LAPD manhunt for one of their own - Christopher Dorner

[Dave_L]

Melvin, nothing that happened to him justified killing two civilians and a cop.

And that's exactly what people will say if they come for your guns and someone gets shot. The cops were just enforcing the law...

I'm not siding one way or the other but people have their limits. The general mentality on here is molon labe but to a lot of civilians, that's crazy talk. Whatever it was that caused this guy to go off the cliff was obviously enough to warrant killing, in his mind. Right or wrong isn't always determined by the law in people's minds. If that was the case, we all better start gift wrapping our "assault" weapons and hand them over because the law could say so pretty soon.

[DHC]

Hypocrisy? Wow... in the words of Ronald Reagan- "There you go again." It's not pushing back when you threaten to murder people's families. It's not being oppressed when you choke out someone for calling you an ethnic slur. It's not being stood on when you make threats against an entire department just because YOU believe they're in on some big conspiracy.

Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.

I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.

The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.

Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?

THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.

Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.

[Melvin]

The bandwagon mentality.

[Melvin]

Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.

I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.

The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.

Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?

THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.

Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.

Ditto.

[DHC]

The bandwagon mentality.

Sorry, I missed your point. It seems I often find myself asking people to clarify when they post cryptic or sarcastic responses - in this case a cryptic response. Perhaps it is my limited cognitive abilities, but I prefer to think it is that I sincerely want to understand the points being made and do not want to draw a conclusion without benefit of the other person's express statement.

All that by way of saying.. Huh?

[Ronin13]

And that's exactly what people will say if they come for your guns and someone gets shot. The cops were just enforcing the law...

Huge difference between an illegitimate unprovoked attack on people, and the defense of your home/property/life from an unconstitutional powergrab.

[Melvin]

Huge difference between an illegitimate unprovoked attack on people, and the defense of your home/property/life from an unconstitutional powergrab.

Who says it is illegitimate? You? Who says it was unprovoked? There are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.

And by the way is the unconstitutional power grab not an illegitimate unprovoked attack??

[DHC]

Huge difference between an illegitimate unprovoked attack on people, and the defense of your home/property/life from an unconstitutional powergrab.

Ronin, to Dorner the attacks *are* legitimate - just as legitimate as the hypothetical "unconstitutional powergrab" you reference. The fact pattern is different, but there are very clear parallels to be drawn. It becomes a matter of degree in multiple dimension. What amount of injustice by authorities will inspire you to take action? What actions will you take - graduated or 'all-in'? Lots of parallels to be drawn.

None of this is to be interpreted as defense of his killing spree.

FWIW

[Ronin13]

Who says it is illegitimate? You? Who says it was unprovoked? There are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.

And by the way is the unconstitutional power grab not an illegitimate unprovoked attack??

Ronin, to Dorner the attacks *are* legitimate - just as legitimate as the hypothetical "unconstitutional powergrab" you reference. The fact pattern is different, but there are very clear parallels to be drawn. It becomes a matter of degree in multiple dimension. What amount of injustice by authorities will inspire you to take action? What actions will you take - graduated or 'all-in'? Lots of parallels to be drawn.

None of this is to be interpreted as defense of his killing spree.

FWIW

I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).

[Melvin]

Sorry, I missed your point. It seems I often find myself asking people to clarify when they post cryptic or sarcastic responses - in this case a cryptic response. Perhaps it is my limited cognitive abilities, but I prefer to think it is that I sincerely want to understand the points being made and do not want to draw a conclusion without benefit of the other person's express statement.

All that by way of saying.. Huh?

Watch it again. Mob mentality. No forethought of action.