Police Brutality is not just for blacks any more [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

Tristan

05-17-2009, 22:27

America is doomed Check points are okay? Constitution free zones?
Until someone comes up with a better idea, I'm all for it. If we didn't have the checkpoints, illegals would be running over us more than they are now. Open roads for the drug smugglers. Is that what you want?
I have nothing to hide anyways. Why would an average American citizen worry about a checkpoint that is not designed for them? I've crossed them many times. Owned a condo on South Padre for years and years. Never got searched even once.
Maybe it's just the cop in me speaking, but if you look guilty you probably are.

GunTroll

05-17-2009, 22:31

Until someone comes up with a better idea, I'm all for it. If we didn't have the checkpoints, illegals would be running over us more than they are now. Open roads for the drug smugglers. Is that what you want?
I have nothing to hide anyways. Why would an average American citizen worry about a checkpoint that is not designed for them? I've crossed them many times. Owned a condo on South Padre for years and years. Never got searched even once.
Maybe it's just the cop in me speaking, but if you look guilty you probably are.

One idea....Send them home when you stop/catch them! If not you personally then someone further up the ladder needs to.

ChunkyMonkey

05-17-2009, 23:55

One idea....Send them home when you stop/catch them! If not you personally then someone further up the ladder needs to.

I wish that works.. I say, AT LEAST put them into community service work to clean the damn border area, then send them back - at least teach them some lesson and gain back some while at it..!

GunTroll

05-18-2009, 12:42

I wish that works.. I say, AT LEAST put them into community service work to clean the damn border area, then send them back - at least teach them some lesson and gain back some while at it..!

I like the sound of that!

Irving

05-18-2009, 12:55

Until someone comes up with a better idea, I'm all for it. If we didn't have the checkpoints, illegals would be running over us more than they are now. Open roads for the drug smugglers. Is that what you want?
I have nothing to hide anyways. Why would an average American citizen worry about a checkpoint that is not designed for them? I've crossed them many times. Owned a condo on South Padre for years and years. Never got searched even once.
Maybe it's just the cop in me speaking, but if you look guilty you probably are.

You must be joking. Why in the hell would I NOT be bothered by check points within the borders of the country?

GunTroll

05-18-2009, 13:06

I've been through one down in TX 12 years ago. Nothing new here. They just waved me through once they saw I was white and had no Hispanics in my car. I'm not saying I like it but it wasn't bad for me back then. They were definitely profiling back then.

jackmode9316

05-18-2009, 13:35

Ive passed through the checkpoint several times in San Diego. Im white though, so I didnt even come to a complete stop.

ssf467

05-18-2009, 14:03

Until someone comes up with a better idea, I'm all for it. If we didn't have the checkpoints, illegals would be running over us more than they are now. Open roads for the drug smugglers. Is that what you want?
I have nothing to hide anyways. Why would an average American citizen worry about a checkpoint that is not designed for them? I've crossed them many times. Owned a condo on South Padre for years and years. Never got searched even once.
Maybe it's just the cop in me speaking, but if you look guilty you probably are.

You're joking right? How about a secure boarder that doesn't violate the 4A?

Tristan

05-18-2009, 14:10

You must be joking. Why in the hell would I NOT be bothered by check points within the borders of the country?
lol. You always gotta argue with everybody, don't you?
You got a better place for them Mr. Smarty Pants?[ROFL1]
Question remains the same. If you got nothing to hide, then why would it bother you? It's not infringing on your rights in any way. Or, like stated earlier, would you rather there be no checkpoints?
And since you don't seem to have a clue, do a Google map and you'll find out why they're not at the borders. But just to be nice, it's because there are way too many roads and back country to go through. A lot of it private land, also. The checkpoints being where they are really is about the best place to put them.
I don't see you crying about the Canadian borders. Hmmm...
Once again, all this talk but no better solution.
I, of course am all for a wall or a "make my country" law.
Offer rational statements or solutions, not further questions. That accomplishes nothing.

You're joking right? How about a secure boarder that doesn't violate the 4A?Okay......I guess I am unclear how checkpoints looking for illegals, drug dealers and BGs in general violates your 4th Amendment rights. The checkpoints don't. Sometimes rotten apples in uniform do, but, just like I said to Turtle, you got a better idea?
Oh, and if either of you do, then write your Sen. and Congressmen.
WTF do you expect me to personally do? Go and get all the bad guys for you? Go do it yourself.
Of course, that would take balls, not internet whining......

