HB1229 stupidity strikes again.....

[clublights]

Unintended or by design?


http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/second-amendment-2/colorado-woman-cant-get-her-gun-back-thanks-to-new-law


Colorado’s controversial new gun law requiring a background check for any transfer of a firearm has left one woman unarmed.Now she’s frustrated that her weapon, taken by police for safekeeping after a car accident, isn’t being returned.
Sara Warren said Fort Collins police took her Ruger SR9, which she uses for personal protection in her job as a maid when visiting clients’ homes, after an accident required her to be transported to the hospital.
The police want to give it back, but a new universal background check law passed last year amid much controversy requires a Federal Firearms License background check.
Fort Collins police don’t have an FFL holder on staff.
“We had an opinion from our city attorney and district attorney not to return firearms without a (Federal Firearms License) check, and we don’t have an FFL person in our office,” Fort Collins deputy chief Jim Szakmeister told the Loveland Reporter Herald.
Warren said she’s been in touch with the police repeatedly about getting her gun back, but was given no options, the paper reported. She said she’s turned down jobs because she doesn’t feel safe entering strangers’ homes without protection.




“I’m a lawful citizen,” she told the Reporter Herald. “I use my gun legally. I need my gun. This is ridiculous to me. There are people out there who can’t get their guns back. They haven’t done anything wrong.”The background check law, and another that limits the size of ammunition magazines, spurred gun owners to recall two Democratic state senators who supported them last year. Another resigned rather than face a recall.
Most of Colorado’s elected sheriffs filed suit against the state to overturn the laws, which they say are either unenforceable or place too much of a burden on law-abiding gun owners.
“I’m told there are other people in this situation,” Sheriff Justin Smith told the Reporter Herald, referring to Warren’s inability to get her gun back. “It’s terrible when a law-abiding citizen gets caught up in something like this and it causes them to lose faith in their government.”
The police have hit on a one-time solution and are arranging for Warren and others in a similar situation to meet officers at a local outdoor store with an FFL license. Szakmeister told the newspaper he’s not sure who will pay for the background checks.
“We’re working on a long-term solution,” he said. “The greatest solution would be for the legislators to put in a police exemption. Otherwise we’re probably going to have to get an FFL and find someone in the office willing to work in that capacity.”

[SideShow Bob]

Just a thought, is the police dept. also in violation of the law, as it is written, by taking prossession of the firearm in the first place ?

[rbeau30]

Just a thought, is the police dept. also in violation of the law by taking prossession of the firearm in the first place ?

Laws don't apply to the ruling class.

[kidicarus13]

Glad it wasn't a gun with >15rd magazine or she'd really be screwed. Thank you State of Colorado, now where's my bong? [eyes roll]

[DavieD55]

There needs to be a public outcry from 2A supporters and pressure needs to be applied until they give it back to her. That is BS!

[GilpinGuy]

This blows my mind. The police can't run a background check.....oh wait. There's supposed to be a fee. I see.

[sniper7]

Total bullshit.

[DavieD55]

If the firearm in question wasn't used in the commission of a crime it needs to be returned to the property owner.

[theGinsue]

Heard about this the other day. She is getting her gun back, but it's been a struggle to make them come up with a workable solution. I wonder how many others in similar situations have been effected the same way.

Some question if this sort of thing is an Unintended Consequence of HB1229. I wonder if it wasn't intentionally designed this way.

[Hound]

So, cops can't run a background check? I am missing something here? How are they not able to run the same check as an FFL?

[DavieD55]

So, cops can't run a background check? I am missing something here? How are they not able to run the same check as an FFL?

Did she do something that should warrent a background check? Good point... It just demonstrates the incompetence of the law and the incompetence of those who are trying to uphold it.

[Irving]

Extremely simple solution. Go to an FFL. Heck, I'll pay her fee.



Glad it wasn't a gun with >15rd magazine or she'd really be screwed. Thank you State of Colorado, now where's my bong? [eyes roll]

This is a good question though. Although I suppose that they could just give the mags back to her, as they do not require a transfer, and she'd still be stuck in the same situation with the gun. I often wonder how this law will effect insurance companies from taking possession of firearms.

[KestrelBike]

Glad it wasn't a gun with >15rd magazine or she'd really be screwed. Thank you State of Colorado, now where's my bong? [eyes roll]
I'm pretty sure the standard magazines are 17rds!

[King]

Just a thought, is the police dept. also in violation of the law, as it is written, by taking prossession of the firearm in the first place ?

