UBC and NFA Items

[th3w01f]

Let me start by saying I have these questions out to my NFA lawyer but I thought I’d ask them here as well to get some opinions and hopefully answers.

I currently have an NFA weapon on order and since my children are beneficiaries on my trust I believe I’ll need a new trust for this item. At the moment it’s being transferred to an instate dealer so my transfer is not pending so I have time to have a new trust created.

The other more urgent piece is that I have two suppressors that are pending using my current trust. One should easily make the 7/1/13 date but the other will be close. I believe supressors are considered a ‘firearm’ by the ATF and would be subject to the UBC on 7/1/13. Can a trust be modified to remove children while the ATF transfer is pending?

Any advice would be appreciated and I’ll post updates after speaking with my lawyer.

[Great-Kazoo]

Suppressors are, Suppressors NOT A FIREARM.They are NFA and federally controlled. This panic shit is ridiculous . BURDEN is on the State.

FWIW: YOU HAVE already done a BG check by submitting the paperwork to the ATF NFA branch. Once your stamp is APPROVED, THE ATF signs off, APPROVED, your BGC has cleared and proceed to either picking up from the LGS or sending it out to be engraved.!. When you pick up a NFA item from the LGS you fill out a 4473 and guess what? They don't call it in, WHY? YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED!! BGC CHECK DONE, AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL,

[th3w01f]

Suppressors are, Suppressors NOT A FIREARM.They are NFA and federally controlled. This panic shit is ridiculous . BURDEN is on the State.

So you don't think everyone on a trust will have to do a BGC on suppressors? That would be good news.

Either way, someone with a firearm being transferred to a trust will have to deal with this. I'm sure there are a few people here that this will impact along with us having to create a seperate trust.

EDIT: Jim, part of my confusion has come from both dealers selling me suppressors said I have to do a 4473 when picking up. It doesn't look like that's actually required which I may have missed.

[Neutron]

I do believe that a suppressor is considered a "firearm". A revocable living trust can be changed or amended. A 4473 is filled out on all transfers. An individual transfer it is not run by your dealer. For a trust or LLC it is run on the person picking up the suppressor. The ATF cannot do a background check on a trust or LLC.

[ChrisC]

Neutron is correct. I am an SOT and a 4473 is required for all NFA transfers but the background check is only required if the receiving entity is NOT an individual. The background check and 4473 are done on the person receiving the item for the entity (trust, corp, LLC, etc..)

[NFATrustGuy]

Howdy folks,

As someone mentioned in another thread, I have, indeed, received a few emails on this topic this afternoon. Unfortunately, as I've said before, it's tough to analyze a hypothetical. As much as it looks like this POS bill is going to pass, there are still some variables that will [hopefully] be clarified prior to enactment. I know everyone is concerned (I am, too!), but there will be time between passage of a final bill and the July 1 date where we can all figure out the best way to mitigate the damage done.

Asking how to mitigate the potential damage at this point is kind of like asking your tax accountant how much you'll owe in additional taxes if you start a new business... There are dozens of variables involved and the number of potential answers is virtually infinite. That's sort of where we're at right now. I'm fearful that we'll still have plenty of variables even after the Bill is passed, but at least a few will be eliminated once the final Bill passes.

If it turns out that a second trust (in addition to an NFA Trust) is desirable, I will offer NFA Trust clients a significantly discounted rate for the non-NFA trust. Even now, I can't say that this is definitely the best solution. It may help avoid "transfers" but it will also depend on how "transfer" is defined and what exceptions are made.

I've been reading and re-reading 1229 all afternoon and a couple of things stand out to me at this point:

1. The Bill deals with transfers between private parties. This shouldn't impact the transfer process from a dealer to an individual or a dealer to a Trust.

2. There is an exemption (i.e., the new law doesn't apply) for transfers by operation of law... You die, your possessions pass according to your Will or your Trust. This is "by operation of law." If you become mentally incompetent and your items transfer according to provisions of your Trust or by a court's declaration of your incompetence, this is "by operation of law." What puzzles me is that the proposed 18-12-112(6)(c) seems to ONLY include an exemption for Trustees for Trusts created within a Will. We frequently create Trusts within a will when providing for minor children... The Trust comes to life and holds the assets of the parents for the benefit of the children WHEN and only WHEN both parents die. The NFA Trusts I and a bunch of other lawyers do are NOT created within a Will. The technical/legal term for a Trust created in a Will is a testamentary Trust. The fancy term for a Revocable Living Trust is an Inter Vivos Trust (a while-you're living Trust for those of you who didn't go to Catholic school or who's Latin is a bit rusty). I don't know if our legislators meant to exclude Living Trusts from the exemption, but it sure looks like that's what they're going to do if the language doesn't change.

3. Someone sent me language that gives the legislature's definition of a "Transferee" and what this means in the case of a Trust. I can't find this language in the version of the Bill that I've been reading all afternoon. I'm going to send him an email asking for clarification as soon as I'm finished typing this message. To make sure we're all on the same page, the version of the bill I'm reading can be found at: http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cli...e=1229_ren.pdf

Please somebody tell me if I'm reading from the wrong sheet of music. I've never claimed to be a political affairs expert. I'm great at following laws once they're in place, but I can't claim to have much expertise in the actual, specific governmental process in creating a new law and where this process can be followed on the internet.

Other than the treasonous assault on the Constitution, there's nothing to worry about...

Rod