Irving

05-18-2009, 14:15

Tristan

05-18-2009, 14:23

I don't have another solution, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to be against laying down and having my rights trampled. My esposa is from El Salvador and is a resident alien. Why should I be stopped at a check point every time because she looks hispanic? If I've done nothing wrong, then I shouldn't be disturbed at all. I guess if you haven't done anything wrong, then you wouldn't mind getting a cavity search at one of those check points right? I mean, you have nothing to hide right?
lol, I guess it would depend on how hot she was, he-he.
And, again, you're being ridiculous. Why would I get searched, let alone a BCS if I've done nothing wrong.
And, again, offer a better solution. You're saying the same thing again. Bitching about your wife being hispanic (as is my ex) and being profiled. I know. But what better idea do you have? How can one not profile? There are choices here. To profile or not to profile. So, if we don't profile, and let every hispanic pass unobstructed, well, that would kinda defeat the purpose, eh?
So why are you blaming fellow Americans instead of the bad illegals who caused all this shit?
And you tell me how an officer is to determine whether you and your wife are BGs or not.
And, again, how are your rights being violated? I still don't see it.

Irving

05-18-2009, 14:33

ssf467 already gave you the better solution, NO check points within the borders. You want more than that? Every year, every business in the states is audited and the legality of every employee is checked. Those who aren't legal are deported. I'm against big government, but if companies aren't going to filter their employees, then they've forced the government's hand to do it for them. Many companies run back ground checks before hiring people, but I feel like they dig up too MUCH info that way. For example, it shouldn't matter if you are a felon or something, if you've served your full time.

Perhaps a better way would be to audit companies and see what they are paying people. No one is paying illegals MORE than they would pay a legal person. If you force companies to pay at least minimum wage, then hiring illegals for the SAME cost as a legal person will no longer be so alluring. I don't like that idea either though, since I'm not sure where I stand on the concept of a minimum wage. Besides that, you can't legislate behavior, so you'll never be able to rid the country of crooked accountants etc.

I don't have all the answers, but that should never exclude me from pointing out what is a bad, or even illegal, way to fight a problem. Just because I don't have the answers to solve every economic problem, or even just one, does NOT forfeit my right to bitch about injustices.

Tristan

05-18-2009, 14:47

Agreed 99%. Especially on the companies bit.
But it would be logistically impossible to put the checkpoints at the border.
And anyone with officer military training would also know why you don't put checkpoints at the borders themselves. You have to have strategically located spots, and that's where they are.
And with no checkpoints....
Trust me-read my earlier post about sportsman's. I can't stand illegals. Especially since a lot of companies offer better wages to anybody that is bilingual. But whatever.
I understand venting. But things need to be accomplished. But blaming fellow Americans and the good folks who put their lives on the line to protect YOU really pisses me off.
Hell, I've been shot at by the bastards. My solution is a little extreme.
But, I still have to hear how anybodies fourth amendment rights (which is what this is supposed to be about) got violated.
Preacher boys' didn't. He resisted arrested and did not comply with a lawful order after a dog (which are pretty infallible) fingered his car. Or what, as officers, they're supposed to let every tom dick and harry tell them what to do?
Silly.
He's lucky he didn't get it worst. People are scared. So try to their job, being afraid. You don't know who to trust and who not to. You don't know by skin color, accent or anything else who is a BG.
Then you get somebody who just wants to argue with you. Blah.
I'd of kicked his ass worst.

Irving

05-18-2009, 15:07

I've been thinking about police dogs lately. It seems to me that it'd be pretty easy to train a dog to bark at a car with a code word. Then, you could search whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted.

Hoser

05-18-2009, 15:26

I've been thinking about police dogs lately. It seems to me that it'd be pretty easy to train a dog to bark at a car with a code word. Then, you could search whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted.

Not everyone. Just the ones with the tin foil hats that are on way too tight.

