Holding a firearm during BG Check.

[BlasterBob]

Holding the firearm during BG Check?

Just kinda wondering how it'll work.

So the seller and buyer both face the FFL dealer with a firearm that they want to sell/buy and comply with the "probable" upcoming required Back Ground Check covering individual to individual type transfers. The firearm is physically handed over to the FFL dealer, the Form 4473 is executed and the phone call is made and the firearm is placed in the FFL's records and firearms inventory. The wait is more than a day or so, prompting the buyer and seller go back home to return at a later date when clearance is finally received. In the meantime, there is a serious fire in the FFL's shop destroying the subject firearm OR there is a burglary and this firearm is stolen or mysteriously disappears from the shop. Is the FFL dealer going to be liable for the firearm or is he/she going to hopefully have the seller/buyer sign a release of liability covering the loss of the firearm. The State of Colorado is more or less responsible for requiring that BGC so what is going to be expected of the State since they required the transfer to be covered by a BG Check by a FFL dealer- that can't be completed on the same day?
If the buyer of a firearm is totally cleared by the CBI and the buyer goes out and immediately shoots someone with that particular firearm, the State has already indicated that the buyer is OK to have the firearm, are they (the State) in ANY way responsible for "allowing" the transaction to be completed on their OK? It is going to be extremely important that the municipal LEO's and any other responsible individuals to update any criminal activity or serious mental problems on a TIMELY BASIS with the CBI so that the CBI can be up to date on their info to clear prospective buyers.

[gos]

I didn't think background checks themselves had specific firearms linked to them. The CBI printout I've gotten in the past makes no mention of the item I was purchasing.

If the background check is going to get logged, let the BG check pass, THEN you turn over the gun through the FFL to be given to the new owner, IMO.

[BlasterBob]

I didn't think background checks themselves had specific firearms linked to them. The CBI printout I've gotten in the past makes no mention of the item I was purchasing.

If the background check is going to get logged, let the BG check pass, THEN you turn over the gun through the FFL to be given to the new owner, IMO.

So far, the CBI does not require serial numbers and total description, but I am referring to the "probable" upcoming BG Checks to be performed for FTF transfers that will HAVE to be made through FFL dealers, as may be made necessary by the new requirements IF they do pass and become law. Those, according to what is expected to pass, will be required to be run through the FFL dealers official records and they will be held by the dealer until CBI clearance is received. Right?

[10mm-man]

I didn't think background checks themselves had specific firearms linked to them. The CBI printout I've gotten in the past makes no mention of the item I was purchasing.

If the background check is going to get logged, let the BG check pass, THEN you turn over the gun through the FFL to be given to the new owner, IMO.

It would make sense to have the owner hold on to it until the BCG clears and then do the transfer. Sound like a mess brewing, doesn't it.........


^^^ to your post above; Were does it say I would have to take possession on the day I submit the BCG? Not sure it does; so running it through my books on at the time the transfer takes place would be ok. Speculation on this of course; we will have to wait and see....

[BlasterBob]

It would make sense to have the owner hold on to it until the BCG clears and then do the transfer. Sound like a mess brewing, doesn't it.........

I agree, it will be a super "mess".
If this new piece of crap (legislation) does pass, it appears that the FFL will have to hold the firearm until the CBI clearance is received. He will most likely be required to enter it into his disposition book/log. If there is a delay in receiving the CBI clearance, that gun will most likely be expected to be on hand at the dealers place in the unlikely event BATF pays the FFL a visit wanting to make certain that ALL firearms that are logged in to his records are on hand for their inspection. This is only my opinion on how it'll probably work. Hope I am wrong though. This may not apply to the Colorado State BG Check for FTF transfers but I'll bet it will apply to the Universal BG Check that YOUR President wants to pass.

[10mm-man]

I agree, it will be a super "mess".
If this new piece of crap (legislation) does pass, it appears that the FFL will have to hold the firearm until the CBI clearance is received. He will most likely be required to enter it into his disposition book/log. If there is a delay in receiving the CBI clearance, that gun will most likely be expected to be on hand at the dealers place in the unlikely event BATF pays the FFL a visit wanting to make certain that ALL firearms that are logged in to his records are on hand for their inspection. This is only my opinion on how it'll probably work. Hope I am wrong though. This may not apply to the Colorado State BG Check for FTF transfers but I'll bet it will apply to the Universal BG Check that YOUR President wants to pass.

Ok, it isn't law yet but let's pretend it is; Were does it say I need to take possession of the gun to do a BGC? I would let you hold the gun until it cleared and then log it and transfer it. No law saying i need the gun on the books before a BCG. If so, show me....

[brutal]

It would make sense to have the owner hold on to it until the BCG clears and then do the transfer. Sound like a mess brewing, doesn't it.........


^^^ to your post above; Were does it say I would have to take possession on the day I submit the BCG? Not sure it does; so running it through my books on at the time the transfer takes place would be ok. Speculation on this of course; we will have to wait and see....

I'm no FFL, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.

Due to the wait times experienced, I have to think I'm not the only one that has been "pre-filing" 4473 for transfers for guns ordered but not shipped. Since the BGC is good for 30 days, has no item disclosure when submitted, and can cover multiple purchases/transfers, I can't imagine any case where CO could override the Fed side of the 4473 regs.

So my theory would be owner maintains possession until actual transfer takes place.

My hope is that the BS bills die.

[10mm-man]

I'm no FFL, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.

Due to the wait times experienced, I have to think I'm not the only one that has been "pre-filing" 4473 for transfers for guns ordered but not shipped. Since the BGC is good for 30 days, has no item disclosure when submitted, and can cover multiple purchases/transfers, I can't imagine any case where CO could override the Fed side of the 4473 regs.

So my theory would be owner maintains possession until actual transfer takes place.

My hope is that the BS bills die.

Which holiday inn did you stay at? - FFL only needs make, model, serial number to run BCG. i would let the owner keep it until it cleared to reduce the laibility!!

[MAP]

My understanding of the bill is that all transfers will be standard FFL transfers.

Seller gives gun to FFL who then logs it into his books. Buyers fills out 4473. FFL conducts (no so) instant check with CBI. Upon approval FFL gives gun to buyer and logs out in his book. Dealer must now retain 4473 pursuant to Federal Law.

Mike

[merl]

Ok, it isn't law yet but let's pretend it is; Were does it say I need to take possession of the gun to do a BGC? I would let you hold the gun until it cleared and then log it and transfer it. No law saying i need the gun on the books before a BCG. If so, show me....

it says you have to treat it exactly the same as you would treat a retail transfer.

This wording seems pretty clear to me, you record it in your book. I doubt you'll want anything in your book not physically in your shop.

(b) ALICENSED GUN DEALER WHO OBTAINS A BACKGROUND CHECK
ON A PROSPECTIVE TRANSFEREE SHALL RECORD THE TRANSFER,AS
PROVIDED IN SECTION 12-26-102, C.R.S.,AND RETAIN THE RECORDS,AS
PROVIDED IN SECTION 12-26-103, C.R.S.,IN THE SAME MANNER AS WHEN
CONDUCTING A SALE,RENTAL,OR EXCHANGE AT RETAIL. THE LICENSED
GUN DEALER SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS,
INCLUDING 18 U.S.C.SEC. 922,AS IF HE OR SHE WERE TRANSFERRING THE
FIREARM FROM HIS OR HER INVENTORY TO THE PROSPECTIVE TRANSFEREE.

I'll admit I have not read section 12-26-102 and 103 though.