LAPD manhunt for one of their own - Christopher Dorner

[hollohas]

This dude was a Riverine with a Marksman qualifcation on the rifle. He is by no means a sniper like the media keeps saying and he isn't special ops. He's thinks his shit don't stink but there are no doubt men much more experienced than him hunting him right now.

[Melvin]

This thread has been great for exposing the hypocrisy of a lot of people around here. Especially the ones who would have you believe from their signatures etc that they all have the "Don't tread on me" philosophy to life. Yet when another person reaches the point of pushing back they are the first to jump on the bandwagon to decry and lampoon him with nothing more that hearsay from the state run media. I hope you get the opportunity to walk a mile in shoes of the oppressed one day so that the world might get a chance to see how a hypocrite deals with being stood on.

[Ronin13]

This thread has been great for exposing the hypocrisy of a lot of people around here. Especially the ones who would have you believe from their signatures etc that they all have the "Don't tread on me" philosophy to life. Yet when another person reaches the point of pushing back they are the first to jump on the bandwagon to decry and lampoon him with nothing more that hearsay from the state run media. I hope you get the opportunity to walk a mile in shoes of the oppressed one day so that the world might get a chance to see how a hypocrite deals with being stood on.

Hypocrisy? Wow... in the words of Ronald Reagan- "There you go again." It's not pushing back when you threaten to murder people's families. It's not being oppressed when you choke out someone for calling you an ethnic slur. It's not being stood on when you make threats against an entire department just because YOU believe they're in on some big conspiracy.

[DHC]

Hypocrisy? Wow... in the words of Ronald Reagan- "There you go again." It's not pushing back when you threaten to murder people's families. It's not being oppressed when you choke out someone for calling you an ethnic slur. It's not being stood on when you make threats against an entire department just because YOU believe they're in on some big conspiracy.

Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.

I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.

The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.

Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?

THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.

Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.

[Melvin]

Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.

I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.

The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.

Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?

THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.

Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.

Ditto.

[Great-Kazoo]

Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.

I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.

The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.

Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?

THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.

Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.

He used BUZZ words. Just like a resume something to catch the eye. IF (key word) he puts in to wiritng any and everything that will appeal to some portion of this country he got his wish. That being people ask questions, regarding him being innocent and or framed / crazy.
Once he killed non-le's his game changed and no longer has any validity regarding being wronged by the dept.

Either way do we condone the innocent killing / execution of innocent people? I know i do not, you?

[Ronin13]

People have been killed for a lot less, wars have started over less.

While I do not condone what he is doing, I completely understand it. Ever been bullied? Didya fight back only to have some smart ass limp wrist teacher tell you that you should have walked away? Well thats what this guy is doing, and in his view his life is over. He was fired, branded a liar, forced to leave the Navy, and pretty much had everything he felt he had earned in life, taken from him. Is this the truth? Who fucking knows, but HE BELIEVES it to be true. Is there a conspiracy in the LAPD? Well duh, why do you think a bunch of cops that beat the shit out of a guy on video are still employeed and promoted there? OBVIOUSLY there is a lot fucked up about the LAPD, and this guy is wearing his heart on his sleeve and all pissy about it.
Do I, personally, agree with his actions? No. DO I think he should be put down like a rabid dog? Not really, he broke the law and should have his day in court. What would I do in this situation? No idea, I am a different person with different values. Is this guy batshit crazy? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is conducting a psyop action that gains him sympathy for being disturbed, a plausible defense should he be taken alive, and possibly puts his pursuers a little off thier game thinking they are not chasing a capable, rational, cunning individual but a malfunctioning disturbed one. Not taking this guy seriously and dismissing him as a lunatic is dangerous, IMHO.