ChunkyMonkey

05-18-2009, 15:27

These are old arguments. As long as the DA office refuse to prosecute business owners, whichever way you do it is pointless. Whether it's a check point or business place warranted raid, individual like you and I will always cry out privacy infringement or harassment -- NONE works obviously. And don't get me started on how the Social Security Admin is tight lip about how much SS benefit they collects on 'fake' and misused SSNs.

There is delicate balance between state security and individual freedom.
E.G.
1. I want the fed to be more aggressive on illegal immigrations, but I am against National ID/Finger Printing!
2. I want strong border patrol, but I hate to be treated like illegals (supposedly equally) whenever I am close to the border!
3. I want strong coast guard, but I dont want to be hailed everytime I go beyond few miles off shore for deep sea fishing!

Why in the hell border patrol wants to have a check point miles and miles within the border while they cannot even secure the damn border itself is beyond me though.

jackmode9316

05-18-2009, 15:29

I've been thinking about police dogs lately. It seems to me that it'd be pretty easy to train a dog to bark at a car with a code word. Then, you could search whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted.
I dont think the actual cops assigned to the dogs are the ones who train them though. But I see what you mean.

GunTroll

05-18-2009, 15:38

I've met two police dogs. Great at there work they were!

Irving

05-18-2009, 15:42

For the record, I don't actually believe people train police dogs to bark at cars on command, but it wouldn't be difficult. It likely WOULD be a waste of time though. I think that most cops, even the ones who are the biggest assholes in the world, are a million times more interested in busting someone who is actually running drugs, than they are in ruining joe schmoe's day.

ChunkyMonkey

05-18-2009, 15:44

I would subpoena that dog and show the court hundred other things that the dog will bark at! That's such a lame excuse for them to infringe upon your right.

Irving

05-18-2009, 16:49

Sick and tired of the "well they work for the government, so they must have done something wrong, and they are all out to get you" logic applied to EVERYTHING.

I'm glad you brought this up, as I was just thinking about this the other. If people think that just because someone is a government employee, that they are insiders on some power grabbing plan, they are sadly mistaken.

That is why spending so much time on line is dangerous. It's too easy to forget that the people working for the gov are still just clueless people trying to make a living.

Mtn.man

05-18-2009, 18:19

It's too easy to forget that the people working for the gov are still just clueless people trying to make a living.[/quote]

True. so True.. just look at the IRS,, alot of idiots that don't know the law but still,, uhh,, well enforce something...

ChunkyMonkey

05-18-2009, 23:33

True. so True.. just look at the IRS,, alot of idiots that don't know the law but still,, uhh,, well enforce something...

LMAO! that goes the same with all the I_S. Ginsue, your friend IS the smarter one of the two... I always comply when being asked by an LE, some times I do ask for specific reason if the 'request' was very unreasonable. (Got pulled over for speeding..then they ask to pop my trunk. huh?!). Most LEOs treat you with respect as soon as they know you understand your right. Moreover, LEOs don't want to waste your time as much as theirs anyway.

Others might feel there is a need to thump his chest - bah.. I dont have the time... usually I wasted enough time trying to follow the german accented GPS instruction in this damn car.

gnihcraes

05-19-2009, 00:01

just about 3 years ago: My father was returning from a Hog hunting trip in Southern Texas, as he does each year. You have to pass through a checkpoint in texas, usually no problem, as this time was, no issue. Where it became a problem was down by pueblo, State Patrol stopped him because he fit the "profile" of older gent, in run down old truck, coming from the south. The officer stopped him because the license plate was not completely legible. (dirt/mud) Asked him if she could search his vehicle. He was a little puzzled, but agreed to the search, as he had absolutely nothing to hide. Backup troopers arrived and she stripped the truck down to every last piece of dirt... when one of the other troopers told him that he didn't have to agree to the search and they would just go away. He kindly told them that he didn't agree to the search. She had to stop immediately and put everything back in my dads truck. (btw - is usually a pit full of hunting "stuff" and a complete mess) She was pissed. Dad also let them know that Texas had the check point on highway coming up from the south and that it usually wouldn't be necessary for them in colorado to do it again. They were not aware Texas had the checkpoints. So they put everything back in the truck and said have a nice day... off he went back into denver. Just remember, you don't have to consent to the search.

