ZIMMERMAN TRIAL LIVE LINK

[bellavite1]

Are you guys listening to this???
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-live-video-day-3-states-witnesses/
The prosecution witnesses are a fucking joke![facepalm]

[battle_sight_zero]

Agreed and after hearing from law enforcement for many years telling us to say something if you see something they are using this against Zimmerman. I don't see anything wrong with reporting open garages, or suspicious persons. Some people have a knack for noticing these issues while most are oblivious. Just shows these prosecutors are just plain evil people looking to satisfy the agenda.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/26/judge-in-trayvon-martin-case-weighs-police-calls/

[battle_sight_zero]

Last quote, this prosecutor appears to be asking alot of questions that seem to be attempts to lead the witness.

[BushMasterBoy]

I am firmly convinced the .gov is evil. This trial is a sham and an affront to all law abiding citizens who believe they have a right to self defense. If this was a cop having his head bashed into the concrete sidewalk, and the cop shot the punk...we would not have heard about it at all! The trial is merely a liberal agenda to erode away your constitutional rights as Americans. Yeah, I am bashing the entire system, because it is rotten to the core.

[cofi]

I am firmly convinced the .gov is evil. This trial is a sham and an affront to all law abiding citizens who believe they have a right to self defense. If this was a cop having his head bashed into the concrete sidewalk, and the cop shot the punk...we would not have heard about it at all! The trial is merely a liberal agenda to erode away your constitutional rights as Americans. Yeah, I am bashing the entire system, because it is rotten to the core.

+1


Does anyone see zimmerman walking away from this???

[battle_sight_zero]

+1


Does anyone see zimmerman walking away from this???


Sadly I dont. Personally I am a man who watches out for others as a good neighbor or community member should. However this nonsense makes me less likely to want to get involved. I am not walking the streets looking for stuff but I am aware and do alert authorities to situation s often. I am also aware that I a mostly right in my observations . Sad that knack can be used against you.

[sellersm]

They only want you to 'say something' when you see what they want you to see, or see it the way they want you to see it...

This is another form of public indoctrination: little sheeple, learn your lessons.

True justice left here a very long time ago.

[cofi]

Lol witness studying "lobotomy" on HLN

[3beansalad]

True justice left here a very long time ago.

Truth. We, Americans, seem to have lost our way.

[RblDiver]

I was surprised to learn that in Florida, since a second degree murder charge couldn't result in the death penalty, he only has a 6 person jury.

[clublights]

So he called the cops 50 times in 8 years ??

that an average of less then once every 2 months.


Uhh how is this a bad thing ?

[Irving]

If this was a cop having his head bashed into the concrete sidewalk, and the cop shot the punk...we would not have heard about it at all!

It DID go down like that, until that liberal lawyer got a whiff of the situation and ran to the social media and stirred everything up.

[ZERO THEORY]

Fun fact: some years ago, Zimmerman helped a family whose homeless relative was beaten by the police in a disgusting brutality case during litigation. Now the family is protesting against him.

[Ronin13]

+1


Does anyone see zimmerman walking away from this???
In terms of acquittal, yes... after that... doubtful. Either by the NBP or some scum who doesn't see things that way.

[Irving]

You and I have different definitions of "fun."

[palepainter]

I will not be surprised if Zimmerman gets charged. I was disappointed with all the previous phone calls being allowed as evidence, but Martin's previous Facebook account postings and emails are not admissible to show character. Do not understand that.

[Ronin13]

I will not be surprised if Zimmerman gets charged. I was disappointed with all the previous phone calls being allowed as evidence, but Martin's previous Facebook account postings and emails are not admissible to show character. Do not understand that.
Point of contention- he's already been charged, now the trial is deciding if he's found guilty or not.

But I agree- not admitting a character profile of Martin is just ludicrous.

[ZERO THEORY]

I will not be surprised if Zimmerman gets charged. I was disappointed with all the previous phone calls being allowed as evidence, but Martin's previous Facebook account postings and emails are not admissible to show character. Do not understand that.

Got a link to his postings? I'd love to take a gander at that.

[palepainter]

Got a link to his postings? I'd love to take a gander at that.
I did not book mark them when the items came up on social networks. Doubt they are still there.

[Rooskibar03]

If George is acquitted ill eat my hat.

[ZERO THEORY]

I did not book mark them when the items came up on social networks. Doubt they are still there.

Damn. Basic jist? I'm assuming he wasn't displaying his most upstanding mannerisms.

[asmo]

My prediction:

Criminal charges: Aquitted
Civil charges: Ass-raped

[ZERO THEORY]

My prediction:

Criminal charges: Aquitted
Civil charges: Ass-raped

Not to mention they'll surely blacklist him from any future carry licensing and he'll never work a legitimate career again in his life.

[tmckay2]

Sadly I dont. Personally I am a man who watches out for others as a good neighbor or community member should. However this nonsense makes me less likely to want to get involved. I am not walking the streets looking for stuff but I am aware and do alert authorities to situation s often. I am also aware that I a mostly right in my observations . Sad that knack can be used against you.

well heres the thing. none of us were there so we can't say for sure what happened, I don't doubt the kid was a punk, and I don't even doubt he probably fought with Zimmerman, but either way I don't see why he would have gotten out of his car to approach him. when you carry you should avoid conflict even more than when you don't carry. that pistol should only come out if you have absolutely no other choice because it rarely ends up good for either individual. now if the kid was beating up another person or whatever sure you need to get involved. if hes just walking and being suspicious its not worth it to confront him. call the police, keep an eye on him, that's it. I don't think Zimmerman deserves to be found guilty on the criminal charges of murder but in my opinion what he did was pretty dumb and sadly it should be a lesson to all of us, especially those of us who carry.

[sroz]

well heres the thing. none of us were there so we can't say for sure what happened, I don't doubt the kid was a punk, and I don't even doubt he probably fought with Zimmerman, but either way I don't see why he would have gotten out of his car to approach him. when you carry you should avoid conflict even more than when you don't carry. that pistol should only come out if you have absolutely no other choice because it rarely ends up good for either individual. now if the kid was beating up another person or whatever sure you need to get involved. if hes just walking and being suspicious its not worth it to confront him. call the police, keep an eye on him, that's it. I don't think Zimmerman deserves to be found guilty on the criminal charges of murder but in my opinion what he did was pretty dumb and sadly it should be a lesson to all of us, especially those of us who carry.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

[cofi]

Damn. Basic jist? I'm assuming he wasn't displaying his most upstanding mannerisms.pics of guns pics of weed plants etc

[sniper7]

well heres the thing. none of us were there so we can't say for sure what happened, I don't doubt the kid was a punk, and I don't even doubt he probably fought with Zimmerman, but either way I don't see why he would have gotten out of his car to approach him. when you carry you should avoid conflict even more than when you don't carry. that pistol should only come out if you have absolutely no other choice because it rarely ends up good for either individual. now if the kid was beating up another person or whatever sure you need to get involved. if hes just walking and being suspicious its not worth it to confront him. call the police, keep an eye on him, that's it. I don't think Zimmerman deserves to be found guilty on the criminal charges of murder but in my opinion what he did was pretty dumb and sadly it should be a lesson to all of us, especially those of us who carry.

I agree but you also are dismissing his background and his position. Him and his wife had been attacked by dogs. That was the reason they got the permits in the first place. He was the community watchdog and I believe appointed by the HOA. Several breakins in the area had occurred. He had obviously called the cops before. I would like to hear the details on those calls and if they were bogus or if arrests were made, if they were all racially driven or what.

Florida has a stand your ground law as well.

I do think the circumstances that we have heard about would not warrant getting out of the vehicle but I wasn't there.

I just watched the news highlights on the star witness who was on the phone with martin. It sure seemed to only help the defense in my opinion.

[bellavite1]

I agree but you also are dismissing his background and his position. Him and his wife had been attacked by dogs. That was the reason they got the permits in the first place. He was the community watchdog and I believe appointed by the HOA. Several breakins in the area had occurred. He had obviously called the cops before. I would like to hear the details on those calls and if they were bogus or if arrests were made, if they were all racially driven or what.

Florida has a stand your ground law as well.

I do think the circumstances that we have heard about would not warrant getting out of the vehicle but I wasn't there.

I just watched the news highlights on the star witness who was on the phone with martin. It sure seemed to only help the defense in my opinion.
When CNN calls that beast an "unsophisticated young woman" you know it's bad! [Coffee]

[cofi]

I had my tv turned up all the way and could understand like every third word that girl said

[bellavite1]

I had my tv turned up all the way and could understand like every third word that girl said

What girl?[LOL]

[Great-Kazoo]

What girl?[LOL]

the cracker ass guy following him;)

[cofi]

What girl?[LOL]

As seen in the movie precious

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/425346_10150571256481701_952610767_n.jpg

http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amnews/i/13/dc3ed74374e68af488a63dd2f963a/_h353_w628_m6_otrue_lfalse.jpg

[bellavite1]

As seen in the movie precious

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/425346_10150571256481701_952610767_n.jpg

http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amnews/i/13/dc3ed74374e68af488a63dd2f963a/_h353_w628_m6_otrue_lfalse.jpg

Yeah, Precious and Diamond (her actual nick name).
Do these people own a mirror?

[tmckay2]

im not dismissing any of that. it doesn't excuse his actions. this is the main lesson for all of us that carry need to learn. we think we are somehow justified but in most cases when you enter a situation that results in you having to pull your sidearm it generally does not end well. break ins suck. does it mean you confront a person that isn't doing anything wrong? stand your ground law works IF YOU AREN'T THE ONE ENGAGING. again, the point here is that while trayvon martin might have been a first degree punk, at the time he wasn't actively doing anything wrong and zimmerman getting out of his car was a huge mistake. even if hes a super nice guy and trayvon is a deadbeat wanna be thug, fact is he could have avoided the confrontation and he didn't. when you are the one carrying that is of utmost importance.

ive even seen a lot of people thump their chests about their "cool" carry stories where they almost pulled it out, they flashed it to somebody to scare them, and whatever else and rarely do i hear the people say they were extremely polite and very kindly tried to avoid confrontation. usually, whether they are BS stories or not, it ends up being the storyteller trying to be a bad ass and either raising the tension or at least not actively diffusing it, and then they think they are cool because they almost pulled their carry? some people apparently need to go back to training. carrying should not be taken lightly at all and short of being actively attacked of no fault of your own or another person being beaten to death, it should not even be considered to be pulled.

i realize cops can be knuckleheads and probably ignored him a lot and he was annoyed by that, but short of martin attacking someone there is nothing zimmerman should have done. a neighborhood watch is just that, a WATCH. he saw something suspicious, he reported it. if they are sending a patrol car and he wants to keep an eye on martin, fine. if not, watch him until you see him actually do something. doesn't matter if hes goading you or daring you to get out of your car or anything. you are the one carrying, you have the responsibility.

again, zimmerman seems like a fine guy and i hate to see it happen to him. trayvon seemed like a douche. i knew a guy that was super nice but got in a bar fight, it wasn't even he who started it, but one punch and the guy hit the table on the way down and died. he spent 8 years in prison. best to avoid situations in any way possible. you never know how things will go bad and you can never go back. sometimes you need to look like the wuss in order to avoid the conflict.


I agree but you also are dismissing his background and his position. Him and his wife had been attacked by dogs. That was the reason they got the permits in the first place. He was the community watchdog and I believe appointed by the HOA. Several breakins in the area had occurred. He had obviously called the cops before. I would like to hear the details on those calls and if they were bogus or if arrests were made, if they were all racially driven or what.

Florida has a stand your ground law as well.

I do think the circumstances that we have heard about would not warrant getting out of the vehicle but I wasn't there.

I just watched the news highlights on the star witness who was on the phone with martin. It sure seemed to only help the defense in my opinion.

[BigDee]

The only reason this went to trial is because the DA and chief of police knew that if they didn't charge him they would spend ungodly amounts of money fighting civil suits filed by every civil rights organization known to man for the I foreseeable future, not to mention the political ramifications to their careers.

Zimmerman is nothing more than a peace offering (some may say sacrifice) to the civil rights groups.

[RblDiver]

ive even seen a lot of people thump their chests about their "cool" carry stories where they almost pulled it out, they flashed it to somebody to scare them, and whatever else and rarely do i hear the people say they were extremely polite and very kindly tried to avoid confrontation. usually, whether they are BS stories or not, it ends up being the storyteller trying to be a bad ass and either raising the tension or at least not actively diffusing it, and then they think they are cool because they almost pulled their carry? some people apparently need to go back to training. carrying should not be taken lightly at all and short of being actively attacked of no fault of your own or another person being beaten to death, it should not even be considered to be pulled.

Part of the point of carrying is deterrence. I'm not saying people should be "flashing their piece," but if it deterred someone from engaging in stronger action then it can be a good thing. Being polite is all well and good, but remember, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

[tmckay2]

The only reason this went to trial is because the DA and chief of police knew that if they didn't charge him they would spend ungodly amounts of money fighting civil suits filed by every civil rights organization known to man for the I foreseeable future, not to mention the political ramifications to their careers.

Zimmerman is nothing more than a peace offering (some may say sacrifice) to the civil rights groups.

i wouldn't say its that simple. i am the most annoyed person on this board with "racism!" accusations, it drives me nuts, but zimmerman, by all accounts (even his own in my opinion), started the confrontation by exiting his vehicle. that certainly doesn't mean he should be found guilty of murder as i do believe his story of how things went down, but he does deserve to go to trial. with no REAL witnesses, no weapon on trayvon, and zimmerman with a pistol, you pretty much have to take that to trial. i can actually understand the black community thinking race played a part if they don't even charge him, i mean there is certainly enough evidence to at least charge him with some sort of negligence.

i don't think it was racially motivated and i don't think zimmerman is a bad guy, but i think the white/hispanic community has to try to look at this as objectively as possible if we expect the black community to look at it as objectively as possible. right now you got the black community saying hes absolutely, no doubt about it guilty of murder and the white community saying he is absolutely, no doubt about it innocent of all charges. now you can't tell me both sides aren't using race as their basis because there is very little evidence and hardly any witnesses. no one really knows anything, and trayvon is dead so we only have one guy's story. to me, i think it is fair to find him innocent of murder, i don't think he went there in any way hoping to or trying to kill trayvon. but i do think he is guilty of something, how you want to phrase it or term it is up to the lawyers, but his actions weren't necessary and should have been avoided.

we are all gun owners and all respect the right to defend oneself and we like to defend our own. but we need to be honest and realistic when one of our own does something wrong, and in this case i think it is pretty obvious zimmerman made some mistakes. we shouldn't burn him at the stake but these mistakes warrant some form of punishment. trayvon took part in this too, but right or wrong he already received his punishment and it was pretty severe.

[Ronin13]

According to records, documents, and Zimmerman's testimony- a lot of you are getting the narrative wrong. Sniper7 is not entirely accurate as to why they got permits- Zimmerman's own words were to the effect of a recent home invasion in their neighborhood led them to get their permits so they could protect themselves. tmckay2- you also make a very big assumption in saying Martin probably didn't even fight with Zimmerman. I invite you to watch the Hannity interview with Zimmerman (it's on YouTube), do you really think if the story he tells to Sean suddenly becomes different from his testimony to the detectives investigating that they would discredit him and more easily find him guilty? They'd uncover that in court and he's screwed. So either he tells the truth or tells the exact same narrative to Hannity, the detectives, AND in court. I have no reason to not believe GZ, I can give him the benefit of the doubt since the local CLEO deemed him okay to give a concealed carry permit. Go look at the narrative described to police- here's what he says happened (and again, he said this on camera with his attorney present so it could very well be the truth):
He spotted TM walking in the rain, casually. Something didn't sit right with him, so he called the PD non-emergency line. He continued to keep visual contact with TM as he spoke to the dispatcher. He parked, got out, walked in the same direction as TM until he reached his street, where he stopped following TM and went to give the dispatcher an exact location for a police unit to meet him. He hung up. Looked up and was face to face with TM. TM asked (approx.): "What's your f***ing problem?" GZ responded: "I don't have a problem," while trying to reach for his phone. He looks up again and is struck in the face by TM. Somehow GZ is forced to the ground with TM on top of him striking him in the face and slamming his head into the concrete. GZ attempts to get onto the grass nearby so his head isn't further injured. All the while TM is cursing and threatening GZ. TM attempts to strangle and silence GZ as GZ calls for help. During the struggle GZ's shirt comes up revealing his gun. TM says "You're going to die tonight." At this point GZ is in fear for his life and struggles to get the gun. He fires. TM says "You got me." GZ is approached by a neighbor. Police arrive. TM dies.
That's the narrative GZ told... Take it however you want, but I'm somewhat inclined to believe him, as I have no reason not to. And there is no other witness testimony.

