Les Fletcher of Plano, TX ripped me off on Armslist - need ideas

[davsel]

I made a deal with Les Fletcher of Plano, TX through Armslist ( http://www.armslist.com/posts/110635...-carrier-group ) to purchase 2 BCGs. He had me PayPal gift $500 to Dalia.Genena@Gmail.com on Feb 21. I did not hear back from Les Fletcher ( les.fletcher@netgreenmedical.com ) until I emailed him on Feb 27 to ask about the BCGs. He replied that they "went out today." I waited until Mar 17 before I sent another email to Les, and he replied that he "will check." I have not received anything more from Les. I sent an email to Dalia Genena stating that I wanted to get in contact with Les, and she replied that she would talk to him. I have not heard back from her either.

Yes, I know, don't use PayPal, don't gift to anyone you do not completely trust, ...
I did exchange several emails and phone calls before making this transaction. But, I won't let it happen to me again.

I believe I got burned, and I would like some ideas as to how I may get at least some of my cash back. Anyone familiar with Les Fletcher or Dalia Genena in Plano, TX would be great info. All I have is email addresses and a couple of phone numbers.

Feel free to mock me for my trust, I can take it.

Thanks for any help/ideas you can provide,
Dave

ETA:
****** UPDATE ********
Today, May 28, after numerous emails, phone calls, and legal threats, I received the merchandise, that was ordered and paid for on 21 Feb, from Les Fletcher.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Sorry to hear it.. but for future transaction use paypal + escrow.com

[brobar]

*** edit ***

Removing... apparently either the wrong Les Fletcher.

[Special Ed]

Dave, have you contacted PayPal and opened a dispute? I'm not sure if their normal rules apply when the money was sent as a gift but usually if there's a product to be shipped as part of the agreement, PayPal will take the side of the buyer unless the seller can prove that the item was shipped and received. And this proof has to be in the way of online tracking.

Unfortunately I think that's the only option you have. If there's no specific product or auction or sales data tied to the transaction (such as would automatically be populated had you bought through eBay), you may be able to prove to PayPal through providing them emails of the transaction that the gift was for a product and that the seller asked for the payment as a "gift" in order to bypass paying the PayPal transaction fees. If they accept that, the seller will have to prove he sent the product and, if he can't, PayPal will debit his account and credit yours.

[henpecked]

pm sent and do what brobar says

[blacklabel]

I'm not sure how much help PayPal will be considering the payment was a gift and they don't allow payments for firearms parts. You were skirting their terms which may cause them to ignore the whole thing altogether.

[Special Ed]

This is a very good point. I hadn't read their terms so didn't know firearms parts weren't authorized.

[hatidua]

This is a very good point. I hadn't read their terms so didn't know firearms parts weren't authorized.

I think 'parts' might be OK -eBay owns Paypal and there are countless thousands, if not millions of gun parts on eBay. There are quite a few people on this very forum that have surely sold gun parts on eBay and have been paid through Paypal. The gift thing could be sticky but there's not much to lose by calling Paypal about it at this point.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I think you just learned an expensive lesson but you knew that already so here goes ...

You have three main problems. First, you have to physically find this Les Fletcher and Dalia Genena. Second, you have to prove the ones you find physically are the same people you've corresponded with. Third, you have to get legal action to get your money back.

First things first, finding them: Spokeo shows a Dalia Genena in Garland, TX (http://www.spokeo.com/search?q=Dalia...ue#:6285186471) which is fairly close to Plano and a Lester Fletcher in Sachse, TX (http://www.spokeo.com/search?q=Les+F...ue#:1226138437) which is also fairly close to Plano. Whitepages.com shows a Dalia Genena in Plano itself.

Next, proving they are who you talked to. The fact they told you Plano rather than the small towns listed in Spokeo suggests to me someone was using their names as cover but I could just be a suspicious paranoid bastard. You'll be superlucky if the phone numbers you have are close to the ones listed by Spokeo or a reverse phone number search hits the same addresses found in Spokeo or Whitepages.com. Be prepared to find out someone else used their names -- especially since one of those is a gmail account. Unfortunately, Whois.com shows netgreenmedical.com is a domain registered through a proxy in Arizona and administered by Godaddy so you're unlikely to find a human contact that knows this "Les Fletcher" except by doing a reverse phone number trace on the phone numbers they gave you.

Last, getting some money back. You could try to refine the addresses from Spokeo or Whitepages and send a registered letter containing an invoice for the $500 and copies of the Armslist listing and your e-mail correspondence and Paypal transaction log since they haven't delivered the product. Request a reply by a specific reasonable date (say 2 weeks from when you mail it). If it's a scam, the problem you've got in getting your money back is that you told Paypal it was a gift. If it's not a scam, you can file a claim against them in small claims court using the correspondence and ad as proof that it was NOT a gift and the registered letter as proof that they received the request for a refund or resolution and were unresponsive. If you're lucky enough to get a judgment against them, you MIGHT be able to sell that claim to a processor for a fraction of the damages you win from the court. You should also consider filing a wire fraud complaint but I'm not sure who you'd file it with since you didn't conduct the transaction through the USPS.

[brobar]

Dalia is (or was... who knows if she still is) a "Director of Revenue" at NetGreen Medical in Plano. http://netgreenmedical.com/

But like Aloha said... these could be names that were just used by somebody else. Stolen identities perhaps. Both Dalia and Les seem to be in IT though... so there is the potential they have a little scam going themselves. Who knows? One would think they would be smart enough not to use their real names and/or email addresses... but maybe that is giving them too much credit. hehe

Good luck. I've done all I can do to help!