Circuits

05-19-2009, 00:59

Papieren, bitte!

sniper7

05-19-2009, 06:56

Man! I missed this whole thread! All the bickering[ROFL1]

and listening to that guy get tazed just made me LMAO!!!!

Sure, I would question it to, but I wouldn't let them bust my damn windows and taze me. At that point I would just have to prove I have nothing to hide knowing I would only agitate the situation.

We have to have checkpoints within our own borders. Why would we want them in another country where we know they would be severely corrupt? Look at Iraq...the police and military we are training and putting in power were horribly corrupt and we had to weed them out...but I am sure some still remain.

Sucks for this guy, but he basically got it for being a dumbass and not getting out of the car. Maybe he had something to hide...he never said anything about that, what if he was smuggling little boys into the country?

RRD3

05-19-2009, 07:08

When will people learn that LE does not need to have a reason to jack you up.
Your guilty until proven innocent.

That preacher will end up with a good payday though.

GunTroll

05-19-2009, 13:13

I hope he does get paid. Serves the LE right to power trip to that extreme.

jackmode9316

05-19-2009, 13:36

If they had found something they felt was illegal, what could they do besides confiscate the object in question as this is not a legal search (warrant/probable cause).
They would arrest him anyways. It just wouldnt hold up in court at all. Thats how it usually goes anyways. Saying "No" just means you get away with it IN COURT(if you are lucky), it doesn't mean you don't get arrested.

ssf467

05-19-2009, 18:08

Foxtrot you're an IT guy you know little to nothing of K9 it seems by your ramblings. I've conducted many searches with the aid these handlers/dogs and all come from different venues, one common thing they live with their handler and are loyal to them. Wouldn't be hard to fake an alert. Do Cops do this I haven't seen or heard of it. I couldn't count how many false alerts I've seen over the years though.
They don't bark when they "alert", but you knew that.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Hum why do you guys want a police state?

Generally, the very nice K-9 dogs are not trained by any government agency. And no, the places they get them from (at 10's of thousands of dollars a pop) don't train them to bark at cars. They are independently run farms & businesses. If you have an expensive dog like that, you don't waste time filling its head with parlor tricks. Dog only lives for 9-10 years, they have to use their time well. They don't train them to walk on their hind legs either. PS. I host a site for a high end GS farm in TN, I know them quite well.

Oh and wouldn't it would be a little obvious if the dog barked every time the officer said "Rinde". And it would screw with the dogs training. You don't train a drug dog to sit on location when it finds something or whenever you sneeze. And generally, false positives do not serve the dog or handler well, so if he trained him to bark on command, well, some of the cars he barked at would become false positives.

It's like hiring a $600/hr lawyer to fill out a coloring book for you. Stupid idea.

Didn't watch the vid btw, better things to do. The tin foil BS on this site is getting ridiculous. I think there would be more logic used in the heads of some of the people in democratic underground. Sick and tired of the "well they work for the government, so they must have done something wrong, and they are all out to get you" logic applied to EVERYTHING.

RRD3

05-19-2009, 18:54

Foxtrot you're an IT guy you know little to nothing of K9 it seems by your ramblings. I've conducted many searches with the aid these handlers/dogs and all come from different venues, one common thing they live with their handler and are loyal to them. Wouldn't be hard to fake an alert. Do Cops do this I haven't seen or heard of it. I couldn't count how many false alerts I've seen over the years though.
They don't bark when they "alert", but you knew that.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Hum why do you guys want a police state?

Here's one for ya.

Fort Worth Texas. About 20 minutes to midnight. I was pulled over doing 59 in a 55. All lights in working order, licensed and tagged, driving straight and no moving violations.

A Ft. Worth cop pulls me over. I'm very polite and hand him my insurance and registration he asked for. He goes back to his car and runs my info. He comes back and ask me to step out of the car. I do so and ask if there is a problem. He tells me "not yet" and walks up to my car while at the same time he tells me to stay there. He does not ask to search my car, there is nothing that should raise is suspension of anything. He starts looking in my car... not looking in the window, but opened the door and started looking around. I ask him what he's doing and why he's going through my vehicle.

To make a long story short, he calls for backup and I was arrested to interfering with the officer. The officer finds nothing. The charges were later dropped and I was released with out bond. This arrest is not on my record and nothing came out of it at all.