Needless to say- Martin would be alive today had he not hit Zimmerman. Plain and simple. If you doubt Zimmerman was in a physical altercation you obviously missed the aftermath pictures showing bruising and lacerations to his face and head.

[tmckay2]

Part of the point of carrying is deterrence. I'm not saying people should be "flashing their piece," but if it deterred someone from engaging in stronger action then it can be a good thing. Being polite is all well and good, but remember, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

while that is true, 99% of the time you can diffuse small time punks talking trash by simply walking away or playing the wuss. you don't need to stick out your chest because you are carrying and assume he isn't. i would never show someone my pistol just to show them and hope it scares them. if i am showing it it is because my life is in danger and i am pulling it. carrying shouldn't be for small time fights and verbal abuse situations, it should be for life threatening situations only. most of the stories people tell on here in some idiot just talking and maybe at times approaching them. most of the time if you simply apologize for whatever happened and tell them you meant no disrespect or offense, that would end it. most of the stories involve people acting like a bad ass and not backing down, and why? because they have a gun and think they are a tough guy? diffuse the situation at all times, if the guy pulls out a weapon and approaches then fine. if not, keep it hidden.

[tmckay2]

i said he DID fight with zimmerman, thats why he deserves equal share of the blame.


According to records, documents, and Zimmerman's testimony- a lot of you are getting the narrative wrong. Sniper7 is not entirely accurate as to why they got permits- Zimmerman's own words were to the effect of a recent home invasion in their neighborhood led them to get their permits so they could protect themselves. tmckay2- you also make a very big assumption in saying Martin probably didn't even fight with Zimmerman. I invite you to watch the Hannity interview with Zimmerman (it's on YouTube), do you really think if the story he tells to Sean suddenly becomes different from his testimony to the detectives investigating that they would discredit him and more easily find him guilty? They'd uncover that in court and he's screwed. So either he tells the truth or tells the exact same narrative to Hannity, the detectives, AND in court. I have no reason to not believe GZ, I can give him the benefit of the doubt since the local CLEO deemed him okay to give a concealed carry permit. Go look at the narrative described to police- here's what he says happened (and again, he said this on camera with his attorney present so it could very well be the truth):
He spotted TM walking in the rain, casually. Something didn't sit right with him, so he called the PD non-emergency line. He continued to keep visual contact with TM as he spoke to the dispatcher. He parked, got out, walked in the same direction as TM until he reached his street, where he stopped following TM and went to give the dispatcher an exact location for a police unit to meet him. He hung up. Looked up and was face to face with TM. TM asked (approx.): "What's your f***ing problem?" GZ responded: "I don't have a problem," while trying to reach for his phone. He looks up again and is struck in the face by TM. Somehow GZ is forced to the ground with TM on top of him striking him in the face and slamming his head into the concrete. GZ attempts to get onto the grass nearby so his head isn't further injured. All the while TM is cursing and threatening GZ. TM attempts to strangle and silence GZ as GZ calls for help. During the struggle GZ's shirt comes up revealing his gun. TM says "You're going to die tonight." At this point GZ is in fear for his life and struggles to get the gun. He fires. TM says "You got me." GZ is approached by a neighbor. Police arrive. TM dies.
That's the narrative GZ told... Take it however you want, but I'm somewhat inclined to believe him, as I have no reason not to. And there is no other witness testimony.

[tmckay2]

i believe him as well, which is exactly what i said. doesn't matter though, he should have known exiting the vehicle and following him escalates the situation. if he was truly a criminal looking for trouble, its the worst thing you can do. as i said, should he be found guilty of murder? no. i think he did try to protect himself when things got ugly. but things should have never reached that point. he, though unintentionally, escalated a situation that didn't need to be. he should take part of the blame in that. i don't think he should get 10 years in a pound me in the ass prison, but i think he does deserve some time. he played a part in that situation that resulted in the death of a person. he wasn't 100% innocent even if his motives were not bad. thats what i have been saying the whole time.


According to records, documents, and Zimmerman's testimony- a lot of you are getting the narrative wrong. Sniper7 is not entirely accurate as to why they got permits- Zimmerman's own words were to the effect of a recent home invasion in their neighborhood led them to get their permits so they could protect themselves. tmckay2- you also make a very big assumption in saying Martin probably didn't even fight with Zimmerman. I invite you to watch the Hannity interview with Zimmerman (it's on YouTube), do you really think if the story he tells to Sean suddenly becomes different from his testimony to the detectives investigating that they would discredit him and more easily find him guilty? They'd uncover that in court and he's screwed. So either he tells the truth or tells the exact same narrative to Hannity, the detectives, AND in court. I have no reason to not believe GZ, I can give him the benefit of the doubt since the local CLEO deemed him okay to give a concealed carry permit. Go look at the narrative described to police- here's what he says happened (and again, he said this on camera with his attorney present so it could very well be the truth):
He spotted TM walking in the rain, casually. Something didn't sit right with him, so he called the PD non-emergency line. He continued to keep visual contact with TM as he spoke to the dispatcher. He parked, got out, walked in the same direction as TM until he reached his street, where he stopped following TM and went to give the dispatcher an exact location for a police unit to meet him. He hung up. Looked up and was face to face with TM. TM asked (approx.): "What's your f***ing problem?" GZ responded: "I don't have a problem," while trying to reach for his phone. He looks up again and is struck in the face by TM. Somehow GZ is forced to the ground with TM on top of him striking him in the face and slamming his head into the concrete. GZ attempts to get onto the grass nearby so his head isn't further injured. All the while TM is cursing and threatening GZ. TM attempts to strangle and silence GZ as GZ calls for help. During the struggle GZ's shirt comes up revealing his gun. TM says "You're going to die tonight." At this point GZ is in fear for his life and struggles to get the gun. He fires. TM says "You got me." GZ is approached by a neighbor. Police arrive. TM dies.
That's the narrative GZ told... Take it however you want, but I'm somewhat inclined to believe him, as I have no reason not to. And there is no other witness testimony.

Needless to say- Martin would be alive today had he not hit Zimmerman. Plain and simple. If you doubt Zimmerman was in a physical altercation you obviously missed the aftermath pictures showing bruising and lacerations to his face and head.

[Ronin13]

while that is true, 99% of the time you can diffuse small time punks talking trash by simply walking away or playing the wuss. you don't need to stick out your chest because you are carrying and assume he isn't. i would never show someone my pistol just to show them and hope it scares them. if i am showing it it is because my life is in danger and i am pulling it. carrying shouldn't be for small time fights and verbal abuse situations, it should be for life threatening situations only. most of the stories people tell on here in some idiot just talking and maybe at times approaching them. most of the time if you simply apologize for whatever happened and tell them you meant no disrespect or offense, that would end it. most of the stories involve people acting like a bad ass and not backing down, and why? because they have a gun and think they are a tough guy? diffuse the situation at all times, if the guy pulls out a weapon and approaches then fine. if not, keep it hidden.
THIS! Treat it like the Samurai treated their swords- Never draw unless you intend to use it.

i said he DID fight with zimmerman, thats why he deserves equal share of the blame.
Had to go back and re-read, my mistake, you just used that non-contradictory double negative that confused me. [Beer]

i believe him as well, which is exactly what i said. doesn't matter though, he should have known exiting the vehicle and following him escalates the situation. if he was truly a criminal looking for trouble, its the worst thing you can do. as i said, should he be found guilty of murder? no. i think he did try to protect himself when things got ugly. but things should have never reached that point. he, though unintentionally, escalated a situation that didn't need to be. he should take part of the blame in that. i don't think he should get 10 years in a pound me in the ass prison, but i think he does deserve some time. he played a part in that situation that resulted in the death of a person. he wasn't 100% innocent even if his motives were not bad. thats what i have been saying the whole time.
Again, I state- had Martin not got violent he wouldn't have been shot. Being followed does not warrant physical violence.

[palepainter]

You know, I watched a bit of this during lunch. Let me summarize what I have heard. " Cracker... cracker.....cracker.... N-word." I mean come on, what is the goddamned deal. What I should have heard was... " C- Word...... C-word....C-word.... N-word." What the hell is up with that? Personally, I have been around enough black folks to know that when they say cracker, it isn't meant to be a polite use of the word. I am so fucking sick of all the intolerance and PC bullshit. This trial is bringing out the worst in our system and people... Both C-words and N-words........... Double standard bullshit...

[Whistler]

Let me get this straight - just because you happen to carry you should keep your head down, eyes averted, eat shit and let anyone do anything that doesn't directly place you in a position of imminent loss of life just because they might break stupid? The guy was Neighborhood Watch who's charge was to look for suspicious activity, I won't consider profiling because it's my opinion if you want to look/act like a "gangsta" don't be shocked when people think you are a "gangsta". As a member of my community/neighborhood I have every right to want to know what someone is up to when they appear to be suspicious, are acting or dressed in a manner that makes me think they are up to no good. I choose not to wait until I've been shot, attacked, burglarized, etc. before I watch them and/or politely ask exactly why they are there and what they are up to. I've been asked and it doesn't bother me a bit to explain why I'm wandering around in a place or at a time that would make someone suspicious of my intent. Never once did it occur to me to attack that person and punch them in the face for trying to make the place they live safer, in fact I thanked them for their involvement. It shouldn't bother or offend any rational person though I wouldn't push it beyond a polite inquiry and notify the proper authorities if they take exception as I would consider that confirmation of my suspicion. While I believe carrying to be a grave responsibility and a last resort in extreme circumstance, the fact that I carry (or not) does not dissuade me from what I consider reasonable inquiry to ensure the safety of myself, my neighbors and my community. No I'm not LEO and I don't have a "hero complex", I'm a responsible member of my community under no delusion that the world isn't filled with scumbags and ne'er-do-wells. I further don't call that being a "badass" or thumping my chest, I don't want to fight and damn sure don't want to shoot anyone but I certainly don't want to live in a place where no one wants to "get involved" to keep it from becoming a shithole. Isn't that the point of Neighborhood Watch to begin with? Let me propose a different scenario; "Hi I'm George with the Neighborhood Watch, how are you this evening?" "Oh hi George I'm Trayvon. I'm staying with my Dad's girlfriend for a few days and had a craving for some Skittles, headed back to the house." "Nice to meet you Trayvon, I like Skittles too, maybe I'll go get some. Have a nice evening." "You too George and thanks for keeping an eye on the neighborhood."

[Singlestack]

You know, I watched a bit of this during lunch. Let me summarize what I have heard. " Cracker... cracker.....cracker.... N-word." I mean come on, what is the goddamned deal. What I should have heard was... " C- Word...... C-word....C-word.... N-word." What the hell is up with that? Personally, I have been around enough black folks to know that when they say cracker, it isn't meant to be a polite use of the word. I am so fucking sick of all the intolerance and PC bullshit. This trial is bringing out the worst in our system and people... Both C-words and N-words........... Double standard bullshit...

Sadly, I think many, many people believe the N-word is racist but "cracker" is not. This somewhat goes to the voting intimidation incident in Philadelphia a few years ago by the Black Panthers. Eric Holder "determined" that blacks could not be guilty of racism, and therefore would not prosecute it. I don't believe the liberal media will cast serious aspersions on Trayvon for saying that, since "it isn't racism". Reasonable people, in my opinion, would conclude "cracker" is a racist epithet directed at whites. FWIW, the "friend" of Trayvon also said Trayvon called Zimmerman the N-word. Can't figure that out...

[davsel]

I prefer Redneck if you don't mind.

[sniper7]

I Dont mind cracker at all. Call me a cracker that means I crack the whip and shit gets done. You are calling me master and acknowledge that I run the show.

The N word gets tossed around lightly in songs and movies. You Dont hear cracker in country songs. Some people have just moved on. Others want to play the sympathy card and get more for nothing.

[palepainter]

I am not really offended by the name either. I have heard it in use, much like the other word. Both racially charged. I just find it some what rediculous the way it is being thrown around by the court.

[hurley842002]

There are not too many words that offend me, what offends me is the double standard to which words are acceptable. Case in point, the N word is censored on all local radio stations (that I'm aware of), however KS107.5 finds it perfectly acceptable to play a song with a verse stating "that's a cold a$$ H@#$%& ". Now I'm not going to say either word "out loud" because then I'd be contradicting myself, but I think most of you know what the white racial "H" word is. Once again, neither word offends me, as they are just words in my opinion. But why am I the worst form of human being if I happen to call someone a N, but it's perfectly fine for a hip hop artists to sling the H word around?

ETA: my apologies for getting off track, just got up on a soap box.

[TFOGGER]

Words only have the power that you give them over you...

[KS63]

Anyone think that there will be a Sourh Park episode of this trial? Ms. Star Witness is doing a great job.

[Ronin13]

There are not too many words that offend me, what offends me is the double standard to which words are acceptable. Case in point, the N word is censored on all local radio stations (that I'm aware of), however KS107.5 finds it perfectly acceptable to play a song with a verse stating "that's a cold a$$ H@#$%& ". Now I'm not going to say either word "out loud" because then I'd be contradicting myself, but I think most of you know what the white racial "H" word is. Once again, neither word offends me, as they are just words in my opinion. But why am I the worst form of human being if I happen to call someone a N, but it's perfectly fine for a hip hop artists to sling the H word around?

ETA: my apologies for getting off track, just got up on a soap box.
Just FYI- and I agree- but the guy who made the song with that Honkey quote- he's white... so it's no different than two black rappers calling each other that N-word.
But on the subject of cracker: (NSFW)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0
To quote from this video (go to 2:08) "'Hey Cracker', ooh, ruined my day... bringing me back to owning land and people." [LOL]

Anyone think that there will be a Sourh Park episode of this trial? Ms. Star Witness is doing a great job.
Definitely! I wouldn't be surprised.

[hurley842002]

Just FYI- and I agree- but the guy who made the song with that Honkey quote- he's white... so it's no different than two black rappers calling each other that N-word.

I didn't know the artist was white, but that's still not my point. My point is regardless of the race of the artist, it's okay to use a white racial slur on the radio, but it's not okay to use a black racial slur, double standard.

[RblDiver]

Agreed, the double standard is ridiculous.

Do I think all black people are, to be PC, "N-words?" Hell no. Heck, one of my family's oldest friends is staying with me right now, and he's black and probably the nicest guy in the US. The ones I would think as deserving of that title would be essentially the black version of white trash; drug addicts, violent criminal offenders, people who leech off society while blaming "whitey" for all their problems, etc.

Would I get all riled up if they came up and called me cracka? No, I'd know that the person saying it was an idiot and move on with my life. Trouble is that today we have such a thin skin that everyone is "offended" by something. You shouldn't try to be offensive, and likewise neither try to be offended.

[mtnhack]

We joke all the time at work calling each other "crackers" for some shit or another. Being from OK- cracker. you like to go Noodling- cracker. Drinking cheap, shitty beer- cracker. You ate squirrel when you were a kid- cracker. etc


Cracker is not very derogatory in my mind. I guess if it were said to me in hate and not jest, that might anger me, but not because of the word, because of the tone. I can't even think of a truly offensive derogatory word for a white person.

[Ronin13]

I didn't know the artist was white, but that's still not my point. My point is regardless of the race of the artist, it's okay to use a white racial slur on the radio, but it's not okay to use a black racial slur, double standard.
Oh I agree. If you're gonna bleep out N-word, you need to not discriminate and bleep out "Cracker", "honkey", "whitey", and "peckerwood."

[sniper7]

Anyways, any news today on the trial? I'm working.

[palepainter]

They came to the conclusion that the key witness can not read or write, but knows 3 languages.

[clublights]

You wanna see how fast black folk will go race card on ya.. try working security at a night club.......

kick em out for fighting, being to drunk, anything you would kick anyone out for .. or not let them in cuz they don;t have ID.....
I've been called cracker, whitey, White devil, peckerwood, Bubba, redneck, white trash, trailer trash, heck you think of it . I've been called it.

I responded by laughing most the time.. or just shake my head.

[cofi]

That Colombian witness stated zimmerman was on top of martin when she came outside(right after she heard gunshots)

[sniper7]

Is there other eyewitness accounts telling the opposite of that? That Zimmerman was attacked?

[RblDiver]

Is there other eyewitness accounts telling the opposite of that? That Zimmerman was attacked?

