Long Position on Silver and Gold?

[Sawin]

No one is nitpicking, simply pointing out that people don't really have a way to identify of something is good or not based on the appearance of the metal. Kind of like the difference between a certified pre-owned vehicle and one that is not. They may equal in value, but realistically the "certified" one will be easier to unload as more uninformed buyers will feel comfortable with the purchase.

As far as coin collecting goes, it'd be hard to have a coin collection of stuff with no markings.

I can accept that and definitely agree as a consumer I would much prefer a certified "anything" to a non-certified one... Recognizable products are important too. The cross section of buyers in the market who are at least interested in name brand merchandise is notably higher, and profit margins on their merchandise is also higher... all good things.

But let me put it this way since everyone seems to want to deal with hypotheticals today. Not you Irving, just most other responders thus far.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the purpose of buying physical PM's for someone is solely to diversify out of USD's for any number of reasons, and they only intend to sell it if substantial gains can be realized. Otherwise, they'll just keep it forever and pass it along to heirs...and THERE IS NOT A SHTF SCENARIO... so they will NOT be selling it or trading it, etc. They are not trying to "invest" in PM's, it is just an insurance policy that they will never be "broke".

Let's say this person has 1 trillion ounces of silver.
When that person goes to sell their 1 trillion ounces of silver to a reputable businessman, will they or will they not be reported to the IRS for capital gains purposes, or any other purpose, if their silver is entirely ASE's?

Is the answer the same if their silver is entirely NON-ASE's?

Is there a known weight or value threshold where the answer changes?

I am seeing conflicting answers all over the web, however, considering the number of places I've consistently seen (this afternoon) that states the sale of ASE's are not reported to the IRS, irrespective of the number of ounces, I'm inclined to say I have my answer.... I was just hoping to learn from my peers here if someone is more informed with a better source than just some random sites on the internet like me.

[crays]

Current laws/regs/etc regarding reporting are a moot point. You know the Administration of the day will back-door new rules and regs BEFORE they publicly announce any confiscation, especially if it's the filthy s#!tbags in office right now.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I can accept that and definitely agree as a consumer I would much prefer a certified "anything" to a non-certified one... Recognizable products are important too. The cross section of buyers in the market who are at least interested in name brand merchandise is notably higher, and profit margins on their merchandise is also higher... all good things.

But let me put it this way since everyone seems to want to deal with hypotheticals today. Not you Irving, just most other responders thus far.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the purpose of buying physical PM's for someone is solely to diversify out of USD's for any number of reasons, and they only intend to sell it if substantial gains can be realized. Otherwise, they'll just keep it forever and pass it along to heirs...and THERE IS NOT A SHTF SCENARIO... so they will NOT be selling it or trading it, etc. They are not trying to "invest" in PM's, it is just an insurance policy that they will never be "broke".

Let's say this person has 1 trillion ounces of silver.
When that person goes to sell their 1 trillion ounces of silver to a reputable businessman, will they or will they not be reported to the IRS for capital gains purposes, or any other purpose, if their silver is entirely ASE's?

Is the answer the same if their silver is entirely NON-ASE's?

Is there a known weight or value threshold where the answer changes?

I am seeing conflicting answers all over the web, however, considering the number of places I've consistently seen (this afternoon) that states the sale of ASE's are not reported to the IRS, irrespective of the number of ounces, I'm inclined to say I have my answer.... I was just hoping to learn from my peers here if someone is more informed with a better source than just some random sites on the internet like me.

Larger dealers will give you 1099B form upon transaction larger than $10k - but again this applies to any object/futures/stock you sold beyond this amount. Most dealers I deal with only deal in cash or simply don't care. It is your duty to report your 'profit,' not dealers'

PS I might be outdated on the number as I heard IRS is updating the requirement down to merely few hundred bucks.

[Sawin]

Current laws/regs/etc regarding reporting are a moot point. You know the Administration of the day will back-door new rules and regs BEFORE they publicly announce any confiscation, especially if it's the filthy s#!tbags in office right now.

haha, well that's undoubtedly a true statement.

[Sawin]

Larger dealers will give you 1099B form upon transaction larger than $10k - but again this applies to any object/futures/stock you sold beyond this amount. Most dealers I deal with only deal in cash or simply don't care. It is your duty to report your 'profit,' not dealers'

PS I might be outdated on the number as I heard IRS is updating the requirement down to merely few hundred bucks.

Thank you, Ken. This is precisely what I'm seeing online as well, so it's evidently a very gray and evolving area... I've heard $600, $10,000, 1000oz of silver, 25 oz of gold, and sundry other numbers... I'm just trying to find out which it is for real.

[sellersm]

Current laws/regs/etc regarding reporting are a moot point. You know the Administration of the day will back-door new rules and regs BEFORE they publicly announce any confiscation, especially if it's the filthy s#!tbags in office right now.

^This. Even if it's under a tax code somewhere, many of those are being revised right now due to O-care... What is it now? The O-care "law" is over 12 Million words now? And it's not finished yet.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Thank you, Ken. This is precisely what I'm seeing online as well, so it's evidently a very gray and evolving area... I've heard $600, $10,000, 1000oz of silver, 25 oz of gold, and sundry other numbers... I'm just trying to find out which it is for real.

There are alot of stories being told by crappy companies such as goldline, but these are sales pitch to sell 'collector' value. Keep in mind, US Congress removed president's authority to regulate gold and silver in 1977.

Proceed as you were to purchase any other valuable item. If it's in record, who says that the big brother will not come and confiscate it one day. If it's a huge profit, it is your responsible to report it as income. No difference from any other item such as guns (well at least prior to July 1).

[Sawin]

^This. Even if it's under a tax code somewhere, many of those are being revised right now due to O-care... What is it now? The O-care "law" is over 12 Million words now? And it's not finished yet.

Well there we have it gents. All this confusion and bickering is Obamacare's fault. Rightfully so.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Well there we have it gents. All this confusion and bickering is Obamacare's fault. Rightfully so.

Yeah, but if you read the fine print on page 28404 section 8, it says:

"All Bush's fault"

[sellersm]

A word from Richard Russell today: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...6_Mankind.html

A few thoughts about gold. Never buy gold for a profit, gold is a measure of wealth. Count your gold holdings in the number of ounces, not the current worth in dollars. You don’t price the home you live in every day, or with each passing week. Nor should you price your gold holdings in dollars with each passing day. Gold is a timeless wealth asset; an asset that will have a value with the passing of time.

Remember this: Of the original issues that made up the Industrial Average, only one remains. And that stock is General Electric. And what happened to all the rest? In investing, nothing is permanent except gold. But remember, do not buy gold with the idea of making a profit. Buy gold because it is pure wealth, and may be the last man standing.

Late Notes -- With gold down 3 points today, the gold mining stocks were all down. This is tax loss selling. Keep your eye on the bullion price. The Dow continues to push up as expected, although warnings are coming out of the woodwork from every direction. Money managers are afraid to leave the festivities so they will stay with the market until the bitter end.

Remember that megaphone pattern in the Dow? We're now at the upper trendline. This could take the Dow as high as 17,000 to complete the pattern.