She was transported to the hospital. I assume she had it on her because weapons, even knives, arent allowed on the bus. It is standard practice to place weapons in safe keeping for folks being transported by medical. Now the whole not getting it back is BS

[King]

So, cops can't run a background check? I am missing something here? How are they not able to run the same check as an FFL?

Cops can run CCIC and NCIC checks on people. Im not sure if the FFL check is any more extensive than that

[Dave]

So are all PD's going to have to keep an FFL on staff for these scenarios?

[BPTactical]

City Attorney is a dumbass. BGC for "Operations of Law" are exempt, just the same as Gunsmithing operations.
The City can just return the firearm to the lawful owner.
Now here is where it gets interesting: define "Operation of Law". Did the owner commit a crime with the firearm? Is she suspected of committing a crime? Was the firearm used in commission of a crime?
If the answer to any of the above is no then the "Operations of Law" may very well not apply.
The PD may have unknowingly violated the statute by retaining possesion of the firearm in excess of 72 hours (IIRC that is the magic # for "Temporary transfer).

That being said again, the City Attorney is making this unnecessarily complex.
Have a representative of the City with possession of the firearm meet the owner at a FFL.
Transfer the firearm in compliance with the statute.
If they don't I am curious what legal recourse the owner may have.

Unintended Consequences indeed.

[kidicarus13]

Who's paying the FFL per CRS?

[spleify]

Terrible situation for this women, I hope it all works out.

[ChadAmberg]

Are they going to charge her more than 10$ for the BGC? Heheh.

But yes, unnecessarily stupid of course. Of course the law was written poorly. And of course, either the police should just give her back her gun, or take her over to an FFL and get them to BGC and be done with it and gotten it done quickly, rather than draw it out by giving it to the lawyers to hash out.

[buffalobo]

Ridiculous situation.

[T-Giv]

Completely ridiculous! I have to disagree with those suggesting just to "meet her at an FFL and do the check". That will pave the way for this type of thing to happen every time someone comes into contact with LE and is armed under similar circumstances. The Police will also have a huge delay in getting the check done because rest assured once they have possession of the gun they won't be very motivated to get the check done and return it. They should give the gun back as soon as she came into the station to get it. End of story.

[KestrelBike]

Not sure why no one isn't challenging dumbfuck lawyers the PD asked about it all in the first place.

[Hound]

As stupid as this is... It is a good thing that it is happening. This is another example of how these laws were not thought out and were a knee jerk reaction to a news cycle. I feel sorry that she has to be the poster child but every time these problems creep up it shines a spot light on the situation. I look at this as if my trusted friend John Doe had borrowed my gun and 72hrs later refused to give it back. What am I supposed to do then... Take John to court of course.

[BPTactical]

As stupid as this is... It is a good thing that it is happening. This is another example of how these laws were not thought out and were a knee jerk reaction to a news cycle. I feel sorry that she has to be the poster child but every time these problems creep up it shines a spot light on the situation. I look at this as if my trusted friend John Doe had borrowed my gun and 72hrs later refused to give it back. What am I supposed to do then... Take John to court of course.

Exactly, this illustrates the ignorance of this law and maybe the City is doing this to bring light to the stupidity.

[MattR]

I was curious if the city wasn't making this hard on purpose as a way of showing how the law won't work as written. Is their Sherriff in law suit?

[Rucker61]

This blows my mind. The police can't run a background check.....oh wait. There's supposed to be a fee. I see.

I've got friends on the Fort Collins PD. They've said that if a cop is involved in a shooting, and his gun is impounded, once he's cleared, he has to pass a BGC for him to have his gun reissued. I believe the same applies for when he passes rifle qualification and is issued an AR - must pass a BGC. They're against all of the new laws as much as we are.

[Rucker61]

Heard about this the other day. She is getting her gun back, but it's been a struggle to make them come up with a workable solution. I wonder how many others in similar situations have been effected the same way.

Some question if this sort of thing is an Unintended Consequence of HB1229. I wonder if it wasn't intentionally designed this way.

I'd say no, because the folks that drafted all of the legislation are too stupid to do so.

[SideShow Bob]

I've got friends on the Fort Collins PD. They've said that if a cop is involved in a shooting, and his gun is impounded, once he's cleared, he has to pass a BGC for him to have his gun reissued. I believe the same applies for when he passes rifle qualification and is issued an AR - must pass a BGC. They're against all of the new laws as much as we are.