From my understanding, there aren't really any definitive eyewitnesses there. One person, iirc, said she saw someone get up after the gunshot, but couldn't tell who it was. I think she said she thought it was Zimmerman getting off Martin, but said she'd based that on older pics of Martin as a smaller guy (and thus thinking the one getting off was bigger, or something).

The thing with the "star" witness that dropped today was when she was asked to read a letter she supposedly wrote to Martin's mom, but said that she can't read cursive (showing she couldn't have written it). She also called the defense "retarded," and shows a lot of attitude. So, if she's the best they have, that's a good sign for Zimmerman.

[tmckay2]

Is there other eyewitness accounts telling the opposite of that? That Zimmerman was attacked?

there are no real witnesses, which is the main problem.

[cofi]

So far not looking good for zimmerman imo cries for help stop immediately after gunshots that voice is not heard again zimmerman is seen on top of Martin body immediately after shooting

[tmckay2]

Let me get this straight - just because you happen to carry you should keep your head down, eyes averted, eat shit and let anyone do anything that doesn't directly place you in a position of imminent loss of life just because they might break stupid? The guy was Neighborhood Watch who's charge was to look for suspicious activity, I won't consider profiling because it's my opinion if you want to look/act like a "gangsta" don't be shocked when people think you are a "gangsta". As a member of my community/neighborhood I have every right to want to know what someone is up to when they appear to be suspicious, are acting or dressed in a manner that makes me think they are up to no good. I choose not to wait until I've been shot, attacked, burglarized, etc. before I watch them and/or politely ask exactly why they are there and what they are up to. I've been asked and it doesn't bother me a bit to explain why I'm wandering around in a place or at a time that would make someone suspicious of my intent. Never once did it occur to me to attack that person and punch them in the face for trying to make the place they live safer, in fact I thanked them for their involvement. It shouldn't bother or offend any rational person though I wouldn't push it beyond a polite inquiry and notify the proper authorities if they take exception as I would consider that confirmation of my suspicion. While I believe carrying to be a grave responsibility and a last resort in extreme circumstance, the fact that I carry (or not) does not dissuade me from what I consider reasonable inquiry to ensure the safety of myself, my neighbors and my community. No I'm not LEO and I don't have a "hero complex", I'm a responsible member of my community under no delusion that the world isn't filled with scumbags and ne'er-do-wells. I further don't call that being a "badass" or thumping my chest, I don't want to fight and damn sure don't want to shoot anyone but I certainly don't want to live in a place where no one wants to "get involved" to keep it from becoming a shithole. Isn't that the point of Neighborhood Watch to begin with? Let me propose a different scenario; "Hi I'm George with the Neighborhood Watch, how are you this evening?" "Oh hi George I'm Trayvon. I'm staying with my Dad's girlfriend for a few days and had a craving for some Skittles, headed back to the house." "Nice to meet you Trayvon, I like Skittles too, maybe I'll go get some. Have a nice evening." "You too George and thanks for keeping an eye on the neighborhood."

bold statement - correct. otherwise you roll the dice. if youd like to that its a free country, just don't be surprised when you end up like zimmerman, or like my buddy who did time for his bar fight incident.

the point of the neighborhood watch is to alert police to suspicious activity, not engage a suspicious person. if you actively see someone break into a house or assault someone its a bit different. no point in approaching someone walking down the street. what do you expect to gain from that? you think they are going to say, "well yes sir, i was about to rob a place, thanks for stopping me?" either the person is up to no good and therefore is going to cause you some trouble you don't want, or they are simply walking down the street. either way, approaching them and talking to them won't necessarily tell you anything, but it may get you in trouble. watch from a very safe distance until the police arrive.

[KS63]

So far not looking good for zimmerman imo cries for help stop immediately after gunshots that voice is not heard again zimmerman is seen on top of Martin body immediately after shooting
Possibly after shots were fired, Z. pushed Martin off him and in turn ended up on top of Martin? The kid was supposedly 6' tall. That's my guess anyway.

[clublights]

So far not looking good for zimmerman imo cries for help stop immediately after gunshots that voice is not heard again zimmerman is seen on top of Martin body immediately after shooting


If your crying for help because your head is being bashed into the sidewalk .. you shoot the guy and he stops bashing your head.. would you continue crying for help ???

maybe.. maybe not.....

[sniper7]

Still lots left to go. Analyze each second of the encounter, each call, every cut and scrape, the pictures of Zimmerman's head and nose etc.

I wonder if the examiner checked Martin's hands for bruises or cuts or blood or anything. That is pure evidence right there.

[cofi]

I wonder if the examiner checked Martin's hands for bruises or cuts or blood or anything. That is pure evidence right there.

Interesting question that's for sure

[Squeeze]

Love the "monday morning quarterbacking". [Pop] Pretty sure Kelly with TTE summed it up quite well:

"Here's the short version of the Martin/Zimmerman issue.

Idiot in hoodie (Martin) meets idiot with gun (Zimmerman).

Outcome for both sides: Don't start shit and their won't be shit.

This is not "historical" in any way, shape, form or fashion"

[cofi]

Pretty much sums it up.....defently not historical I just find it interesting since I daily carry to see the shitstorm that happens once that trigger gets pulled

[Whistler]

bold statement - correct. otherwise you roll the dice. if youd like to that its a free country, just don't be surprised when you end up like zimmerman, or like my buddy who did time for his bar fight incident.

the point of the neighborhood watch is to alert police to suspicious activity, not engage a suspicious person. if you actively see someone break into a house or assault someone its a bit different. no point in approaching someone walking down the street. what do you expect to gain from that? you think they are going to say, "well yes sir, i was about to rob a place, thanks for stopping me?" either the person is up to no good and therefore is going to cause you some trouble you don't want, or they are simply walking down the street. either way, approaching them and talking to them won't necessarily tell you anything, but it may get you in trouble. watch from a very safe distance until the police arrive.

I suppose we have different views of the world, wrote a more detailed reply but deleted it in favor of simply disagreeing with your view, perhaps I'm an anachronism. Things happen and I'm not wired to walk through life worried some random idiot is going to be the end, you can go at any time for any reason or none at all. I am however wired to believe that trying to improve my lot along with that of my neighbors is about the best you can hope to do while you still breath.

How is that relevant? Maybe George was raised that way as well, it's a view I hadn't seen represented in this discussion.

[hatidua]

If George is acquitted ill eat my hat.

If George is acquitted, I suspect some will use it as an excuse to trash some store fronts and do a bit of rioting.

[tmckay2]

bettering the world doesn't have to involve confrontations while carrying a gun. in fact, bettering the world just might have to do with avoiding some situations, particularly when carrying. thats the only point i am trying to make. like i said, trayvon sounds very much like a grade a punk but it really isn't disputed that at the time he wasn't doing anything wrong, other than looking "suspicious" whatever that means. report it, let the authorities handle it, don't get out and risk confrontation. just not smart in my opinion. and in this case i think that is exactly what happened, and unfortunately trayvon (even the punk that we was) paid the ultimate price and a good man like zimmerman will also pay a hefty price. and why? for what reason? this all could have easily been avoided and i think it should serve as a lesson to those of us who do carry.


I suppose we have different views of the world, wrote a more detailed reply but deleted it in favor of simply disagreeing with your view, perhaps I'm an anachronism. Things happen and I'm not wired to walk through life worried some random idiot is going to be the end, you can go at any time for any reason or none at all. I am however wired to believe that trying to improve my lot along with that of my neighbors is about the best you can hope to do while you still breath.

How is that relevant? Maybe George was raised that way as well, it's a view I hadn't seen represented in this discussion.

[jerrymrc]

If George is acquitted, I suspect some will use it as an excuse to trash some store fronts and do a bit of rioting.

This is the new Amerika. [Flower]

[<MADDOG>]

If George is acquitted, I suspect some will use it as an excuse to trash some store fronts and do a bit of rioting.

Call it for what it is; screw the PC - hoodrats.

Luckily, the place of occurrence isn't LA, Detroit, etc.

[sniper7]

Love the "monday morning quarterbacking". [Pop] Pretty sure Kelly with TTE summed it up quite well:

"Here's the short version of the Martin/Zimmerman issue.

Idiot in hoodie (Martin) meets idiot with gun (Zimmerman).

Outcome for both sides: Don't start shit and their won't be shit.

This is not "historical" in any way, shape, form or fashion"


What IS historical is how many threads on this very gun board there have been about the use of their/there/they're.

[Squeeze]

Hey, it wasn't my quote. I just copied & pasted.

[Whistler]

bettering the world doesn't have to involve confrontations while carrying a gun. in fact, bettering the world just might have to do with avoiding some situations, particularly when carrying. thats the only point i am trying to make. like i said, trayvon sounds very much like a grade a punk but it really isn't disputed that at the time he wasn't doing anything wrong, other than looking "suspicious" whatever that means. report it, let the authorities handle it, don't get out and risk confrontation. just not smart in my opinion. and in this case i think that is exactly what happened, and unfortunately trayvon (even the punk that we was) paid the ultimate price and a good man like zimmerman will also pay a hefty price. and why? for what reason? this all could have easily been avoided and i think it should serve as a lesson to those of us who do carry.

Don't believe I said anything like confrontation but my point is/was carrying (or not) doesn't change my behavior or what I perceive as right. That was originally addressed at the quote below which I took to be your take on the interaction. I presented a different perspective in which both parties were reasonable and rational while conceding it doesn't always go that way but disagree with you that the interaction should have been avoided at all simply because he happened to be carrying. In this case it went south because as you say Trayvon was a punk but I still don't agree you should avoid the interaction (it's not described as a confrontation and believe it was escalated into one by Trayvon) simply because you happen to be carrying (or not) if you feel it's the "right" thing to do. I took the quote below to mean you believe he only initiated that interaction because he was carrying - "chest thumping" or trying to be a bad ass. You also expressed the opinion he should be punished for what I perceive as being a good neighbor by trying to determine what a person he considered suspicious was actually up to. It ended poorly, sometimes it does but I don't think that was ever his intention and hindsight is 20/20. I don't agree it should serve as a lesson to change your behavior and walk on eggshells if you happen to be carrying the same as I don't think you should change your behavior and walk around with a chip on your shoulder starting crap with everyone you meet because you happen to be carrying. My decision to strike up a conversation or watch someone I deem suspicious has nothing to do with whether or not I am carrying, I just feel it's something I should do to help look out for my neighbors. You obviously feel differently and that is the point of discussion. It's my opinion he likely would have done the same things had he not been carrying and perhaps it would have ended differently but we can agree that we ultimately must take responsibility for our personal choices. I hope that my choices never result in my having to take a life, I hope that your choices never result in another losing theirs.

To your point about him not doing anything wrong, "suspicious" doesn't mean they have to be doing anything wrong but out of place for the circumstance. He was suspicious because the neighborhood had been recently burglarized by young black men. Trayvon was a young black man, unknown to George (who as Neighborhood Watch captain should be mostly familiar with the residents) and concealing his face with a hoodie. Had it been a child as Trayvon was portrayed or a middle-aged fat white guy I don't think he'd have given it a second thought but that is just my opinion. I don't think Zimmerman did anything I'd consider aggressive or confrontational but was tragically forced to take the life of young man who chose to escalate the situation to violence with an armed man. Could he have walked away? Certainly. Should he? We disagree. We'll never know what really happened but then that's not what this trial is about.


ive even seen a lot of people thump their chests about their "cool" carry stories where they almost pulled it out, they flashed it to somebody to scare them, and whatever else and rarely do i hear the people say they were extremely polite and very kindly tried to avoid confrontation. usually, whether they are BS stories or not, it ends up being the storyteller trying to be a bad ass and either raising the tension or at least not actively diffusing it, and then they think they are cool because they almost pulled their carry? some people apparently need to go back to training. carrying should not be taken lightly at all and short of being actively attacked of no fault of your own or another person being beaten to death, it should not even be considered to be pulled.

[Bailey Guns]

Just get it over with already so we can move on to the next politically motivated, racially-charged incident...whether or not it really is racially-charged.

[sniper7]

Hey, it wasn't my quote. I just copied & pasted.

Its just sarcasm! I'm not above it myself especially posting from a phone or ipad

[mtnhack]

...

... I don't think Zimmerman did anything I'd consider aggressive or confrontational but was tragically forced to take the life of young man who chose to escalate the situation to violence with an armed man. Could he have walked away? Certainly. Should he? We disagree. We'll never know what really happened but then that's not what this trial is about.We don't know what really happened- either way.

Maybe G.Z. jumped on him thinking, "I'm gonna fuck this n-bomb up! I know he's a fuckin punk gonna break into our houses and steal our shit."

Or Maybe Martin said to his girlfriend (on the phone at the time), " Hang on baby, I gotta fuck up this little old fucker who's been following me, teach this little bitch a lesson!"

My guess it is somewhere closer to the latter. TM starts to run, Zimmerman follows and Martin turns on him and the fight. However, if he would have listened to the dispatch, he wouldn't be in this shit, period. This was not imminent danger that needed his immediate intervention. Let the police do what they are paid for.

[battle_sight_zero]

Some apparent damming testimony that does not benefit the prosecution http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/28/zimmerman-defense-grills-witness-for-second-day

This witness is alot more credible than that Ving Rhames in drag looking girl yesterday.

[cofi]

Yup current witness says zimmerman on the bottom screaming for help

[Whistler]

http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Whistler http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=1203121#post1203121)...


... I don't think Zimmerman did anything I'd consider aggressive or confrontational but was tragically forced to take the life of young man who chose to escalate the situation to violence with an armed man. Could he have walked away? Certainly. Should he? We disagree. We'll never know what really happened but then that's not what this trial is about.



We don't know what really happened- either way.

Maybe G.Z. jumped on him thinking, "I'm gonna fuck this n-bomb up! I know he's a fuckin punk gonna break into our houses and steal our shit."

Or Maybe Martin said to his girlfriend (on the phone at the time), " Hang on baby, I gotta fuck up this little old fucker who's been following me, teach this little bitch a lesson!"

My guess it is somewhere closer to the latter. TM starts to run, Zimmerman follows and Martin turns on him and the fight. However, if he would have listened to the dispatch, he wouldn't be in this shit, period. This was not imminent danger that needed his immediate intervention. Let the police do what they are paid for.

Yup we'll never know and you're right, had he just gone home he "wouldn't be in this shit". We can disagree on the rest. [beatdeadhorse]

[battle_sight_zero]

My guess it is somewhere closer to the latter. TM starts to run, Zimmerman follows and Martin turns on him and the fight. However, if he would have listened to the dispatch, he wouldn't be in this shit, period. This was not imminent danger that needed his immediate intervention. Let the police do what they are paid for.[/QUOTE]

Mr. ZIMMERMAN has stated he was walking back to his car when he was attacked. As I said in an earlier post Zimmerman in my thoughts was being vigilant. Many of us are vigilant, sure we are not involved in defensive situations. Heck when I was in the service I was attacked and stabbed by three middle eastern men for no reason other than being American right out of the blue. My point you never know when aggressive behavior will arise, and that is why I CC. Not going to judge Zimmerman for caring for his neighborhood.

[tmckay2]

i don't think george got out with any bad intent, and don't think he chest thumping, i said thats what people here do a lot in their bad ass stories of how they almost messed a guy up. but when you carry, you have to remember you are carrying and be extra careful of the situations you put yourself in, even if they are with good intentions. carrying is a big responsibility, for one it means small time confrontations can quickly be turned into serious ones. i don't think george did anything criminal, but i think he acted stupidly and didn't think things through, and is now paying the price, fair or not.


Don't believe I said anything like confrontation but my point is/was carrying (or not) doesn't change my behavior or what I perceive as right. That was originally addressed at the quote below which I took to be your take on the interaction. I presented a different perspective in which both parties were reasonable and rational while conceding it doesn't always go that way but disagree with you that the interaction should have been avoided at all simply because he happened to be carrying. In this case it went south because as you say Trayvon was a punk but I still don't agree you should avoid the interaction (it's not described as a confrontation and believe it was escalated into one by Trayvon) simply because you happen to be carrying (or not) if you feel it's the "right" thing to do. I took the quote below to mean you believe he only initiated that interaction because he was carrying - "chest thumping" or trying to be a bad ass. You also expressed the opinion he should be punished for what I perceive as being a good neighbor by trying to determine what a person he considered suspicious was actually up to. It ended poorly, sometimes it does but I don't think that was ever his intention and hindsight is 20/20. I don't agree it should serve as a lesson to change your behavior and walk on eggshells if you happen to be carrying the same as I don't think you should change your behavior and walk around with a chip on your shoulder starting crap with everyone you meet because you happen to be carrying. My decision to strike up a conversation or watch someone I deem suspicious has nothing to do with whether or not I am carrying, I just feel it's something I should do to help look out for my neighbors. You obviously feel differently and that is the point of discussion. It's my opinion he likely would have done the same things had he not been carrying and perhaps it would have ended differently but we can agree that we ultimately must take responsibility for our personal choices. I hope that my choices never result in my having to take a life, I hope that your choices never result in another losing theirs.

