Whether I was duped by buzz words or not - that is what occurred in this instance. It challenged me to probe a bit of myself.

I suspect many/most of us have felt that 'authority' overstepped its bounds at some point in our lives, and I know in those instances, I always get a bit rankled. I've never gotten to the point of feeling like someone(s) took from me all that I hold dear. If that were to occur, I honestly do not know how I might react. Would I pull a 'Dorner' and seek vengeance on those I blamed? Does my lack of knowing how I would react make me unstable in some way? You see, I have witnessed first-hand that we ALL have a dark place we can get to if the circumstances warrant. We are ALL capable of things we'd rather not be public - and maybe not even admitted to ourselves. This guy - if it really is as it seems to be - got to that place and acted on it. We see members of this site mention their intentions in the event authority oversteps the boundaries they have drawn for themselves. Where that boundary is drawn is different for each of us. While I feel confident the set of facts that pushed Dorner over the edge would not have the same effect on me - a different fact pattern that resulted in my feeling hopeless and wronged and with nothing to lose and no future - that might. Can you, or anyone, honestly say different?

None of this condones his actions to go on a killing spree. And I hope nothing I wrote leads anyone to believe I condone these killings.

[DomEOD]

Problem is nutcases dont generally manage to get a bunch of security clearances and lead security forces in the Navy if you are barely holding it together. I think he is a trained individual dealing with his issues the best way he can make sense of it. Real or not, he feels betrayed and lied to, by people he was supposed to be able to trust with his life, and he has decided to fix the situation. He obviously knows he will be killed, so its equally obvious he wants to call attention to a specific set of circumstances. Sometimes, right or wrong, someone chooses to fight rather than be a victim. In his mind, he is a victim and he is fighting back. You dont have to agree with him ( I dont) , and it is not worse because he is targeting cops. Easy answer is dont be a crooked cop, dont get shot, since he seems to be going out of his way to only shoot people he feels (or has knowledge of) being dirty.

Getting a TS/TCI clearance is actually pretty damn easy in the military.. All you need is a background check and good credit.

[DomEOD]

Agreed on some points. It is not at all trivial to acquire TS/SCI. If I recall correctly, that involved a full lifestyle background investigation and comprehensive polygraph.

As for his targets, some of his warnings led me to believe he would not restrict himself to only those specifically targeted and there may be collateral damage of innocents. It made me think he intended to be indiscriminate once underway. Not sure of his current victims support that or not.

No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.

[TheGrey]

No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.

I'm confused- are you referencing the TS/SCI clearance for the military? They do a full lifestyle background check, which means face-to-face interviews with people from your hometown, as well as checking for various classes of misdemeanors. The poly depends on your job.

Or did they change the standards of the TS/SCI?

[HoneyBadger]

I'm confused- are you referencing the TS/SCI clearance for the military? They do a full lifestyle background check, which means face-to-face interviews with people from your hometown, as well as checking for various classes of misdemeanors. The poly depends on your job.

Or did they change the standards of the TS/SCI?

I have been FTF interviewed for a friend's TS clearance... as of last year, this is still how they do things.

[DHC]

No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.

Could be it is different for government contractors. I distinctly recall the TS/SCI being significantly more intrusive than a TS alone. It takes longer to complete the background investigation and the lifestyle poly is a b!tch. As you suggest, maybe active/reserve military has a more streamlined process.