But how is the FCPD conducting said BGCs ? Are they doing them through the PD ? Do they have an FFL on staff ? Or are they going over to a LGS for an FFL to conduct these checks ? And are they doing on the property room person after to firearm has been there in excess of the 72 hrs. allowed for temporary transfers allowed by the now existing laws ?

[DavieD55]

Regardless of what fudley and dudley do gooder thinks, she shouldn't have to go through any background checks to retrive her private property that wasn't involved in a crime.

[kidicarus13]

I'd like to see a lawsuit come out of this. I'd also like to see a Democratic Representative get denied on their BGC.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Personally, I think FCPD is being intentionally obtuse on this. If they can "hold temporarily" without having an FFL or BGC, they can return to the original owner without same.

[Rucker61]

But how is the FCPD conducting said BGCs ? Are they doing them through the PD ? Do they have an FFL on staff ? Or are they going over to a LGS for an FFL to conduct these checks ? And are they doing on the property room person after to firearm has been there in excess of the 72 hrs. allowed for temporary transfers allowed by the now existing laws ?

No idea. rdavis@fcgov.com or 970 221-6540

[crays]

Exactly, this illustrates the ignorance of this law and maybe the City is doing this to bring light to the stupidity.

I would doubt this, Bert. Unless my perception of the city of Fort Collins as being left-leaning is errant. If my perception is off, I'd be more that willing to hear otherwise (would love to find out I'm wrong about FC).

Sent via Mobile Work Avoidance Device

[Great-Kazoo]

I've got friends on the Fort Collins PD. They've said that if a cop is involved in a shooting, and his gun is impounded, once he's cleared, he has to pass a BGC for him to have his gun reissued. I believe the same applies for when he passes rifle qualification and is issued an AR - must pass a BGC. They're against all of the new laws as much as we are.


IF a LE has to confiscate a firearm they have to do a BG check on them self prior to taking it. Local LE's unless they are responding to a DV call. They have been instructed to NOT remove a firearm from the property w/out doing one.


I would doubt this, Bert. Unless my perception of the city of Fort Collins as being left-leaning is errant. If my perception is off, I'd be more that willing to hear otherwise (would love to find out I'm wrong about FC).

Sent via Mobile Work Avoidance Device


Larimer Cty SO is firearm friendly Ft. Collins PD (city) is far from it.

[Dlesh123]

City Attorney is a dumbass. BGC for "Operations of Law" are exempt, just the same as Gunsmithing operations.
The City can just return the firearm to the lawful owner.
Now here is where it gets interesting: define "Operation of Law". Did the owner commit a crime with the firearm? Is she suspected of committing a crime? Was the firearm used in commission of a crime?
If the answer to any of the above is no then the "Operations of Law" may very well not apply.

I am trying to understand your last sentence. If operations of law are exempt, then I would think that if there were none of the listed transgressions, then it WOULD apply and the gun just returned to its owner.

[wctriumph]

There are some interesting points being made here. I am on the Larimer County District Attorney's community advisory board and we will be having a quarterly meeting tomorrow and this is one of the issues I will bring up with the district attorney.


TEA

III

[Hound]

There are some interesting points being made here. I am on the Larimer County District Attorney's community advisory board and we will be having a quarterly meeting tomorrow and this is one of the issues I will bring up with the district attorney.


TEA

III

Great, Thank you.

[Great-Kazoo]

There are some interesting points being made here. I am on the Larimer County District Attorney's community advisory board and we will be having a quarterly meeting tomorrow and this is one of the issues I will bring up with the district attorney.


TEA

III

still on OFA's mailing list?

[ray1970]

Regardless of what fudley and dudley do gooder thinks, she shouldn't have to go through any background checks to retrive her private property that wasn't involved in a crime.

This. It is her personal property. I doubt she asked the police to temporarily keep an eye on it for her. If they took possession of your lawn mower and you hadn't committed a crime I bet they would just give it back.

Personally, I would have had the media and an attorney down at the station the same day they refused to return my personal property.

[wctriumph]

still on OFA's mailing list?

Yes, but I don't go to the meetings anymore. I get emails and such but ...

I was pretty disgusted by the people at these meetings and I just could not take it any longer so I bailed on the meetings. Tell you what, they are making Corey Gardner the major target in the upcoming elections. They HATE him with a passion you would not believe.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The Left just hates period. Part of it has to do with fielding candidates that don't engender any great support on their own but the Republicans do that too and just flop on their face instead of creating vast columns of unmitigated and uninformed hate the way the Left does. I think part of it is a self-breeding bias toward irrationality since the Left treasures "feelings" above all else (which is not to say the Right is completely rational either).