To your point about him not doing anything wrong, "suspicious" doesn't mean they have to be doing anything wrong but out of place for the circumstance. He was suspicious because the neighborhood had been recently burglarized by young black men. Trayvon was a young black man, unknown to George (who as Neighborhood Watch captain should be mostly familiar with the residents) and concealing his face with a hoodie. Had it been a child as Trayvon was portrayed or a middle-aged fat white guy I don't think he'd have given it a second thought but that is just my opinion. I don't think Zimmerman did anything I'd consider aggressive or confrontational but was tragically forced to take the life of young man who chose to escalate the situation to violence with an armed man. Could he have walked away? Certainly. Should he? We disagree. We'll never know what really happened but then that's not what this trial is about.

[mtnhack]

Mr. ZIMMERMAN has stated he was walking back to his car when he was attacked. As I said in an earlier post Zimmerman in my thoughts was being vigilant. Many of us are vigilant, sure we are not involved in defensive situations. Heck when I was in the service I was attacked and stabbed by three middle eastern men for no reason other than being American right out of the blue. My point you never know when aggressive behavior will arise, and that is why I CC. Not going to judge Zimmerman for caring for his neighborhood.The only reason I would question that statement from Zimmerman would be because the timeline I saw had Martin on the phone during the same minute that a witness called 911 about a fight.

[battle_sight_zero]

The only reason I would question that statement from Zimmerman would be because the timeline I saw had Martin on the phone during the same minute that a witness called 911 about a fight.

As I posted that 911 caller/ witness on the stand this morning was the one I just posted. The Ving Rhames looking girl who was on the witness stand blew her credibility on what was really being said or taking place while she was talking to Treyvon. Regardless of what she says one cant believe her because she is not credible. Perhaps I am being a Cracker or something and being judgemental but this case should not have gone to trial.


Yes CC is a huge responsibility, but if I feel I am fear of immediate death or serious bodily harm from someone then I will use my pistol as my.last resort. However if you are pummeled and beaten in surprise you dont have time to avoid trouble. If I am walking down the street and see two guys possibly casing my neighborhood I will retreat to someplace that I feel is relatively safe that I can observe and keep the police updated on information. Done it many times and I have never got into trouble. I am certainly not going to retreat and not do anything. If a bad guy attacks me on my retreat and I feel the CC is the only option then so be it. Based on what have heard George was in retreat when he was attacked. I don't believe he was looking to shoot anyone. He was getting is ass kicked and he shot Trayvon in self defense. Bring vigilant does not make you a cop wanna be as he is being protrayed. Most of the guys on this forum are of the vigilant nature,(at least I persume that) and are not looking for trouble, but if they see it happening I am sure they would report it as Zimmerman felt he should do.

[Ronin13]

bold statement - correct. otherwise you roll the dice. if youd like to that its a free country, just don't be surprised when you end up like zimmerman, or like my buddy who did time for his bar fight incident.

the point of the neighborhood watch is to alert police to suspicious activity, not engage a suspicious person. if you actively see someone break into a house or assault someone its a bit different. no point in approaching someone walking down the street. what do you expect to gain from that? you think they are going to say, "well yes sir, i was about to rob a place, thanks for stopping me?" either the person is up to no good and therefore is going to cause you some trouble you don't want, or they are simply walking down the street. either way, approaching them and talking to them won't necessarily tell you anything, but it may get you in trouble. watch from a very safe distance until the police arrive.
According to Zimmerman- and the story the defense is presenting- Zimmerman never engaged TM, he simply observed and reported, and again, if you listen to his side of the story (and I'll repeat once more- I have no reason to not believe him) he stopped following after he reached his road, expecting to meet PD. Of course we have no positive idea what actually happened, but if Zimmerman is being truthful (it would be advised at this point), then it's pretty plain that TM got violent, regardless of if GZ provoked him or not. Bottom line- had TM not hit GZ he would probably still be alive. The rest is just immaterial really.

We don't know what really happened- either way.

Maybe G.Z. jumped on him thinking, "I'm gonna fuck this n-bomb up! I know he's a fuckin punk gonna break into our houses and steal our shit."

Or Maybe Martin said to his girlfriend (on the phone at the time), " Hang on baby, I gotta fuck up this little old fucker who's been following me, teach this little bitch a lesson!"

My guess it is somewhere closer to the latter. TM starts to run, Zimmerman follows and Martin turns on him and the fight. However, if he would have listened to the dispatch, he wouldn't be in this shit, period. This was not imminent danger that needed his immediate intervention. Let the police do what they are paid for.
What legal obligation do you have to follow the instructions of a 911 dispatcher potentially miles away from your situation? Last time I checked their instruction is not "a lawful order" like that of a sworn police officer.

[muddywings]

if we get to throw out predictions, i think he'll get manslaughter vs 2nd degree. However, from what I know, if I was on the jury, I would acquit.

[battle_sight_zero]

if we get to throw out predictions, i think he'll get manslaughter vs 2nd degree. However, from what I know, if I was on the jury, I would acquit.

Any conviction for anything would be pure bullshit and a travesty of justice. So far the prosecution has proved nothing and in fact helped Zimmerman with their witnesses. It would certainly would be a disgraceful for the justice system.

[Bailey Guns]

I said a long time ago Zimmerman will never be convicted. I'll stick to that prediction and I haven't even been following the trial. We'll see.

[muddywings]

Any conviction for anything would be pure bullshit and a travesty of justice. So far the prosecution has proved nothing and in fact helped Zimmerman with their witnesses. It would certainly would be a disgraceful for the justice system.

I agree 115.75% with you. I'm just thinking the opposite of jury nullification because of worries due to crap like this:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/if-zimmerman-get-off-ima-go-kill-a-white-boy-trayvon-martin-supporters-make-shocking-threats-ahead-of-verdict/

also, I will freely admit when people use term, "cracker" i thought it had to do with saltines. I just learned it had to do with cracking a whip. learn something new every day!

[hurley842002]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/if-zimmerman-get-off-ima-go-kill-a-white-boy-trayvon-martin-supporters-make-shocking-threats-ahead-of-verdict/

Wow people are ignorant!

So they will choose another CCW holder, that person will shoot in self defense, and then we will be back at square one....

[RblDiver]

also, I will freely admit when people use term, "cracker" i thought it had to do with saltines. I just learned it had to do with cracking a whip. learn something new every day!

...When you say something like that, it seems obvious now to me too. I always thought "white like saltines" too. +1 for knowledge :P

[muddywings]

if he isn't successful in 2nd degree it will fall flat on its ass. They can't come back and keep reducing the possible crime to test the jury to see if they will render a guilty verdict. While the jury has some flexibility, Criminal court isn't a "keep trying different charges until they give the verdict we want" type of system. If they come back not guilty for 2nd degree - that is the end of it.

i would agree but I was watching all the political/press pundits last night while making a couple of holsters and could have sworn I heard the jury had the flexibility to go to manslaughter. I'm not sure how that works. can a DA charge 1st degree, 2nd, manslaughter as well as 1st degree assault so on and so on?
kinda should be working instead of goofing off in here so if someone can check that, I would be curious....

[Whistler]

I agree 115.75% with you. I'm just thinking the opposite of jury nullification because of worries due to crap like this:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/if-zimmerman-get-off-ima-go-kill-a-white-boy-trayvon-martin-supporters-make-shocking-threats-ahead-of-verdict/

also, I will freely admit when people use term, "cracker" i thought it had to do with saltines. I just learned it had to do with cracking a whip. learn something new every day!

Bluster and hot air - posers.

[Hound]

However, if he would have listened to the dispatch, he wouldn't be in this shit, period. This was not imminent danger that needed his immediate intervention. Let the police do what they are paid for.

This is the beginning and end of it for me, period. ZM could have backed down. In the same way I expect cops to back down and de-escalate when possible, any of us CCing should also. If he had been waiting for the cop (who showed up quickly) he would have been on the road, not in the back of the apts. If this had happened in front of the Apts I might support ZM (depending on what happened). It is hard to defend being in the back for any reason if he thought the guy was dangerous. The cops had been notified, at that point, good job, he is being vigilant. I don't care about all the 911 calls before (just being vigilant). It is when he followed TM that he loses me. If he had just kept him in sight but not close enough to confront, maybe, but it immediatly goes grey at that point. Once there is ANY confrontation, at that point, ZM is in the wrong. He put himself in harms way taking responsibility for ANYTHING that happens after that. Let the cops do their job.

Anybody CCing should know to be non-confrontational unless there is a clear and present danger. Looking suspicious...does not meet that bar.

Remove yourself from confrontation.

I do have to say the prosecuting wittnesses.... Wow. Not what anybody wants to see in a trail like this.

[Hound]

if he isn't successful in 2nd degree it will fall flat on its ass. They can't come back and keep reducing the possible crime to test the jury to see if they will render a guilty verdict. While the jury has some flexibility, Criminal court isn't a "keep trying different charges until they give the verdict we want" type of system. If they come back not guilty for 2nd degree - that is the end of it.

What you are discribing is "Double Jeopardy". You are correct.

[Singlestack]

...When you say something like that, it seems obvious now to me too. I always thought "white like saltines" too. +1 for knowledge :P

I had heard "cracker" b4, but didn't really know what it meant until a couple of days ago. I suspected it might be racist, or at least a pejorative. Now that I understand what it means, I definitely think it is solidly racist as it is ascribing tyrannical slave lord behavior over defenseless black slaves. In fact, I honestly don't understand how any reasonable person could conclude otherwise? I am also to understand this is the language that many blacks, perhaps a majority, use among themselves in their own community.

For many years I had heard some who felt the next war the US was involved in would be a race war between blacks and whites. I out of hand dismissed that since the blacks I knew seemed to be respectful and very reasonable people. However, I didn't/don't live in their community and hear how they talk to each other about white people. I can only speak for myself, but I know of no white people who use racist terms toward blacks and I wouldn't have anything to do with them if they did.

With the "definition of racism" being changed by the administration as something whites do toward blacks, and therefore there is no such thing as black racism toward whites, it is clear that they are giving blacks a pass for such "cracker" etc language. If left unchecked, I can see many whites - especially those who live in/near predominantly black neighborhoods - naturally fearful of blacks in general. And if some blacks feel empowered to mistreat whites openly, this could become ugly in time.

I honestly felt that true racism was very much on the decline and the numerous and frequent charges of endless racism by liberals and progressives was without merit (still do). However, if the left really is whipping up racist frenzy in the black communities (the hip-hop and rap cultures certainly are...), this has a very bad future.

Given the above, I'm expecting Zimmerman will be acquitted of 2DM, and if that happens - race riots in many major cities. Hopefully not, of course.

[battle_sight_zero]

The media and certain government types appear to want riots.

[Ronin13]

Okay, to everyone saying he continued to follow him, when you have the time, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaua8aAUpOs
According to dispatch records and Zimmerman's testimony (backed up by CVA and poly), he stopped following to get an exact location for the PD to meet him. FYI.

Oh and those tweets by all those ignorant hoople heads, I doubt most of them have the stones to do squat- talk is cheap.

[RblDiver]

You know what I find funny? After so long proclaiming that Martin was profiled for being black, now the prosecution is saying "We never claimed this was about race." Sounds like it's not just Witness 8 who's lying now.

[tmckay2]

i think it will be a travesty if they find him guilty on 2nd degree murder, but if they do have the flexibility to drop it down i can see them finding him guilty there. although people are supposed to be acquitted if the evidence isn't pretty concrete, sadly emotions often get into it and for whatever reason people are more concerned with someone who MIGHT be guilty getting off completely, so they often do find them guilty of something. but 2nd degree murder is pretty hard to prove in this case.


if he isn't successful in 2nd degree it will fall flat on its ass. They can't come back and keep reducing the possible crime to test the jury to see if they will render a guilty verdict. While the jury has some flexibility, Criminal court isn't a "keep trying different charges until they give the verdict we want" type of system. If they come back not guilty for 2nd degree - that is the end of it.

[asmo]

i think it will be a travesty if they find him guilty on 2nd degree murder, but if they do have the flexibility to drop it down i can see them finding him guilty there. although people are supposed to be acquitted if the evidence isn't pretty concrete, sadly emotions often get into it and for whatever reason people are more concerned with someone who MIGHT be guilty getting off completely, so they often do find them guilty of something. but 2nd degree murder is pretty hard to prove in this case.

"Lesser and included..." Lookup "Merger doctrine".

[battle_sight_zero]

Gentlemen who are saying he will be found guilty of 2nd degree murder or a lesser crime , please explain why you feel that way? Personally I have not seen a damm thing brought forth that says this guy is guilty. Witness number 8 the so called Star witness has been caught in lies. If Mr.Zimmerman is convicted on anything I have seen so far presented by prosecutors then that proves our justice system is corrupt and a sham.

[Ronin13]

Gentlemen who are saying he will be found guilty of 2nd degree murder or a lesser crime , please explain why you feel that way? Personally I have not seen a damm thing brought forth that says this guy is guilty. Witness number 8 the so called Star witness has been caught in lies. If Mr.Zimmerman is convicted on anything I have seen so far presented by prosecutors then that proves our justice system is corrupt and a sham.
I concur. I'd really like to hear how Zimmerman is guilty of a crime here, and see at least something more substantial than some idiot teenage girl who wasn't even there.

[hurley842002]

I concur. I'd really like to hear how Zimmerman is guilty of a crime here, and see at least something more substantial than some idiot teenage girl who wasn't even there.

Agree, as far as I'm concerned the prosecution doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[centrarchidae]

Zimmerman's chance of a fair trial was hit below the waterline on April 29, 1992. I don't know if I'd necessarily place any bets, but the facts and the law aren't going to be the only decision factors in the jury room.


Gentlemen who are saying he will be found guilty of 2nd degree murder or a lesser crime , please explain why you feel that way? Personally I have not seen a damm thing brought forth that says this guy is guilty. Witness number 8 the so called Star witness has been caught in lies. If Mr.Zimmerman is convicted on anything I have seen so far presented by prosecutors then that proves our justice system is corrupt and a sham.

[jerrymrc]

Zimmerman's chance of a fair trial was hit below the waterline on April 29, 1992. I don't know if I'd necessarily place any bets, but the facts and the law aren't going to be the only decision factors in the jury room.

Having sat on a jury last year on a 5 day case that had a lot of he said-she said testimony is everything. When your testimony does not click with the statements you gave then big red flags pop up.

After watching the "star witness" I would not have believed her in the least. Everything after "did he talk to you that day" would go in the flusher.

The bottom line is as always. Prove beyond a reasonable doubt. So far I have not seen anything close.

[Hound]

This is the beginning and end of it for me, period. ZM could have backed down. In the same way I expect cops to back down and de-escalate when possible, any of us CCing should also. If he had been waiting for the cop (who showed up quickly) he would have been on the road, not in the back of the apts. If this had happened in front of the Apts I might support ZM (depending on what happened). It is hard to defend being in the back for any reason if he thought the guy was dangerous. The cops had been notified, at that point, good job, he is being vigilant. I don't care about all the 911 calls before (just being vigilant). It is when he followed TM that he loses me. If he had just kept him in sight but not close enough to confront, maybe, but it immediatly goes grey at that point. Once there is ANY confrontation, at that point, ZM is in the wrong. He put himself in harms way taking responsibility for ANYTHING that happens after that. Let the cops do their job.

Anybody CCing should know to be non-confrontational unless there is a clear and present danger. Looking suspicious...does not meet that bar.

Remove yourself from confrontation.

I do have to say the prosecuting wittnesses.... Wow. Not what anybody wants to see in a trail like this.

ok, they just showed ZM walking through what happened, from his side. That is plausible, stupid but plausible. He should have stayed in his truck but seeing the layout and hearing his story, if I were on the jury I would have doubt at this point. He says he was not following TM which is if'y but there is a reason for what he says he was doing. I missed the 911 call, which should have caught the WHOLE thing according to his story. Since I have not seen/heard that.... One small issue is the fruadian slip where he said he was covering his mounth and nose (meaning ZM was covering TM's mouth and nose) which he corrected himself to state it was the opposite and he was the victim. The forensic evidence is going to be interesting. What position was the gun fired from? At the ground or into the air?

