SHTF and Mag changes

[cstone]

If you don't scrounge, someone else will.

I am a packrat. I pick up just about anything if it looks like something I could use. A few times every year I have to go through the house and get rid of stuff I don't need or haven't used. This is the only thing that keeps me from becoming a hoarder.

If I was mobile, weight and space would be limiting factors. One of the things I miss about sailing is how it forces you to appreciate the value of simplicity and economy of everything on board.

The government couldn't teach scrounging. By definition government is the source of wastefulness. I don't believe it is possible to truly appreciate anything you haven't worked for and government doesn't create anything other than laws and dependents.

Some individuals both in the mil and LE just have a natural talent for scrounging and trading. They are valuable skills that can make you friends as well as enemies.

[Great-Kazoo]

If you don't scrounge, someone else will.

I am a packrat. I pick up just about anything if it looks like something I could use. A few times every year I have to go through the house and get rid of stuff I don't need or haven't used. This is the only thing that keeps me from becoming a hoarder.

If I was mobile, weight and space would be limiting factors. One of the things I miss about sailing is how it forces you to appreciate the value of simplicity and economy of everything on board.

The government couldn't teach scrounging. By definition government is the source of wastefulness. I don't believe it is possible to truly appreciate anything you haven't worked for and government doesn't create anything other than laws and dependents.

Some individuals both in the mil and LE just have a natural talent for scrounging and trading. They are valuable skills that can make you friends as well as enemies.

You know people like that?

I would do both,Or as i call it shoot & loot. The rest is for off line discussion.

[cstone]

You know people like that?

I would do both,Or as i call it shoot & loot. The rest is for off line discussion.

No one comes to mind. At least no one I would like to put a label on

[bruceleroy]

Practice both!!

[jerrymrc]

Some individuals both in the mil and LE just have a natural talent for scrounging and trading. They are valuable skills that can make you friends as well as enemies.

I have a sign by my "area" at work that says "Sanford and Son Junkyard". I try and impart my um, skills on some of the young soldiers of today.

[cstone]

I have a sign by my "area" at work that says "Sanford and Son Junkyard". I try and impart my um, skills on some of the young soldiers of today.

I once knew a guy whose philosophy was, "It ain't stealing if no one else is going to use it." He was a great resource for hard to find things, but I tried not to use him unless it was an absolute necessity. I would never ask where anything came from. At least in the military you knew that almost everything was being paid for by the taxpayers and you were using it to accomplish a mission. I'm not sure whether that justification compromised my ethics, but in the end, the mission always comes first.

I don't know if I have ever lived in a black and white world, but I can say that at least for the last forty years, my world has been various shades of gray. Way more than 50 shades

[Mick-Boy]

The first time I was sent to Supply on a working party, the orders from my squad leader included the phrase "and you better come back with something the squad can use too."

Do M&P train to scrounge??
I ask cause I don't know.

I can't speak to the police but I'll throw some food for thought into the discussion for post-engagement TTPs (Tactics, Techniques and Procedures).

In general there are three different categories for an AO (Area of Operations).

Permissive - Host Gov't Military/Police control with support readily available (think police operating in their cities US).

Semi-permissive - Host Gov't doesn't have total control and can't effectively support operations but isn't hostile to your presence (think Iraq/Afghanistan post-invasion).

Non-permissive - Host Gov't has effective control of the AO and actively opposes operations (think Iraq/Afghanistan during pre-invasion reconnaissance or during the invasion).

Now, to extend this thinking to a SHTF situation, replace "host government" with "whoever happens to control the area". If that's you and yours, then post fight TTPs should include site exploitation.

That means policing up everything that might be useful and can be transported back to your base of operations. Intelligence, weapons, ammo, food, fuel, vehicles, etc. It's all going to depend on the security situation in the area (and therefore the amount of time you can spend in one spot after making a lot of noise) and your capability to transport whatever it is.

At the other end of the spectrum would be an engagement in a hostile area. In that case the fight would be more of a break contact and any magazines that get emptied are left where they fall. There are no pieces of equipment (normally) that are worth your life.

The old saying "to the victor go the spoils" is just as true now as it was when it was first said (although there is a good deal less rape and pillage now..). If you hold the ground at the end of the fight, and you have the bodies and weapons to keep it, you can police up whatever you want. If you don't, you can't.

[MAP]

A few years ago I had a conversation with a former Delta operator. He said during the Black Hawk Down incident everyone was dropping their mags. It created a problem when the did an ammo drop during the night. His advise was to retain your mags if you can.

YMMV

Mike

[Tinelement]

Gonna attach my pouch to my gear next time out and start working on retaining my empty mags.

Thanks for all the input Gents!

[Spartan]

I also use a dump pouch that attaches to my belt. Simple, durable and utilitarian. Just practice drop mag from rifle, deposit in pouch, grab full mag on way up and load. Muscle memory. If such situation arises where I have to put this to real-world use, I may not be too keen about hanging around and scrounging any longer than necessary. If all my mags are accounted for, I can quickly take what i can off the OPFOR and get out of the area in case he has friends or the ruckus attracts others. Get off the X ASAP.