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

This. It is her personal property. I doubt she asked the police to temporarily keep an eye on it for her. If they took possession of your lawn mower and you hadn't committed a crime I bet they would just give it back.

Personally, I would have had the media and an attorney down at the station the same day they refused to return my personal property.
Why would the media work against their own agenda?

[Dave_L]

This may have been asked but imagine the storm if something happened to her while the police had her firearm?

[crays]

REPORT IT STOLEN. The 72hr "temp loan" period has lapsed, yet the firearm has not been returned.
Opens up a whole new can of worms, but it might stir them to action.

Sent via Mobile Work Avoidance Device

[Hound]

The Left just hates period. Part of it has to do with fielding candidates that don't engender any great support on their own but the Republicans do that too and just flop on their face instead of creating vast columns of unmitigated and uninformed hate the way the Left does. I think part of it is a self-breeding bias toward irrationality since the Left treasures "feelings" above all else (which is not to say the Right is completely rational either).

Both sides spew hate... Obama ... Hickenlooper... being mentioned brings it out on the right, Bush and Channey on the left. This all points to more of "the man" doing a good job to separate us in the ultimate divide and conquer. Both sides are full of it. I find that when I talk to the average Joe (left or right) We can find more we agree with than disagree. Just saying

[wctriumph]

At the community advisory meeting today I brought this up with the Larimer county DA and one of the assistant DA's The city wants to give her back her gun but it is waiting for guidance from the state attorney general on how to go about it and, he agreed that the city may be in violation of the law for taking possession of her gun in the first place. The DA did confirm that when a new police officer is minted for Larimer county or Ft. Collins that they go over to JAX Outdoors in N. Ft. Collins and the new LEO must undergo a BGC before they are issued their duty firearm. There are no exceptions in the law for anyone and they thought it pretty funny that a bunch of lawyers in the state legislature could write such a law. It went undiscussed after I mentioned that there was a political agenda that was driving the law and even the ACLU member of the committee admitted that although she was in favor of the law, she realized that it was a politically agenda driven law. We moved on to other items for discussion.

[Superorb]

Can the woman go to the local Sheriff who is more gun friendly since the cops are holding her firearm illegally?

[def90]

It went undiscussed after I mentioned that there was a political agenda that was driving the law and even the ACLU member of the committee admitted that although she was in favor of the law, she realized that it was a politically agenda driven law.

Newtown was a reason/excuse, but in the end these laws were direct retribution for Amendment 43 and the failed attempts by Colorado Reps on the abortion/personhood amendments 48 and 62 over the previous years.

[WETWRKS]

Newtown was a reason/excuse, but in the end these laws were direct retribution for Amendment 43 and the failed attempts by Colorado Reps on the abortion/personhood amendments 48 and 62 over the previous years.

I don't buy that for a second. The liberals would have persued this reguardless of what the republicans had tried to pass. Bloomberg made calls and spent $ to push this and our VP made calls as well.

[wctriumph]

I don't buy that for a second. The liberals would have persued this reguardless of what the republicans had tried to pass. Bloomberg made calls and spent $ to push this and our VP made calls as well.

Exactly right, the CO dem's were simply following "party" orders. Every state that had dem majorities in their legislature tried to pass these laws, CA, CO, NY, CT, NJ all come to mind. Party politics all the way.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Newtown was a reason/excuse, but in the end these laws were direct retribution for Amendment 43 and the failed attempts by Colorado Reps on the abortion/personhood amendments 48 and 62 over the previous years.

Bovine excrement. As Superorb stated, the Dems would have pursued this agenda regardless. Bloomberg and Feinstein have been pursuing this since well before any of those amendments were proposed.

[BPTactical]

Shit, Fineswines been at it since before Klinton signed the AWB and Bloomingidiot just as long.

[kidicarus13]

Any update on this?

[Ridge]

Any update on this?

Saw an article recently that the police station had gotten together with a nearby FFL to take care of the transfers back to the owners of multiple firearms.

[kidicarus13]

Saw an article recently that the police station had gotten together with a nearby FFL to take care of the transfers back to the owners of multiple firearms.


Wonder who got stuck paying the $10 CBI fee?

[SideShow Bob]

Wonder who got stuck paying the $10 CBI fee?

And what kind of fees on top of the BGC did they charge the owners of firearms that were returned ?