[RblDiver]

Well, regardless of whether he's convicted or not, I think he has a chance of getting rich pretty soon. CNN aired some personal info of his, including SSN, DOB, address, etc. http://twitchy.com/2013/07/01/future-lawsuit-cnn-broadcasts-george-zimmermans-social-security-number/

[davsel]

ok, they just showed ZM walking through what happened, from his side. That is plausible, stupid but plausible. He should have stayed in his truck but seeing the layout and hearing his story, if I were on the jury I would have doubt at this point. He says he was not following TM which is if'y but there is a reason for what he says he was doing. I missed the 911 call, which should have caught the WHOLE thing according to his story. Since I have not seen/heard that.... One small issue is the fruadian slip where he said he was covering his mounth and nose (meaning ZM was covering TM's mouth and nose) which he corrected himself to state it was the opposite and he was the victim. The forensic evidence is going to be interesting. What position was the gun fired from? At the ground or into the air?

It really would help your argument that this man is a murderer if you perhaps did a little research and figured out WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FIRST.

Here's a good place to start:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

[bellavite1]

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q358/bellavite1/b_zps505dd64f.jpg (http://s348.photobucket.com/user/bellavite1/media/b_zps505dd64f.jpg.html)

[JlazyH]

i watched Zimmerman today explaining the fight he had with Martin just before he shot him. Zimmerman said Martin was on top of him (kicking his ass) when Zimmermans coat pulled up and Martin saw his gun. He said Martin tried to reach for it and that's when Zimmerman pulled it himself and shot him. I am not taking sides at all but I do have my thoughts on it, but. If Zimmermans coat was covering the gun and Martin didn't see it until or during the fight, It seems like it was concealed. Did Zimmerman have a CCW? It probably won't matter but the coat over the gun thing doesn't add up to me?

[muddywings]

The prosecution's witnesses are winning this for Zimmerman. I'll take back my prediction and change it with he'll be a free man shortly....with a serious issue of identity theft to worry about.

[battle_sight_zero]

i watched Zimmerman today explaining the fight he had with Martin just before he shot him. Zimmerman said Martin was on top of him (kicking his ass) when Zimmermans coat pulled up and Martin saw his gun. He said Martin tried to reach for it and that's when Zimmerman pulled it himself and shot him. I am not taking sides at all but I do have my thoughts on it, but. If Zimmermans coat was covering the gun and Martin didn't see it until or during the fight, It seems like it was concealed. Did Zimmerman have a CCW? It probably won't matter but the coat over the gun thing doesn't add up to me?

Yes he does/did have a CCW, in my thoughts this case is attack from the left on CCW and the right to self defense as much as a racial issue. The left sees an opportunity to kill several birds with one stone here. Not to be rude but I would suggest pulling up some of the trial testimony key moments and then you may see the prosecutions case does not add up http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/01/scientific-testimony-expected-from-prosecution-as-2nd-week-zimmerman-trial/ . Google/Bing Zimmermans pictures on the night of the incident http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=george+zimmerman+injury+photos&qpvt=george+zimmerman+injury+photos&FORM=IGRE . It may answer your questions about his clothing and also show you the injuries that he received. So far the is appears that the prosecution is faltering, sadly you wont hear that from much of the media, they want George to go to prison forever, but if not they get to encourage the riots to erupt if there is a hung jury or he is found not guilty. In closing this picture of Trayvon at the store where he bought skittles shows a bigger person than the media has portrayed http://mikesamerica.blogspot.com/2013/05/will-real-trayvon-martin-show-up-at.html

[sniper7]

Yes he does/did have a CCW, in my thoughts this case is attack from the left on CCW and the right to self defense as much as a racial issue. The left sees an opportunity to kill several birds with one stone here. Not to be rude but I would suggest pulling up some of the trial testimony key moments and then you may see the prosecutions case does not add up http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/01/scientific-testimony-expected-from-prosecution-as-2nd-week-zimmerman-trial/ . Google/Bing Zimmermans pictures on the night of the incident http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=george+zimmerman+injury+photos&qpvt=george+zimmerman+injury+photos&FORM=IGRE . It may answer your questions about his clothing and also show you the injuries that he received. So far the is appears that the prosecution is faltering, sadly you wont hear that from much of the media, they want George to go to prison forever, but if not they get to encourage the riots to erupt if there is a hung jury or he is found not guilty. In closing this picture of Trayvon at the store where he bought skittles shows a bigger person than the media has portrayed http://mikesamerica.blogspot.com/2013/05/will-real-trayvon-martin-show-up-at.html

The last link says quite a bit. He wasn't a small kid by any means and definitely not the picture the media has portrayed.
I won't hold anything against him for the gun, we all like guns and probably have some pictures of our guns.
It all comes down to the facts. If he attacked another man, even if being followed he was in the wrong. If Zimmerman attacked him then shot him, he was in the wrong and justice will be served. Hopefully the facts come out and the jury makes the right decision based on facts.

[battle_sight_zero]

A bump.....now as exercise on the elliptic trainer at the local 24 hour fitness. I notice the latist spin from CNN is that George may have out for blood because he had a CCW permit and get this because he had his KelTec with a round in the chamber. Apparently CNN thinks that is very dangerous and that we CCW carriers should have to rack the slide before we fire. First off I nver carry my semis without a round in the chamber, why would you? Could.be your life if you had too. Damm I hate this trial.

[cstone]

A bump.....now as exercise on the elliptic trainer at the local 24 hour fitness. I notice the latist spin from CNN is that George may have out for blood because he had a CCW permit and get this because he had his KelTec with a round in the chamber. Apparently CNN thinks that is very dangerous and that we CCW carriers should have to rack the slide before we fire. First off I nver carry my semis without a round in the chamber, why would you? Could.be your life if you had too. Damm I hate this trial.

It is an interesting look at what any of us could face if we find ourself in the situation of defending ourself or another. This trial should be an excellent example of why all of us would rather escape than confront if possible.

Be safe.

[clublights]

A bump.....now as exercise on the elliptic trainer at the local 24 hour fitness. I notice the latist spin from CNN is that George may have out for blood because he had a CCW permit and get this because he had his KelTec with a round in the chamber. Apparently CNN thinks that is very dangerous and that we CCW carriers should have to rack the slide before we fire. First off I nver carry my semis without a round in the chamber, why would you? Could.be your life if you had too. Damm I hate this trial.

A semi auto without a round chambered is a really expensive and poorly designed hammer.

[Ronin13]

Jamie Foxx on the side of his "lord and savior, Barack Obama" because if Jamie had a son he'd look... oh you get the idea.
http://unconfirmedbreakingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/JAMIE-FOXX22.jpg

[Jeff350]

Yes he does/did have a CCW, in my thoughts this case is attack from the left on CCW and the right to self defense as much as a racial issue. The left sees an opportunity to kill several birds with one stone here...

Well put. I have been trying to convey that to (generally conservative) people, and they don't understand. The media has people convinced that blood thirsty Zimmerman hunted down innocent little Trayvon (ie Obama's son), just out for an evening snack. Drives me nuts!

Even though the prosecutions case is swiss cheese, I still expect Zimmerman to be locked up.

[sniper7]

Jamie Foxx on the side of his "lord and savior, Barack Obama" because if Jamie had a son he'd look... oh you get the idea.
http://unconfirmedbreakingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/JAMIE-FOXX22.jpg

Why is treyvon white in his T-shirt?

[Gman]

Why is treyvon white in his T-shirt?
He's achieved sainthood?

If the prosecution can't prove that Zimmerman made the first move, they've got nothing. It speaks volumes that initially no charges were going to be filed against Zimmerman, but after the 'uproar', he's prosecuted. Won't surprise me a bit if there's an 'alternative shopping spree' after Zimmerman goes free.

[Bailey Guns]

In my opinion the prosecution witnesses have supplied plenty of "reasonable doubt" that Zimmerman is guilty. It almost seems as though most of the LE witnesses have gone out of their way to portray Zimmerman in the best light possible. I'm curious if there's some bad blood between the PD and the DA's office regarding this prosecution.

I still believe there's almost no chance he'll be convicted of murder.

[battle_sight_zero]

In my opinion the prosecution witnesses have supplied plenty of "reasonable doubt" that Zimmerman is guilty. It almost seems as though most of the LE witnesses have gone out of their way to portray Zimmerman in the best light possible. I'm curious if there's some bad blood between the PD and the DA's office regarding this prosecution.

I still believe there's almost no chance he'll be convicted of murder.

I thought that too that there may some bad blood. On another note breaking news on this case that just makes it even harder for the prosecution= http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/02/5539380/zimmerman-prosecutor-angela-corey.html Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Criminally Indicted By Citizens' Grand Jury For Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant And Complaint By Larry Klayman (http://www.sacbee.com/search_results/?sf_pubsys_story_byline=Larry Klayman&link_location=top)

Larry Klayman
Last modified: 2013-07-02T12:08:26Z
Published: Tuesday, Jul. 2, 2013 - 5:08 am

Copyright 2013 . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. (http://www.sacbee.com/terms-of-service)
OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Florida (http://topics.sacbee.com/florida/) State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.
The indictment of Corey, which was handed down last week (see www.citizensgrandjury.com (http://www.citizensgrandjury.com/)), charges Corey with intentionally withholding photographic evidence of the injuries to George Zimmerman's head in the warrant she allegedly rushed to issue under oath, in an effort to boost her reelection prospects. At the outset of this case, black activists such as Jesse Jackson (http://topics.sacbee.com/Jesse+Jackson/) and Al Sharpton, (http://topics.sacbee.com/Al+Sharpton/) who whipped up wrath against Zimmerman, demanded that he be charged with murder, after local police had thus far declined to arrest him pending investigation.
Following Corey's criminal complaint charging Zimmerman, legal experts such as Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz condemned her for falsely signing an arrest affidavit under oath, which intentionally omitted exculpatory evidence consisting of the photographs showing the injuries Zimmerman sustained, and rushing to charge him with second degree murder under political pressure. Dershowitz called her actions unethical and themselves crimes (http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-george-zimmerman-murder-charge-article-1.1080161).
Larry Klayman, a former U.S. Justice Department prosecutor, a Florida lawyer since 1977, and now the "citizens' prosecutor" who presided over the Ocala grand jury said this: "The Supreme Court (http://topics.sacbee.com/Supreme+Court/) has confirmed that the grand jury belongs to the American people, not the three branches of government. (504 U.S. 36, 48 (1992) (quoting United States v. R. Enterprises, Inc., 498 U.S. 292, 297 (1991)). By indicting Florida State Attorney Angela Corey, the people are exercising their God given rights, recognized by our Founding Fathers, (http://topics.sacbee.com/Founding+Fathers/) to mete out justice when the political and legal establishment subverts the rule of law. Hopefully, this indictment will serve as a warning to the political and legal establishment that they are not above the law. Ironically, Corey will now be tried and likely convicted for her alleged crimes – which resulted in Zimmerman being charged under false pretenses, now coming home to roost during Zimmerman's on-going trial. Corruption cannot be tolerated, particularly by law enforcement officers who are elected by the people to serve their ends, not the law enforcement officer's political ends."
For more information, contact: daj142182@gmail.com
Media contact: Adrienne Mazzone 561-750-9800 x210 amazzone@transmediagroup.com

SOURCE Larry Klayman

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/02/5539380/zimmerman-prosecutor-angela-corey.html#storylink=cpy

[rockhound]

I have a buddy that lives about four miles from the courthouse they are preparing for riots

[Bailey Guns]

I thought that too that there may some bad blood. On another note breaking news on this case that just makes it even harder for the prosecution= http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/02/5539380/zimmerman-prosecutor-angela-corey.html Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Criminally Indicted By Citizens' Grand Jury For Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant And Complaint

I'm not sure a "citizen's grand jury" will carry any weight with anyone. But it is interesting.

[battle_sight_zero]

Yeah just caught the citizens grand jury.

[Gman]

Seems like a kangaroo court trying to get some press time.

[MrPrena]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/03/19270677-zimmerman-received-a-in-college-course-that-addressed-self-defense?lite

Seems like it is going in favor of defendant as time goes.
Of course, this was waste of tax payers $$$ to bring this to a trial.

[muddywings]

I've read quite a bit in the news about if GZ or TM was on top/bottom during the struggle and subsequent firing of the gun. I'm not a forensic investigator, I don't know the gun/caliber involved, and I do know that not all gunshots are through and through but would the gunshot wound within TM be able to indicate the position of the body when it was shot? Hypothetically, if TM was on the ground when shot and the bullet attempted to go through the otherside, I would expect the experts could identify that type of exit wound vs an exit wound that was not stopped by the ground.
I'm ignorant but would imagine through random episodes of CSI that the wounds would be distinguishable. Anybody who has seen more episodes of CSI care to advise?

[generalmeow]

A semi auto without a round chambered is a really expensive and poorly designed hammer.

And yet I'd take a semi auto without a round chambered over a well designed hammer any day.

The odds say if you need the firearm you're carrying, you'll have time to chamber a round. In fact given that there are infinite reasons you might need a firearm, and there are less reasons you'd need a round chambered at the moment you draw the firearm, it's almost a certainty that you don't need a round chambered to make carrying a firearm worthwhile.

Bottom line: it's worth carrying a firearm, even if it's not chambered. Chambered or not is just preference, although I think you're safer, even if by a tiny amount, if you don't carry chambered. The hammer analogy doesn't make sense.

[davsel]

I've read quite a bit in the news about if GZ or TM was on top/bottom during the struggle and subsequent firing of the gun. I'm not a forensic investigator, I don't know the gun/caliber involved, and I do know that not all gunshots are through and through but would the gunshot wound within TM be able to indicate the position of the body when it was shot? Hypothetically, if TM was on the ground when shot and the bullet attempted to go through the otherside, I would expect the experts could identify that type of exit wound vs an exit wound that was not stopped by the ground.
I'm ignorant but would imagine through random episodes of CSI that the wounds would be distinguishable. Anybody who has seen more episodes of CSI care to advise?

It has already been established the gun was a 9mm, one shot, no exit, TM was on top "ground and pounding" GZ.

[muddywings]

It has already been established the gun was a 9mm, one shot, no exit, TM was on top "ground and pounding" GZ.

Thanks. Haven't been following it that close. Kinda hard to get wounds on the back of your head if u are top so I don't understand the confusion there.

[battle_sight_zero]

And yet I'd take a semi auto without a round chambered over a well designed hammer any day.Kimi

The odds say if you need the firearm you're carrying, you'll have time to chamber a round. In fact given that there are infinite reasons you might need a firearm, and there are less reasons you'd need a round chambered at the moment you draw the firearm, it's almost a certainty that you don't need a round chambered to make carrying a firearm worthwhile.

Bottom line: it's worth carrying a firearm, even if it's not chambered. Chambered or not is just preference, although I think you're safer, even if by a tiny amount, if you don't carry chambered. The hammer analogy doesn't make sense.

Yes its worth carrying a firearm, however lets look at this case. If George is telling the truth he would mould most likely be dead or suffering from severe injuries if he to cock his firearm. I admit I have several pistols in my carry rotation and for the first few times I carried my glocks or m&ps I was a bit scared and worried. I eventually got over it, and realize that the only way that they would fire accidentally is if I was careless. As I mentioned in my younger days I have been attacked out of the blue, thankfully only with clown s with knifes and because I was in great shape and trained in hand to hand I came out on the better end but I will always remember that experience and the life lessons it gave me. Now 20 some odd years later I dont have that spry ability and if I am trampled and pounded I dont want to come up the loosing end.

[Singlestack]

From what Zimmerman and the eyewitness described, I don't see how it would have been possible to rack the slide and shoot when GZ was on his back and getting pummeled. The problem is bringing your hands together to rack the slide. I can't see even trying to do an emergency blind 1-hand rack against either GZ's or Martin's body without being able to see what I was doing.

[Clint45]

I don't know the gun/caliber involved

KelTec PF9, DAO with no external safety.

[Gman]

Kel-Tec, headquartered in Cocoa, FL.

...and you realize that CSI is a whole lot of fiction? It's TeeeeeVeeeeeee.

I thought cocked & locked with a 1911 was a bit freaky....at first. But it doesn't bother me in the slightest now. I prefer it to having to get another hand or some object involved to make ready. I can bring the firearm into use with one hand if necessary as I may be using one hand defensively.