With this, I do have to say that yes, I've been through the very scenario you described- in fact after being physically attacked while cornered the school still said I should have walked away. But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples here. Just because people have been killed for less still makes it wrong what this guy is doing. Without getting into too much of a debate about the King incident, Rodney King was high as a kite, driving in excess, resisting arrest, and it was decided that the cops' use of force was text book and justified, take that as you may, but I find that whole thing blown out of proportion by racial tension. You all who think that this guy was just a normal guy pushed too far and finally reached the end of his rope need to look at this from a different perspective- stop sympathizing with him, he threw any credibility out the window when he targeted people who did no wrong and committed murder 1. And if what he says is true- as I said before, physically attacking another PD trainee (or officer) for using the "N" word is not the sign of a person who has their head on right- that's not how you manage conflict. This guy is a bad guy, no ifs, no buts, and please don't try and say "at what point would you say enough is enough?" I don't threaten killing sprees when I lose my job- regardless of if it was justified or not.

One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.

I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.

It was redacted because this guy is pro-Obama, pro-Fecalstein, and Anti-2A... it doesn't fit their agenda, he's not a fringe, racist, right wing radical.

[Great-Kazoo]

With this, I do have to say that yes, I've been through the very scenario you described- in fact after being physically attacked while cornered the school still said I should have walked away. But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples here. Just because people have been killed for less still makes it wrong what this guy is doing. Without getting into too much of a debate about the King incident, Rodney King was high as a kite, driving in excess, resisting arrest, and it was decided that the cops' use of force was text book and justified, take that as you may, but I find that whole thing blown out of proportion by racial tension. You all who think that this guy was just a normal guy pushed too far and finally reached the end of his rope need to look at this from a different perspective- stop sympathizing with him, he threw any credibility out the window when he targeted people who did no wrong and committed murder 1. And if what he says is true- as I said before, physically attacking another PD trainee (or officer) for using the "N" word is not the sign of a person who has their head on right- that's not how you manage conflict. This guy is a bad guy, no ifs, no buts, and please don't try and say "at what point would you say enough is enough?" I don't threaten killing sprees when I lose my job- regardless of if it was justified or not.


It was redacted because this guy is pro-Obama, pro-Fecalstein, and Anti-2A... it doesn't fit their agenda, he's not a fringe, WHITE racist, right wing radical.

[DHC]

He used BUZZ words. Just like a resume something to catch the eye. IF (key word) he puts in to wiritng any and everything that will appeal to some portion of this country he got his wish. That being people ask questions, regarding him being innocent and or framed / crazy.
Once he killed non-le's his game changed and no longer has any validity regarding being wronged by the dept.

Either way do we condone the innocent killing / execution of innocent people? I know i do not, you?

In that 'wall of words' I wrote, you may have missed this part --> "Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions."

Of course I do not condone his actions. You may be right about him using buzz words designed to appeal to a broad audience. I've become more than a little suspicious of the entire 'manifesto' due to its manipulation. Moreover, it would seem to me to be folly to make too much of a 22-page 'manifesto' written by someone who is now on a homicidal/suicidal rampage. Still, whenever there is a tragic development such as this one, I look for 'take-aways' - what can be learned. Sometimes, it is nothing more than we need to find a more expedient method for disposing of the dregs. Sometimes, it motivates me to ask questions - of myself - as to how I might respond in similar circumstances. Whether I was duped by buzz words or not - that is what occurred in this instance. It challenged me to probe a bit of myself.

I suspect many/most of us have felt that 'authority' overstepped its bounds at some point in our lives, and I know in those instances, I always get a bit rankled. I've never gotten to the point of feeling like someone(s) took from me all that I hold dear. If that were to occur, I honestly do not know how I might react. Would I pull a 'Dorner' and seek vengeance on those I blamed? Does my lack of knowing how I would react make me unstable in some way? You see, I have witnessed first-hand that we ALL have a dark place we can get to if the circumstances warrant. We are ALL capable of things we'd rather not be public - and maybe not even admitted to ourselves. This guy - if it really is as it seems to be - got to that place and acted on it. We see members of this site mention their intentions in the event authority oversteps the boundaries they have drawn for themselves. Where that boundary is drawn is different for each of us. While I feel confident the set of facts that pushed Dorner over the edge would not have the same effect on me - a different fact pattern that resulted in my feeling hopeless and wronged and with nothing to lose and no future - that might. Can you, or anyone, honestly say different?

None of this condones his actions to go on a killing spree. And I hope nothing I wrote leads anyone to believe I condone these killings.