Holding a firearm during BG Check.

[brutal]

I still don't get it.

When the wait time was up to 7-8 days and I had some lowers due in, I'd gone in and filled out 4473 while guns were still in transit, not yet received by the FFL.

I'm pretty sure the FFL submitted the BGC without any item serials, possibly even without descriptions. The BGC is also good for 30 days, so guns can be added to it at any time.

[cysoto]

^^ Yes, agreed. However, in the the OP, the concern was; how does a transfer take place to avoid loss to all involved. I said; no need for the FFL to even take possession until the BGC clears. so in this case; buyer/seller meet at FFL office. seller brings gun, FFL verifies Make, Model, SN, buyer fills out 4473 and FFL submits. Buyer/ Seller go home until it clears, (seller keeps gun with him), BGC clears, they come back, FFL logs it as R&D, collects the $$$. Everyone goes bye bye. No need for the FFL to log it until the transfer is ready to go.....

Ahh... Gotcha! That makes sense.

[10mm-man]

I still don't get it.

When the wait time was up to 7-8 days and I had some lowers due in, I'd gone in and filled out 4473 while guns were still in transit, not yet received by the FFL.

I'm pretty sure the FFL submitted the BGC without any item serials, possibly even without descriptions. The BGC is also good for 30 days, so guns can be added to it at any time.

While some FFL's prob did so, the supervisor at the CBI said they have prosecuted for such things and were successful! Was told we need- Make, model, Sn and 4473 filled out and signed.

And NO guns can not be ADDED at anytime once the transfer is complete. meaning you can't go buy one and then come back 25 days later and add another to the original 4473.

[cysoto]

...I'd gone in and filled out 4473 while guns were still in transit, not yet received by the FFL.

That's illegal. Had they been audited by the BATF and been found to be running background checks without having the guns in their possession, their FFL could have been revoked.

[10mm-man]

That's illegal. Had they been audited by the BATF and been found to be running background checks without having the guns in their possession, their FFL could have been revoked.

Not entirely true- you don't need the gun in hand. illegal if you run the BGC without the make, model, Sn. (I was told by the CBI if you have those things while waiting for a gun in transit from another FFL, it was ok) And you can't do the transfer without it in hand, logged R&D.


(I'm not a lawyer or member of ATF, CBI, so take it what it's worth)

[cysoto]

Not entirely true- you don't need the gun in hand.

As I mentioned above, I don't have knowledge of a specific statute that addresses this but I do remember that, when we went through our interview with the BATF Inspector prior to getting our FFL, he did mention that we needed to physically inspect the serial number ourselves. I don't remember him saying that we had to have the firearm on hand but I understood what he said as "when you sign the 4473, you are affirming that that you personally checked all the information concerning both the firearm as well as the buyer's contact information" (taken from his/her DL).

Like SAFriday said, I do it this way all the time because, in the end, it is my ass that's on the line. Yes, the BATF Inspectors scare me a little bit... :-P

[10mm-man]

As I mentioned above, I don't have knowledge of a specific statute that addresses this but I do remember that, when we went through our interview with the BATF Inspector prior to getting our FFL, he did mention that we needed to physically inspect the serial number ourselves. I don't remember him saying that we had to have the firearm on hand but I understood what he said as "when you sign the 4473, you are affirming that that you personally checked all the information concerning both the firearm as well as the buyer's contact information" (taken from his/her DL).

Like SAFriday said, I do it this way all the time because, in the end, it is my ass that's on the line. Yes, the BATF Inspectors scare me a little bit... :-P

^ I do agree with you on that and that is the way to keep yourself safe! I thought; what would happen if the FFL gave you the wrong sn also. I have yet to do it because as humans we make mistakes and I too don't want a "Red Flag" when an audit comes. I want them in and out fast but just making the point that it "can be done" according to CBI and current regs as i haven't found anything contrary.

[brutal]

Surely then, I'm mistaken and misunderstood what the FFL told me.

[10mm-man]

Surely then, I'm mistaken and misunderstood what the FFL told me.

I doubt you misunderstood- I was told by others that FFL's were doing such. i was even told by the CBI supervisor and an investigator that FFL'S have done what you said and been prosecuted for it. I was then told the right way (in their eyes) how to do it. But as stated by cysoto might want to error on caution and do it like he said.

[BlasterBob]

And you can't do the transfer without it in hand, logged R&D.

+1. This is what I have been trying to convey in my posts above.