If Israeli Method (C3) carry is what you feel more comfortable with, go for it. As to the safety aspect, we all treat any firearm like it's loaded, right? What's the problem?

[muddywings]

Kel-Tec, headquartered in Cocoa, FL.

...and you realize that CSI is a whole lot of fiction? It's TeeeeeVeeeeeee.



sorry. Guess my Internet humor failed me again. :(

[generalmeow]

Yes its worth carrying a firearm, however lets look at this case. If George is telling the truth he would mould most likely be dead or suffering from severe injuries if he to cock his firearm. I admit I have several pistols in my carry rotation and for the first few times I carried my glocks or m&ps I was a bit scared and worried. I eventually got over it, and realize that the only way that they would fire accidentally is if I was careless. As I mentioned in my younger days I have been attacked out of the blue, thankfully only with clown s with knifes and because I was in great shape and trained in hand to hand I came out on the better end but I will always remember that experience and the life lessons it gave me. Now 20 some odd years later I dont have that spry ability and if I am trampled and pounded I dont want to come up the loosing end.

George Zimmerman is a pussy. He got worked over by a 17 year old.

In any case, the math in my head says that I'm more likely to have a careless accident at some point in my life with a chambered Glock, than to be in need of a chambered firearm and a split second decision to pull the trigger at some point in my life.

I carry a unchambed gun because I believe the chances of needing an unchambered firearm at some point in my life are greater than having an accident.

Its all about made up odds for me. Whatever the odds my brain makes up are what I live by, and I can appreciate that everyone else does the same.

If someone says I'd be just as safe carrying a hammer, I take offense.

[sniper7]

George Zimmerman is a pussy. He got worked over by a 17 year old.

In any case, the math in my head says that I'm more likely to have a careless accident at some point in my life with a chambered Glock, than to be in need of a chambered firearm and a split second decision to pull the trigger at some point in my life.

I carry a unchambed gun because I believe the chances of needing an unchambered firearm at some point in my life are greater than having an accident.

Its all about made up odds for me. Whatever the odds my brain makes up are what I live by, and I can appreciate that everyone else does the same.

If someone says I'd be just as safe carrying a hammer, I take offense.

Big statement calling him a pussy because a 17 year old worked him over. Plenty of 17 yo kids out there would beat your face to a pulp before you reached for your unchambered gun.

Your opinion is yours but it can be used against you. If you had enough time to pull your weapon, chamber a round then aim and fire you should have had enough time to run or fight off the attack non-lethally...then again all 17 yo kids can't take your hard ass now can they....

[generalmeow]

Big statement calling him a pussy because a 17 year old worked him over. Plenty of 17 yo kids out there would beat your face to a pulp before you reached for your unchambered gun.

Your opinion is yours but it can be used against you. If you had enough time to pull your weapon, chamber a round then aim and fire you should have had enough time to run or fight off the attack non-lethally...then again all 17 yo kids can't take your hard ass now can they....

I was Colorado 5a wrestler of the year my senior year of high school. No 17 year old could take me then, let alone now. I think I'm good.

[clublights]

I was Colorado 5a wrestler of the year my senior year of high school. No 17 year old could take me then, let alone now. I think I'm good.


If I recall right Martin was like 6'+ .. zimmerman is like 5'7" ... so he had 5+ inches on him ... like 15 years of youth.... and the surprise....

[sniper7]

I was Colorado 5a wrestler of the year my senior year of high school. No 17 year old could take me then, let alone now. I think I'm good.

Why do you carry a gun then?

[alxone]

Why do you carry a gun then?who needs a gun when he obliviously swings a purse [handbags]

[generalmeow]

Why do you carry a gun then?

Because there are people out there with weapons that I should be worried about. But they do not include unarmed lone 17 year olds. For me at least. Maybe you should be worried about them.

[Gman]

Wow.

[Bailey Guns]

Because there are people out there with weapons that I should be worried about. But they do not include unarmed lone 17 year olds. For me at least. Maybe you should be worried about them.

Just my opinion, but that's a pretty naive view of the world and some of the people in it.

Lots of people have been seriously injured or killed by unarmed 17 year old "kids". But if you feel comfortable that not a single 17 year old male anywhere could take you, I guess that's what's important.

And if you don't feel comfortable carrying a round in the chamber you need more training.

[roberth]

I have a buddy that lives about four miles from the courthouse they are preparing for riots

The authorities and we should prepare for the same thing here.

[alxone]

i have met plenty of 17 year old kids that are quite frighting

[TS12000]

I was Colorado 5a wrestler of the year my senior year of high school. No 17 year old could take me then, let alone now. I think I'm good.

Grabbing another dude in spandex is alot different than getting jumped in the street Randy Savage

[RMAC757]

If I recall right Martin was like 6'+ .. zimmerman is like 5'7" ... so he had 5+ inches on him ... like 15 years of youth.... and the surprise....

And Zimmerman had like 80 pounds on him. Have you seen him? I'm surprised he didn't eat Martin

[cofi]

And Zimmerman had like 80 pounds on him. Have you seen him? I'm surprised he didn't eat Martintry to see some of the old zimmerman interviews he was a skinny guy.....I'm assuming the stress of the trial got him eating

[Gman]

And Zimmerman had like 80 pounds on him. Have you seen him? I'm surprised he didn't eat Martin
Zimmerman has gained 120 lbs. since the event, but let's not let details get in the way.

I can imagine the guy has been going through hell over the past year.

[RMAC757]

try to see some of the old zimmerman interviews he was a skinny guy.....I'm assuming the stress of the trial got him eating

Try and look at the time he was taken into custody.....he was a fat. He then lost some weight. He was bigger than Martin when this occurred.

[RMAC757]

This thread is a car wreck. 90% of the posters are trying to convince themselves of Zimmermans innocence when in truth, nobody here has any idea what in the hell happened that night. Creating imaginary scenarios in your head about what happened that evening has no bearing on the outcome and only serves to make this whole situation more ridiculous than it already is. Martin likely wasn't the homicidal maniac many of you are making him out be and Zimmerman likely wasn't some card carrying racist vigilante as others have portrayed him. Life is not that linear. In fact, most of what has been brought up about their pasts shouldn't even have a bearing on this case. Only the events involved that night.

[RMAC757]

i just looked up on the computer, and one website listed (last year) 170# for george and 160# for the other guy. 10 pounds is nothing, if the other kid was a fighter. how many of you guys out weigh lot of guys, but couldnt fight your way out of a paper bag. sitting sedentary all day at the computer doesnt make a person fight ready.

Hey now....most of the guys on here are expert MMA fighters in multiple disciplines.

[battle_sight_zero]

When I was 17 I was 6 1 and 210 pounds. Benching over 300 pounds playing and lettering in several high school sports. Many of the kids these days are bigger and stronger than that. Many of these kids are constantly active , walking here and there where as most adults are not as active. Yeah we go to the 24 hour fitness, or jog but were mostly not on the move all the time. Underestimating a potential threat because of age could be a disaster.

[cstone]

I will be interested in hearing whether TM tried to buy some cough syrup with his Arizona Ice Tea and Skittles. A little Drank for the evening?

If GZ had been an off-duty LEO residing in the community rather than neighborhood watch, would this case have gone much differently?

When I was in uniform, 14 year olds were the most frightening individuals I dealt with. Very unpredictable and no matter how things went, I knew it would not reflect well on me or the department.

I'm not really following the trial that closely, but will be watching for the verdict and the aftermath.

[KestrelBike]

And Zimmerman had like 80 pounds on him. Have you seen him? I'm surprised he didn't eat Martin

80lbs of fat (no offense to zimmerman, I'm speaking from personal experience) is not 80lbs of muscle.

[sniper7]

Because there are people out there with weapons that I should be worried about. But they do not include unarmed lone 17 year olds. For me at least. Maybe you should be worried about them.

What about 18 year olds?

[sniper7]

This thread is a car wreck. 90% of the posters are trying to convince themselves of Zimmermans innocence when in truth, nobody here has any idea what in the hell happened that night. Creating imaginary scenarios in your head about what happened that evening has no bearing on the outcome and only serves to make this whole situation more ridiculous than it already is. Martin likely wasn't the homicidal maniac many of you are making him out be and Zimmerman likely wasn't some card carrying racist vigilante as others have portrayed him. Life is not that linear. In fact, most of what has been brought up about their pasts shouldn't even have a bearing on this case. Only the events involved that night.

Very true. Hopefully the facts come out and the jurors make educated logical decisions.

[sniper7]

Hey now....most of the guys on here are expert MMA fighters in multiple disciplines.

Ithought you were one too? All pilots I know receive hand to hand combat training. "High guard"!!!!!!!

[RMAC757]

Ithought you were one too? All pilots I know receive hand to hand combat training. "High guard"!!!!!!!

Haha. The recurrent training high guard.....I still cant believe we do that every year. I wrestled and coached for about 15 years at all levels and boxed a bit but I'm just a dad now who likes to work out. My new Martial Art involves avoiding physical confrontation if possible.

[RMAC757]

I will be interested in hearing whether TM tried to buy some cough syrup with his Arizona Ice Tea and Skittles. A little Drank for the evening?

If GZ had been an off-duty LEO residing in the community rather than neighborhood watch, would this case have gone much differently?

When I was in uniform, 14 year olds were the most frightening individuals I dealt with. Very unpredictable and no matter how things went, I knew it would not reflect well on me or the department.

I'm not really following the trial that closely, but will be watching for the verdict and the aftermath.

Hopefully with that training it would of meant that one person was still alive and the other was not awaiting trial for murder.

[cstone]

Hopefully with that training it would of meant that one person was still alive and the other was not awaiting trial for murder.

Hope is something I try never to run out of [Flower]

[hurley842002]

When I was 17 I was 6 1 and 210 pounds. Benching over 300 pounds playing and lettering in several high school sports. Many of the kids these days are bigger and stronger than that. Many of these kids are constantly active , walking here and there where as most adults are not as active. Yeah we go to the 24 hour fitness, or jog but were mostly not on the move all the time. Underestimating a potential threat because of age could be a disaster.

Very accurate statement! I witness this all the time, saw it again a few minutes ago. If I had to guess, the young man wasn't out of his teens. About 6'2 but not "buff" by most standards, putting up 300 on incline bench like it was nothing, I can't do that.

[sniper7]

Haha. The recurrent training high guard.....I still cant believe we do that every year. I wrestled and coached for about 15 years at all levels and boxed a bit but I'm just a dad now who likes to work out. My new Martial Art involves avoiding physical confrontation if possible.

Yep my favorite move is the lock and radio! Lock the door and make a call!

[funkymonkey1111]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/04/michael-savage-on-george-zimmerman-you-have-to-find-this-man-guilty-audio/

Michael Savage seems to think that if you carry a gun with a round chambered and the "safety off," well, you get the picture....

[RMAC757]

I think it's all about comfort level. If carrying a firearm with a round chambered freaks you out by all means leave the chamber empty. It'd be wise to train for that though and it will take a lot of muscle memory to be fast enough to defeat a threat with that extra step. I don't subscribe to that philosophy but that's just me.

[TFOGGER]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/04/michael-savage-on-george-zimmerman-you-have-to-find-this-man-guilty-audio/

Michael Savage seems to think that if you carry a gun with a round chambered and the "safety off," well, you get the picture....

I don't even know where to start with all the fail in this idiot's opinion piece...[facepalm]

My Keltec must be a mankiller for sure....it doesn't even HAVE an external safety. Much like a revolver, the safety is a function of not pulling the damn trigger unless one intends to shoot something...

[cstone]

http://youtu.be/bTalnzcO0xk

[Squeeze]

I agree if you don't want to carry your CCW with a round in the chamber is your choice, but remember, in a gunfight...time is money. I prefer to keep it simple and keep economy of movement in a "SHTF" situation. If I have to rack the slide when I draw my CCW, that could've been the half of a second that cost me my ass. Again, your call...but as for me, I carry with one happy hollow-headed friend in the tube and train accordingly.

[hurley842002]

I agree if you don't want to carry your CCW with a round in the chamber is your choice, but remember, in a gunfight...time is money. I prefer to keep it simple and keep economy of movement in a "SHTF" situation. If I have to rack the slide when I draw my CCW, that could've been the half of a second that cost me my ass. Again, your call...but as for me, I carry with one happy hollow-headed friend in the tube and train accordingly.

You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. If he wouldn't have had a round in the chamber, and had to rack the slide, they'd have accused him of having enough time to escape, or had an opportunity to use less than lethal force.

"Mr. Zimmerman, so you mean to tell me, that little Trayvon Martin gave you enough of an opportunity to remove your weapon, chamber a round, and fire a shot, and you took the time to do that instead of escaping?".

As far as the prosecution is concerned, nothing you do is correct, they will dissect everything you say, and turn it around on you.

[Great-Kazoo]

You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. If he wouldn't have had a round in the chamber, and had to rack the slide, they'd have accused him of having enough time to escape, or had an opportunity to use less than lethal force.

"Mr. Zimmerman, so you mean to tell me, that little Trayvon Martin gave you enough of an opportunity to remove your weapon, chamber a round, and fire a shot, and you took the time to do that instead of escaping?".

As far as the prosecution is concerned, nothing you do is correct, they will dissect everything you say, and turn it around on you.


Tell me sir, Do you still beat your wife ?


Today trademarks "mom" takes the stand. All the "EXPERTS" agree you are unable to clearly identify whose voice is whose. YET mom is going to say, very emotionally we all know, it is trademarks voice.

Having only the basic of armchair lawyering degrees i would ask. Even though Mom was not an actual witness, does this open the doors for the defense? All the "inadmissable evidence" regarding trademarks life, interaction with the law etc, should now be allowed.

Of course in reality the whole circus has been and will be fixed regarding the outcome. No matter what this jury's verdict, someone some where will push for retrial, IF he is found innocent. If guilty the appeals process will go one forever.

Perhaps one thing we might all agree on is the "public's" reaction within the "african - american" neighborhoods. [Fire]

[cofi]

Tell me sir, Do you still beat your wife ?


Today trademarks "mom" takes the stand. All the "EXPERTS" agree you are unable to clearly identify whose voice is whose. YET mom is going to say, very emotionally we all know, it is trademarks voice.

Having only the basic of armchair lawyering degrees i would ask. Even though Mom was not an actual witness, does this open the doors for the defense? All the "inadmissable evidence" regarding trademarks life, interaction with the law etc, should now be allowed.

Of course in reality the whole circus has been and will be fixed regarding the outcome. No matter what this jury's verdict, someone some where will push for retrial, IF he is found innocent. If guilty the appeals process will go one forever.

Perhaps one thing we might all agree on is the "public's" reaction within the "african - american" neighborhoods. [Fire]

His dad all ready said it wasn't trayvon voice I wonder if that's going to get brought up

[davsel]

Medical Examiner on the stand.
Nice shot - heart/lung

[RMAC757]

Tell me sir, Do you still beat your wife ?


Today trademarks "mom" takes the stand. All the "EXPERTS" agree you are unable to clearly identify whose voice is whose. YET mom is going to say, very emotionally we all know, it is trademarks voice.

Having only the basic of armchair lawyering degrees i would ask. Even though Mom was not an actual witness, does this open the doors for the defense? All the "inadmissable evidence" regarding trademarks life, interaction with the law etc, should now be allowed.

Of course in reality the whole circus has been and will be fixed regarding the outcome. No matter what this jury's verdict, someone some where will push for retrial, IF he is found innocent. If guilty the appeals process will go one forever.

Perhaps one thing we might all agree on is the "public's" reaction within the "african - american" neighborhoods. [Fire]

No Jim...No we can't. I'm not saying that some type some type of anarchy won't be incited.....somewhere. But that "African Americans" Neihborhoods will collectively riot and burn down if the verdict isn't a conviction is a bit of a broad stroke. A couple maybe, history shows that this is possible. History also shows us that blacks haven't cornered the market on murderous riots in this country.

[davsel]

Tell me sir, Do you still beat your wife ?


Today trademarks "mom" takes the stand. All the "EXPERTS" agree you are unable to clearly identify whose voice is whose. YET mom is going to say, very emotionally we all know, it is trademarks voice.

Having only the basic of armchair lawyering degrees i would ask. Even though Mom was not an actual witness, does this open the doors for the defense? All the "inadmissable evidence" regarding trademarks life, interaction with the law etc, should now be allowed.

