Differences and similarities of civilian competition and combat shooting

[def90]

Maybe IDPA should work random paintball shooters into their matches. You have to run the course all the while you could get hit with a paintball at any moment ending the match. No cheating by wearing heavy clothing or pads either.

[SuperiorDG]

Maybe IDPA should work random paintball shooters into their matches. You have to run the course all the while you could get hit with a paintball at any moment ending the match. No cheating by wearing heavy clothing or pads either.

Only if you can shoot back.

[Aloha_Shooter]

So what if IPSC or IDPA don't replicate the true experience of combat? They are still more realistic than standing in a booth and firing at a static circle. Running solo doesn't give you the true experience of a track meet either but it doesn't keep people from going out and practicing on their own. Scrimmages aren't the same as playing against the New York Giants or New England Patriots in divisional playoffs but it doesn't keep teams from running them.

I think the author's original point -- which wasn't framed well -- is that some people take their fancy toys too seriously and don't think about how they would function in the Real World. Unfortunately, he went past that point and spawned Glock vs. 1911 debates that really miss the point as well.

[streetglideok]

So what if IPSC or IDPA don't replicate the true experience of combat? They are still more realistic than standing in a booth and firing at a static circle. Running solo doesn't give you the true experience of a track meet either but it doesn't keep people from going out and practicing on their own. Scrimmages aren't the same as playing against the New York Giants or New England Patriots in divisional playoffs but it doesn't keep teams from running them.

I think the author's original point -- which wasn't framed well -- is that some people take their fancy toys too seriously and don't think about how they would function in the Real World. Unfortunately, he went past that point and spawned Glock vs. 1911 debates that really miss the point as well.

I agree. 1911's, and you could probably throw some glocks in this too as well, are prone to getting pimped out and overbuilt. If alterations are kept strictly in check with out going overboard, ie. beavertail safety, better mags vs match barrel, comp trigger job, and porting the barrel, the guns work as designed. Its the guys who go overboard, and as we say in the auto repair business: someone stuck a crap magnet on it and ran it thru Pep Boys, who have the reliability issues, parts breaking, etc. Just right now, we see this behavior more so with 1911s, but Glocks are creeping up. Race guns are just that, for competitions and showing off. Carry/Duty/Defense/Combat guns are all about reliability foremost, and anything you do should be to enhance that. In the case of 1911s, ditch the MIM junk, and leave the Les Baers, and other guns fashioned excessively tight at home. I don't want a tight match grade chamber, or a slide that barely fits on the frame. Those are the things that create issues in real world use. I also think that the author, while a noteably qualified source, is not the best writer, and lost what he was really writing about. I think if pressed about what he wrote, its all about pimped out race guns or safe queens being used for the wrong purposes.

[275RLTW]

I agree. 1911's, and you could probably throw some glocks in this too as well, are prone to getting pimped out and overbuilt. If alterations are kept strictly in check with out going overboard, ie. beavertail safety, better mags vs match barrel, comp trigger job, and porting the barrel, the guns work as designed. Its the guys who go overboard, and as we say in the auto repair business: someone stuck a crap magnet on it and ran it thru Pep Boys, who have the reliability issues, parts breaking, etc. Just right now, we see this behavior more so with 1911s, but Glocks are creeping up. Race guns are just that, for competitions and showing off. Carry/Duty/Defense/Combat guns are all about reliability foremost, and anything you do should be to enhance that. In the case of 1911s, ditch the MIM junk, and leave the Les Baers, and other guns fashioned excessively tight at home. I don't want a tight match grade chamber, or a slide that barely fits on the frame. Those are the things that create issues in real world use. I also think that the author, while a noteably qualified source, is not the best writer, and lost what he was really writing about. I think if pressed about what he wrote, its all about pimped out race guns or safe queens being used for the wrong purposes.

There is nothing wrong with tuned guns for carry/LE/.mil applications. I know of quite a few Baers/Wilsons/Browns/STIs in use overseas with select units and groups. There are plenty of Glocks there as well. The issue is, as I think the author was alluding to, is creating something too specific to meet the unpredictability and dynamics of combat. Again, apply the saying of: mission dictates the gear

[cjmore]

Great op and excellent thread. Sounds like some are trying to make this a one gun argument. There's the right tool for the job and then there's tools that'll get the job done.

A couple folks have touched on it as did the op but environment plays a huge factor in gun selection.

Im glad I have the option to choose which gun I carry based on the situation. That includes holster, mags and caliber. Then again so do those in combat, le, competition and ccw.

[DingleBerns]

Does anybody have the 9mm vs. .45 written by "Sawman", I think it would be an interesting read as well...

[buckeye4rnr]

Does anybody have the 9mm vs. .45 written by "Sawman", I think it would be an interesting read as well...

Written by Steve Reichert not Sawman but here you go... http://stevereichert.com/srs-handgun...hoice-and-why/

[MarkCO]

Written by Steve Reichert not Sawman but here you go... http://stevereichert.com/srs-handgun...hoice-and-why/

How bout a nice "Kydex vs. Leather vs. Ballistic Nylon" article? That will surely hack some folks off.

[Chad4000]

Written by Steve Reichert not Sawman but here you go... http://stevereichert.com/srs-handgun...hoice-and-why/

great article...