Of course in reality the whole circus has been and will be fixed regarding the outcome. No matter what this jury's verdict, someone some where will push for retrial, IF he is found innocent. If guilty the appeals process will go one forever.

Perhaps one thing we might all agree on is the "public's" reaction within the "african - american" neighborhoods. [Fire]

No Jim...No we can't. I'm not saying that some type some type of anarchy won't be incited.....somewhere. But that "African Americans" Neihborhoods will collectively riot and burn down if the verdict isn't a conviction is a bit of a broad stroke. A couple maybe, history shows that this is possible. History also shows us that blacks haven't cornered the market on murderous riots in this country.

Please direct me to a murderous riot breaking out in this country, after a jury verdict, that did not occur in a primarily black neighborhood. I'm not definitively stating that there has not been any, just that I cannot seem to find one.

[RMAC757]

[QUOTE=RMAC757;1216357]

Please direct me to a murderous riot breaking out in this country, after a jury verdict, that did not occur in a primarily black neighborhood. I'm not definitively stating that there has not been any, just that I cannot seem to find one.

This is starting to go way off topic but if you'd like I can point you to quite a few. I'd like to not have Trayvon Martin Part Deux from last year....too ugly. Brought out the worst in everyone. Were the following the result of a Jury Verict, I don't think so. To me a riot is a riot especially when race is involved. Look up the Riots following The Jack Johnson-James Jefferies fight, The Red-Summer of 1919, Poughkeepsie Riots, Rosewood Riots, New York City Draft Riots, Chicago Riot of 1919, Los Angeles Ant-Chinese Riots, Halloween in Boulder, Apple Store opening.....you get my point. There's dozens I didn't list. Ugliness isn't reserved for one group.

[BlasterBob]

Tell me sir, Do you still beat your wife ? [Fire]

Difficult to answer that question if the Prosecutor accepts only a "yes" or "no" answer when in your mind you know that you still frequently "beat her" --- when playing various board games.

[battle_sight_zero]

SANFORD police is preparing for riots regardless of the verdict. They expect riots from the black community regardless of the verdict. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/sanford-florida-officials-preparing-riots-over-zimmerman-verdict-video


Does posting the link make me a cracker? Seriously why wreck your community? Would we have riots in the Denver area? Doubt it but you could have an angry person assault someone because of skin color etc. Just be alert but I would not downplay the potential for problems from this situation. Does not hurt to be more aware avoid places that may produce trouble as things wind down.

[funkymonkey1111]

Wild Bill on the pending white guy riots:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UJFM59NfXw

[Bailey Guns]

White Guy riots! LMAO! But he's right. In this country, anyway, white guys wouldn't do a good job of it. Now if you're a European "football" fan, who are mostly white, different story.

[RMAC757]

I think we all agree that riots suck....Soccer riots are beyond me.

[Blockhead]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/04/michael-savage-on-george-zimmerman-you-have-to-find-this-man-guilty-audio/

Michael Savage seems to think that if you carry a gun with a round chambered and the "safety off," well, you get the picture....

What an idiot. I can't stand Savage, even I agree with some of his opinions. He shows he knows nothing about guns.

[roberth]

SANFORD police is preparing for riots regardless of the verdict. They expect riots from the black community regardless of the verdict. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/sanford-florida-officials-preparing-riots-over-zimmerman-verdict-video


1Does posting the link make me a cracker? 2Seriously why wreck your community? 3Would we have riots in the Denver area? Doubt it but you could have an angry person assault someone because of skin color etc. Just be alert but I would not downplay the potential for problems from this situation. Does not hurt to be more aware avoid places that may produce trouble as things wind down.

1. No, but I'm not a liberal.
2. Because you don't like it and you know that if you destroy it you'll get something new to trash, plus maybe you can impress some bitches with your mad rioting skilz.
3. Why not, we already have had a few years of criminal black-on-white gang activity in LoDo.

Be aware of where you are and what places your journey's will take you through.

[generalmeow]

What about 18 year olds?
Yes, I would suggest that you worry about them too.

in general, I'm not worried about anyone of any age being about to take me down and ground and pound me. If i get jumped and knocked out with one punch, I wouldn't have needed a gun anyways. If someone unarmed wants to fight, or kill me, I won't say that I'm going to win decisively, just that they're not going to do to me what Trayvonn did to Zimmerman. I won't need a gun to walk away with my life.

ETA - I'm not saying all of this to brag. I never talk about my wrestling career. But you said lots of 17 year olds would beat my ass. I happen to have some evidence that isn't true.

I do not carry my gun to protect myself against unarmed people. Zimmerman would be fucked if he was an outstanding wrestler, because the jury would never believe that Trayvonn took him down and was beating him in a way that he was scared for his life. You don't think that would come up as evidence? I wouldn't believe Zimmerman. The only reason his story makes sense is because its easy to believe that a 17 year old whomped his fat ass.

[alxone]

Yes, I would suggest that you worry about them too.

in general, I'm not worried about anyone of any age being about to take me down and ground and pound me. If i get jumped and knocked out with one punch, I wouldn't have needed a gun anyways. If someone unarmed wants to fight, or kill me, I won't say that I'm going to win decisively, just that they're not going to do to me what Trayvonn did to Zimmerman. I won't need a gun to walk away with my life.

ETA - I'm not saying all of this to brag. I never talk about my wrestling career. But you said lots of 17 year olds would beat my ass. I happen to have some evidence that isn't true.

I do not carry my gun to protect myself against unarmed people. Zimmerman would be fucked if he was an outstanding wrestler, because the jury would never believe that Trayvonn took him down and was beating him in a way that he was scared for his life. You don't think that would come up as evidence? I wouldn't believe Zimmerman. The only reason his story makes sense is because its easy to believe that a 17 year old whomped his fat ass.i guess you have not been in a real street fight . just to let you know , nobody has a time out , there are no rules , no referee or judges , no body is gonna pull the 17 year old off you even if he beating your brains out with a brick ! greasing yourself up and rolling around with other dudes on a mat is a far cry from the reality of the street .

[RMAC757]

i guess you have not been in a real street fight . just to let you know , nobody has a time out , there are no rules , no referee or judges , no body is gonna pull the 17 year old off you even if he beating your brains out with a brick ! greasing yourself up and rolling around with other dudes on a mat is a far cry from the reality of the street .

Ok, I wrestled from age 5 until through my first couple years in college. Never once did I "grease myself up". I've also been had more scraps in my life than I care to admit given where we grew up. Alx.....there is/was a strong correlation between being able to fight and wrestling ( take note parents ). Wrestling is not about who's form is prettiest or what color belts you've obtained. It's straight mano y mano every time. It's about learning how to train relentlessly, fighting when you no longer have anything left and attacking when you sense weakness. You learn how to bleed....a lot, and that a shot to the head or face isn't gonna kill you. Most importantly what it's like to loose all by yourself. I'm a firm believer that kids need to learn the taste of a loss and hate it before they can ever truly become a champion. Most fights or otherwise aren't 2 guys holding their hands up and squaring up like a 1920's movie. There is usually alcohol, a woman or some other stupid catalyst involved and they happen in violent bursts. I'll take the guy who can keep control, take a shot a shot in the face and keep moving any day over black belt earned next to King Soupers. In my life I've observed more people taking flight than fight. Then again when I was younger fighting was a right of passage.....nowadays it gets you shot. What were we taking about again?

[alxone]

Ok, I wrestled from age 5 until through my first couple years in college. Never once did I "grease myself up". I've also been had more scraps in my life than I care to admit given where we grew up. Alx.....there is/was a strong correlation between being able to fight and wrestling ( take note parents ). Wrestling is not about who's form is prettiest or what color belts you've obtained. It's straight mano y mano every time. It's about learning how to train relentlessly, fighting when you longer have anything left and attacking when you sense weakness. You learn how to bleed....a lot, and that a shot to the head or face isn't gonna kill you. Most importantly what it's like to loose all by yourself. I'm a firm believer that kids need to learn the taste of a loss and hate it before they can ever truly become a champion. Most fights or otherwise aren't 2 guys holding their hands up and squaring up like a 1920's movie. There is usually alcohol, a woman or some other stupid catalyst involved and they happen in violent bursts. I'll take the guy who can keep control, take a shot a shot in the face and keep moving any day over black belt earned next to King Soupers. In my life I've observed more taking flight than fight. Then again when I was younger fighting was a right of passage.....nowadays it gets you shot. What were we taking about again?i never wrestled but i did grow up in 5 points and downtown baltimore and fighting has always been something that can get you shot where im from . never seen a fair fight in my life nor have i been in fair fight. i just think its a bit naive to think because you can wrestle that you cant get beat up by hoodlums .

[cofi]

Wrestling

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XA58MtRmEvM/TKpCeu776NI/AAAAAAAABZs/GMBVNeRuUUo/s1600/wres3.jpg

[RMAC757]

i never wrestled but i did grow up in 5 points and downtown baltimore and fighting has always been something that can get you shot where im from . never seen a fair fight in my life nor have i been in fair fight. i just think its a bit naive to think because you can wrestle that you cant get beat up by hoodlums .

I grew up in an inner city as well Alex and there is a clear distinction between "getting beat up" and being able to handle yourself. I was jumped more than once as a kid. Had the hell kicked out me a few times but was no worse for the wear. Believe it or not I got in more fights when my parents decided to move us to a mostly white, blue collar suburb outside the city for the first time. Being the first "mixed" kid in the neihborhood honed my fighting skills quickly. This is another reason why a lot of your ( not yours individually, but a large consensus on this site ) arguments make me laugh when it comes to one race attacking another disproportionally. As a kid I was on the other side of that too many times. My dad was "old school" as in handle your sh!t and don't come home crying "old school".

[RMAC757]

Wrestling

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XA58MtRmEvM/TKpCeu776NI/AAAAAAAABZs/GMBVNeRuUUo/s1600/wres3.jpg

Old Girlfriend?

[hatidua]

Any chance we could open a separate thread for the wrestling guys and keep this one on Zimmerman's trial?

[Ronin13]

Okay, point of disagreement on the riot aspect of things... Yes, the King Riots in the 1990's was mostly "urban" youth destroying their own neighborhoods... yes, if Zimmerman is found not guilty I honestly believe there will be some anger that gets it's muzzle directed at anything in particular and riots could ensue. But that Wild Bill For America video is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Apparently "Bill" has never seen what CSU students under the influence of alcohol can do when things get out of hand (Hint: the majority were white), or what excited sports fans (hockey in particular) in Denver after their team wins the Stanley Cup, or in Vancouver when their team loses in the fight for the cup- again, both mostly white. Riots are not race exclusive. However, riots like this (the possible Zimmerman riot(s)) are usually stupid exclusive. What I mean is, it's mostly people who cannot accept rule of law and the decisions of our less-than-perfect justice system. Instead of realizing that the fate of George Zimmerman has nothing to do with their own lives, they take up an excuse to go "Hulk smash" things because dammit, they're pissed off. Riots or not, if he's found not guilty, he's still guilty thanks to the court of public opinion- and dipshits like Barry Sotoro-Obama, Jamie Foxx, Al Sharpton, et al. for already finding him guilty before charges could even be filed.

ETA: I wrestled in HS, for two years- just because I did that in my past doesn't make me a badass fighter. "Oh yeah, I boxed when I was 16, no matter that I'm 30 now and haven't boxed a day since, but I can still kick anyone's ass!" <-Sounds stupid, huh? Oh and wrestling isn't this "gay" sport where you're rolling around in spandex with another man... if so then UFC is also pretty gay.

[cofi]

Oh and wrestling isn't this "gay" sport where you're rolling around in spandex with another man... if so then UFC is also pretty gay.
It's not?


Ufc seems pretty gay to me two men rolling around together wearing the tightest clothes they can find trying to put the other one in a "rear naked choke"

[Ronin13]

Ufc seems pretty gay to me two men rolling around together wearing the tightest clothes they can find trying to put the other one in a "rear naked choke"
Have you ever been choked out? I didn't feel gay or manly, I just felt unconsciousness. [Coffee]

[RMAC757]

Any chance we could open a separate thread for the wrestling guys and keep this one on Zimmerman's trial?

That would be too easy. Even the original Zimmerman trial posts were sidetracked every other comment.

[hatidua]

That would be too easy. Even the original Zimmerman trial posts were sidetracked every other comment.

well, then, viva la spandex!

[hurley842002]

well, then, viva la spandex!

Lol!

[Gman]

...in other news...
Judge rules defense can show Trayvon Martin died with marijuana in his system (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/08/zimmerman-defense-to-continue-presentation-monday/)

[davsel]

...in other news...
Judge rules defense can show Trayvon Martin died with marijuana in his system (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/08/zimmerman-defense-to-continue-presentation-monday/)

State now must argue that marijuana use is inconsequential.
NORML is celebrating.

[mtnhack]

...in other news... Judge rules defense can show Trayvon Martin died with marijuana in his system (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/08/zimmerman-defense-to-continue-presentation-monday/)Zimmerman is screwed now; everyone knows you are just mellow and chill on the herb.

[Gman]

Zimmerman said on the 911 call that it appeared the person he was watching was "on something". Looks like he was right.

[asmo]

Twitter going crazy about rioting if Zimmerman walks.. Wonder if it's too late to move to FL?

http://www.fortliberty.org/twitter-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-riot-violence.html
(http://www.fortliberty.org/twitter-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-riot-violence.html)

[clublights]

Twitter going crazy about rioting if Zimmerman walks.. Wonder if it's too late to move to FL?

http://www.fortliberty.org/twitter-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-riot-violence.html
(http://www.fortliberty.org/twitter-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-riot-violence.html)


I seem to recall inciting riot is a crime.....

nice of them to give us a list of whose doors to knock on...

[Great-Kazoo]

Have you ever been choked out? I didn't feel gay or manly, I just felt unconsciousness. [Coffee]

You have the wrong plumbing, but i'd give it a stab [LOL] candy anyone?

[Great-Kazoo]

Twitter going crazy about rioting if Zimmerman walks.. Wonder if it's too late to move to FL?

http://www.fortliberty.org/twitter-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-riot-violence.html
(http://www.fortliberty.org/twitter-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-riot-violence.html)

Just confirms the FSA doesn't want to work for anything. CAN BHO be held liable if riots do happen. He was a major voice for trademark.

[Great-Kazoo]

State now must argue that marijuana use is inconsequential.
NORML is celebrating.

From the comments section.
If Tryvone was lit you must acquit....

[generalmeow]

i guess you have not been in a real street fight . just to let you know , nobody has a time out , there are no rules , no referee or judges , no body is gonna pull the 17 year old off you even if he beating your brains out with a brick ! greasing yourself up and rolling around with other dudes on a mat is a far cry from the reality of the street .

It's funny how I never see guys in the UFC with their discipline listed as "grew up in a rough neighborhood". You may notice that there are lots of wrestlers.

Wait a second - I do remember a guy early on in the UFC that was listed as being 1000-0 in bare knuckle street fights. I think the fight lasted about 10 seconds. Can you guess who won?

If somoene wants to come at me with a brick, I don't care if they're 13 years old. If I'm scared for my life, I carry a Glock. Sans weapon/bricks, I'm not afraid of getting beaten to death by any single person. Throw in a weapon, or multiple assailants, and what are you even talking about? Wrestlers are pussies because they can't take on a guy with a weapon? They're greased up gay guys because a 17 year old with a brick could beat them to death, while they couldn't do the same to you because you grew up in a tough neighborhood?

Carry and grew up in a rough neighborhood, or carry + 20 years of wrestling experience. Which is better? Obviously carry + rough neighborhood, because you don't need to be thinking about lubing a guy up when you're about to fight to the death, do you? That would be a major distraction.

If you mention the words spandex, grease, or gay, while you're talking about wrestling, you are either incredibly ignorant, intentionally saying things you know aren't true, and/or jealous.

ETA - "I'm not afraid of getting beaten to death by any single person." I take that back. But most of the people I am afraid of are other wrestlers and or huge guys (who I wouldn't fight, and probably couldn't catch me).

[hurley842002]

It's funny how I never see guys in the UFC with their discipline listed as "grew up in a rough neighborhood". You may notice that there are lots of wrestlers.

Wait a second - I do remember a guy early on in the UFC that was listed as being 1000-0 in bare knuckle street fights. I think the fight lasted about 10 seconds. Can you guess who won?

If somoene wants to come at me with a brick, I don't care if they're 13 years old. If I'm scared for my life, I carry a Glock. Sans weapon/bricks, I'm not afraid of getting beaten to death by any single person. Throw in a weapon, or multiple assailants, and what are you even talking about? Wrestlers are pussies because they can't take on a guy with a weapon? They're greased up gay guys because a 17 year old with a brick could beat them to death, while they couldn't do the same to you because you grew up in a tough neighborhood?

Carry and grew up in a rough neighborhood, or carry + 20 years of wrestling experience. Which is better? Obviously carry + rough neighborhood, because you don't need to be thinking about lubing a guy up when you're about to fight to the death, do you? That would be a major distraction.

If you mention the words spandex, grease, or gay, while you're talking about wrestling, you are either incredibly ignorant, intentionally saying things you know aren't true, and/or jealous.

If you are going to continue the internet d$ck measuring contest, could you at least keep up with the thread, so we aren't resurrecting this crap every few days?

We know, wrestlers are the be all end all, and you can kick ANYBODY'S a$$, we get it!

[davsel]

It's funny how I never see guys in the UFC with their discipline listed as "grew up in a rough neighborhood". You may notice that there are lots of wrestlers.

Wait a second - I do remember a guy early on in the UFC that was listed as being 1000-0 in bare knuckle street fights. I think the fight lasted about 10 seconds. Can you guess who won?

If somoene wants to come at me with a brick, I don't care if they're 13 years old. If I'm scared for my life, I carry a Glock. Sans weapon/bricks, I'm not afraid of getting beaten to death by any single person. Throw in a weapon, or multiple assailants, and what are you even talking about? Wrestlers are pussies because they can't take on a guy with a weapon? They're greased up gay guys because a 17 year old with a brick could beat them to death, while they couldn't do the same to you because you grew up in a tough neighborhood?

Carry and grew up in a rough neighborhood, or carry + 20 years of wrestling experience. Which is better? Obviously carry + rough neighborhood, because you don't need to be thinking about lubing a guy up when you're about to fight to the death, do you? That would be a major distraction.

If you mention the words spandex, grease, or gay, while you're talking about wrestling, you are either incredibly ignorant, intentionally saying things you know aren't true, and/or jealous.

Then there was "Kimbo" of youtube bareknuckle fighting fame who tried out for the UFC in their "Ultimate Fighter" series. Though he was tough and entertaining, the MMA guys regularly took him out.

Walking in off the street, street-fighters do not do well against trained MMA fighters, while wrestlers tend to hold their own.

Wrestlers may not have the skill set to pull off a submission, but they know how to take an opponent down and hold them there indefinitely.

Boxers/strikers rarely know what to do once they are on the ground.

[generalmeow]

If you are going to continue the internet d$ck measuring contest, could you at least keep up with the thread, so we aren't resurrecting this crap every few days?

We know, wrestlers are the be all end all, and you can kick ANYBODY'S a$$, we get it!

Sorry for hijacking. I was originally responding to someone saying that there are lots of 17 year olds out there would could beat me to death. And now I am responding to someone who thinks wrestlers are cupcakes (and therefore I am a cupcake).

I never said I could kick anyone's ass. I didn't even suggest it, and I don't believe it. I can survive a fight, especially with a child, that's all.

[generalmeow]

I cannot wait until Zimmerman is found not guilty. I will have my popcorn ready and will plan to watch the riots all evening long!

[sniper7]

I cannot wait until Zimmerman is found not guilty. I will have my popcorn ready and will plan to watch the riots all evening long!

maybe you could go out and help the cops. you could wrestle all the rioters to the ground.

[muddywings]

I've read quite a bit in the news about if GZ or TM was on top/bottom during the struggle and subsequent firing of the gun. I'm not a forensic investigator, I don't know the gun/caliber involved, and I do know that not all gunshots are through and through but would the gunshot wound within TM be able to indicate the position of the body when it was shot? Hypothetically, if TM was on the ground when shot and the bullet attempted to go through the otherside, I would expect the experts could identify that type of exit wound vs an exit wound that was not stopped by the ground.
I'm ignorant but would imagine through random episodes of CSI that the wounds would be distinguishable. Anybody who has seen more episodes of CSI care to advise?

i'll go ahead and quote myself as it looks like the defense brought in an expert to validate my question/issue. GZ was on the ground, gun was against the clothes of TM and a few inches from his body revealing that TM clothes were hanging off of his body as if he was leaning far forward over GZ. very interesting

[davsel]

Good background on why Zimmerman is on trial.

From: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-realist/2013/jul/9/george-zimmerman-reportedly-tried-due-web-activist/

“Anyone can be the next George Zimmerman. Or even worse, you might just find yourself the next Matthew Owens (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/24/justice-for-trayvon-man-beaten-in-critical-condition-on-behalf-of-trayvon-martin/).”

[BushMasterBoy]

Good background on why Zimmerman is on trial.

Maybe because some asshat said "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAPtUfOs7Gs

[Singlestack]

...and some other guy said "If I had a daughter, she would look like Trayvon"![ROFL1]

[cstone]

Nobody is a tough guy when some random shooter puts a few through your car window or your house as they drive by. Some criminals make themselves easy to identify. Criminals come in all shapes, colors, ages, and sex.
(http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/9/_15_year_old_arreste.htmlKISSIMMEE)
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/arrests-made-fatal-osceola-county-shooting-spree/nYkBQ/

Two teens are among those arrested in connection with two murders and several shootings in Osceola County.Kissimmee Police said 15-year-old boy Konrad Schafer shot and killed 17-year-old David Guerrero around 6 a.m. Wednesday, June 26 while walking to a bus stop on his way to work.

Schafer and 20-year-old David Damus are charged with first-degree murder in Guerrero's death.Police said the teen was looking for random targets and "thought it would be fun to shoot a person."

In a news conference Tuesday, investigators revealed Shafer and Damas were also connected to the July 4 death of Eric Roopnarine. They also said ballistic evidence points to Shafer and Damas as those responsible for shooting into random homes and vehicles throughout the county.Although Damus was Schafer's driver in Guerrero's death, investigators said he pulled the trigger on Roopnarine after him and three others tried to rob the 22-year-old's house.

Those arrested in Roopnarine's murder include a 16-year-old girl, who allegedly lured him to the front door during the fatal robbery, and 20-year-old Juan Sebastian Muriel.All four are charged with first-degree murder, home invasion with a firearm and grand theft in Roopnarine's death.

Investigators believe these four had no intention of stopping their reign of terror anytime soon.“We have reasons to believe that these guys ran out of rounds," said Kissimmee Police Chief Lee Massie. "So the fact that we were able to expedite the case and get these guys off the street before they could re-up was critical.”

Police were able to link Schafer to Guerrero’s death after locating a shell casing in a retention pond.

It turns out, the casing came his father’s firearm that Schafer had taken.

Per News 13's Crime Guidelines, we do not identify juvenile suspects unless they are charged as an adult. Schafer is being charged as an adult in both crimes.Stay with News 13 and cfnews13.com for more on this developing story.

[Ronin13]

From the comments section.
If Tryvone was lit you must acquit....
This wins! I love it!
Also, read on The Blaze today the story of the forensic expert that looked at the post photos of GZ, said that his wounds were consistent with those of someone who was in a violent physical altercation, and the wounds on the back of GZ's head were consistent with those sustained from having your head smashed into a hard substance. Defense asked "Could they be from a side walk?" He said, "Yes." Done! Not guilty- class dismissed. Maroons, commence with whatever angry tantrum you like, but just be aware of the consequences.

[davsel]

[QUOTE=RMAC757;1216357]

Please direct me to a murderous riot breaking out in this country, after a jury verdict, that did not occur in a primarily black neighborhood. I'm not definitively stating that there has not been any, just that I cannot seem to find one.

Looks like I'm not the only one expecting this result:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=_AN_siaEpQA

[davsel]

There has been speculation that this trial must conclude by the end of this week due to the annual NAACP meeting scheduled for 13-17 July 2013 in Orlando Florida
http://www.naacp.org/pages/convention

Here is a video you should watch to the end to see the extent to which the State of Florida is pushing for this schedule.
There is more information in the comments and the parent site.

From: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/07/09/go-west-the-video-which-everyone-shoud-watch/

GO WEST ! The Video Which EVERYONE Should Watch !! (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/07/09/go-west-the-video-which-everyone-shoud-watch/)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=k1Zw-NjAz-I

I’m debating other issues to share. But I can GUARANDAMNTEE YOU this trial is being put on a schedule by the Federal Dept of Justice. (Civil Rights Division Dept of Community Relations Service) If I prove it – we could lose this website.
Forward this video to 6:30 to really get the flavor of judicial bias which is NEEDED in order to accomplish a goal driven by outside the FLORIDA court influences.

I’m evaluating how much we can reasonably share and cite without compromising people and structures which could be placed at risk.

[asmo]

Shorter Liberals: "Trayvon was just minding his own business beating some wetback and WHAM... motherfucker shoots him FOR NO REASON."

[Jeff350]

Incredible. I wonder how much the prosecution is paying this judge:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/10/overruled-judge-snaps-at-zimmerman-atty-after-he-objects-to-her-asking-whether-zimmerman-will-testify/


http://youtu.be/vfit-b7FU-U

[generalmeow]

maybe you could go out and help the cops. you could wrestle all the rioters to the ground.

There should be a special word for attempting to insult someone (usually in front of other people) for being able to do something special, or correctly, or having a nice bike as a kid, or following the law, or driving the speed limit, or being good looking, or having a job.

Like inner city black people probably insult each other for speaking white, when speaking white isn't actually speaking white, it's just the correct way to speak. Or calling someone a sucker for having a job, when you're unemployed. Or calling someone a nerd for getting good grades, when you yourself do not. Or I remember people would kind of say stuff under their breath in gym class about me always trying so hard, when they themselves were just lazy or terrible athletes. Or because you don't have what it takes to wrestle, wrestlers are just gay. Or if you grew up in a rough neighborhood, I'm a pussy for growing up in a nice area.

And insult isn't the correct word, because this new word would describe a situation in which the person isn't insulted or embarrassed even the tiniest bit based on where the attempted insult is coming from.

An insult would be person A embarrassing person B for spelling incorrectly. "(new word here)" would be person B attempting to embarrass person A for spelling correctly.

There's probably a German word for it.

I'm not saying I'm above it, I'm just saying it would be nice if there were a word that summarized the above so we can call people out on it and make the world a better place.

[Gman]

Can we just let this wrestling crap go? Please?

Sent from my tactical android.

[RblDiver]

An insult would be person A embarrassing person B for spelling incorrectly. "(new word here)" would be person B attempting to embarrass person A for spelling correctly.

I think troll would fit as the word. Not quite as elegant as schadenfreude, but still functional.

[Singlestack]

Incredible. I wonder how much the prosecution is paying this judge:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/10/overruled-judge-snaps-at-zimmerman-atty-after-he-objects-to-her-asking-whether-zimmerman-will-testify/


http://youtu.be/vfit-b7FU-U

Un-freaking-believable. This is judicial misconduct. "In the real world" the decision whether to testify or not is a strategy decision between counsel and the defendant - and they are entitled to change their decision as many times as they want - all the way up until either the defendant actually testifies or the last defense witness has been called. In some fairness to the judge, she is probably trying to determine if the defense will rest today to after today based on if Zimmerman will testify - but not allowing defense counsel to handle that and answer is grossly improper. As long as Zimmerman understands his rights and chooses not to testify, that should be sufficient for the judge.

[RblDiver]

Well, that judge did get quite uppity and obnoxious there, but I have to admit, I don't understand what the objection was for (not being a lawyer et al).

[Bailey Guns]

Wow. I've never seen, or heard of, a judge pressing a defendant like that. Zimmerman and his attorney's seemed stunned...for good reason. It was almost like the judge was looking for a reason (or trying to fabricate a reason) for someone to ask for a mistrial.

[TFOGGER]

Well, that judge did get quite uppity and obnoxious there, but I have to admit, I don't understand what the objection was for (not being a lawyer et al).

If he is being represented by counsel, any questions should be directed to his lawyers, except(if and) when he is on the stand.

[RblDiver]

If he is being represented by counsel, any questions should be directed to his lawyers, except(if and) when he is on the stand.
Ah, makes sense.

[Jeff350]

I would be interested to know if that exchange took place in front of the jury. If it did, I would say the defense should be moving for a mistrial. I'm not a lawyer, but I know that a defendant does not have to testify. It is up to the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he is guilty! Apparently this judge thinks its her job to prove he is guilty.

[Gman]

Wow. What's the point of legal representation if the judge is going to simply ignore it?

I can understand why the defense appears confused. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't think the defense wants a mistrial. The prosecution might. I think this trial was over after the first few prosecution witnesses.

[Singlestack]

^^^ +1. Totally agree; the defense wants acquittal of all charges and not a mistrial. I heard earlier on Hannity that the Judge is considering allowing the prosecution to reduce the charge from Murder 2 to manslaughter. I understand that is judicial discretion, but not often allowed.

[trlcavscout]

Have the riots started yet? I am just hoping to see some real death and dismemberment type shit going on! You know stupid people getting stupid and other people shutting them down type shit.

[Boadie30]

Manslauter has been on the table along with murder 2 from the start..

[hatidua]

Manslauter has been on the table along with murder 2 from the start..

Sounds like aggravated assault is on the menu as well. The state wants a conviction of something, even if it's not murder.

If he's acquitted, and there are riots, I may have to actually watch TV for the first time in years...

[brokenscout]

There will be riots no matter what

[Boadie30]

However, based on the facts. of the case, if he is not found guilty on murder 2, meaning Z acted in self defense.. based on what I understand he can not be guilty of the other 3.. There is 4 possible now, just can't remember the last one..

[hatidua]

Will this thing theoretically go to the jury before the weekend?

[Boadie30]

Would, should go to the jury by Friday... should, probably work through weekend.

[sniper7]

There should be a special word for attempting to insult someone (usually in front of other people) for being able to do something special, or correctly, or having a nice bike as a kid, or following the law, or driving the speed limit, or being good looking, or having a job.

Like inner city black people probably insult each other for speaking white, when speaking white isn't actually speaking white, it's just the correct way to speak. Or calling someone a sucker for having a job, when you're unemployed. Or calling someone a nerd for getting good grades, when you yourself do not. Or I remember people would kind of say stuff under their breath in gym class about me always trying so hard, when they themselves were just lazy or terrible athletes. Or because you don't have what it takes to wrestle, wrestlers are just gay. Or if you grew up in a rough neighborhood, I'm a pussy for growing up in a nice area.

And insult isn't the correct word, because this new word would describe a situation in which the person isn't insulted or embarrassed even the tiniest bit based on where the attempted insult is coming from.

An insult would be person A embarrassing person B for spelling incorrectly. "(new word here)" would be person B attempting to embarrass person A for spelling correctly.

There's probably a German word for it.

I'm not saying I'm above it, I'm just saying it would be nice if there were a word that summarized the above so we can call people out on it and make the world a better place.

I don't get it. are you insulted or not? I didn't know inner city black people spoke white or black. All the inner city black people I have meet (several hundred of them and a few I consider friends, many more I at least know their names as I work with them on occasion since I work near college park Georgia...don't know what that is, then listen to a few rap songs and it gets mentioned), they speak English and I can understand it fine. I guess I don't know where you are taking the racist remarks. Are there outer-city black people who speak white or speak outer-city black?
Which brings me to asking you how to speak white? Is that supposed to be an intellectual attack on people of any color? Do you think you are a better speaker than they are....just as you think you are a better fighter than someone else because you wrestled?


You're attitude toward thinking you are a badass because you wrestled some kids in highschool and then posting it on the internet has made you look like a moron. Your comments went beyond a normal retard behind a keyboard and took internet wrestling commando to a whole new level.

I played many sports in school including baseball and did quite well but you don't see me making posts that all I need is a baseball in my pocket because I could pitch one right at their face and knock them out...or maybe carry a bat and take on any wannabe thugs that roll my way. I'm not in high school any more. I carry a gun now.

anyways, get over yourself. if you can't, I'll wrestle you for it.

[sniper7]

Wow. I've never seen, or heard of, a judge pressing a defendant like that. Zimmerman and his attorney's seemed stunned...for good reason. It was almost like the judge was looking for a reason (or trying to fabricate a reason) for someone to ask for a mistrial.

pretty unprofessional on the judge's part. I believe she was trying to get a set deadline but neither Zimmerman or his lawyers had decided or set a time yet. Or they might have an ace in the hole or something as well and just saving it if something comes up and trying to avoid putting GZ on the stand to let the prosecution go over every detail and look for discrepancies between his testimony and his previous comments/statements etc.