Not sure if he was just having a bad day or just an ass hole, but either way they can do what ever they want when they want and make shit up as they go along.

I'm not saying that all cops are like this or that this happens all the time. I can say that this happened to me for no apparent reason.

ChunkyMonkey

05-19-2009, 19:29

The longer this thread goes, the more it sounds like a class warfare instead of Fascist America, or any other tin foil thinking.

You dont hear about a CEO/Lawyer/etc got searched top from bottom and deprived of his right. Cops do stereotype as most normal human beings. You drive a pinto in a nice neighborhood, you will get some hassle.. you drive a caddy riding on 22" in shitty neighborhood, you will get hassled! Same goes with if you gave LEO funny look, you didn't stand right, you smelled funny, you were pointing a video cam at the cops the whole time you were being detained..etc

I speed all the time, always have a piece in the car, and typically have bunch of ammo, etc in the trunk. Never once had any issue! Got plenty of tickets... never got searched or asked for it either - So perhaps I don't truly understand the 'big deal' out of this. [Tooth]

Just like in the open carry thread, my thought is if you dress like a bump and open carry - expect trouble! You drive a beat up truck w/ gun rack on the back window going through suburbia America, expect to get pulled over. In both cases you are completely within your right.. You are just not too smart if you expect not to attract attention.

GunTroll

05-19-2009, 19:50

.... You drive a beat up truck w/ gun rack on the back window going through suburbia America, expect to get pulled over. In both cases you are completely within your right.. You are just not too smart if you expect not to attract attention.

I love looking like what I am. And I don't take offense for being a redneck. I'm better fit to live in the country but untill then I'm not changing who I am for a cop that is out to get me because I look "funny" F@q him if thats his mission in life. One day someone will show him.

Tristan

05-19-2009, 20:19

[Help]This whole thread has just gotten too silly for me.
The preacher will lose. The laws are the way they are. There are good cops, there are bad cops. And there apparently is an awful lot of opinions.
Preachers rights were not violated. The dog gave them probable cause. Period. If anybody thinks different, then they simply don't know the law.
If anybody here thinks that the fourth amendment is that simple, then you don't have a clue.
If you think being an LEO is so simple, again, you don't have a clue.
Sure, a dog could be trained anyway you want. But really, now.......get a grip.
All this is like saying because one black guy raped a white girl that all black men are rapists and cannot be trusted. Or like saying because one mexican has a joint that all mexicans are drug dealers. Blah-blah-blah.
Again, Mr. ssf467 or whatever, the constitution you speak of died with JFK. Come back down to earth. This is the 21st century and things are the way they are. If you actively fight crime and corruption, then good for you. I would call you a man and be proud to be your friend. If all you do is bitch about it, then I guess that makes you nothing more than a............ Everybody has the right to voice opinions (whether they're right or wrong, lol) and to vent. But this thread has become exactly what it was crying about in the first place. Some here are now categorizing and profiling others, then in the same paragraph cry about others doing it to them. Hypocritical.[ROFL3]
And long live us God-fearing HETEROSEXUAL gun-toting long haired country boys.

GunTroll

05-19-2009, 20:30

.....
And long live us God-fearing HETEROSEXUAL gun-toting long haired country boys.

Best part of your whole post.

Tristan

05-19-2009, 20:37

[Beer]
Damn, forgot the gun rack bit, though. I have one in every vehicle 'cept for the convertible. And only because my wife won't let me put one in there....
So let me rephrase:
And long live us God-fearing HETEROSEXUAL gun-toting long haired country boys with gun racks in their pickup trucks.

GunTroll

05-19-2009, 20:40

[Beer]

ChunkyMonkey

05-19-2009, 21:25

No one is against the God-fearing HETEROSEXUAL gun-toting long haired country boys with gun racks in their pickup trucks if you read the post correctly. [Coffee] [Beer]

GunTroll

05-20-2009, 00:46

No one is against the God-fearing HETEROSEXUAL gun-toting long haired country boys with gun racks in their pickup trucks if you read the post correctly. [Coffee] [Beer]

Someone is haten on us somewhere.

I got a new acronym.....GFHGTLHCBWGRITPT. Little hard to remember though.

Tristan

05-20-2009, 07:36

No one is against the God-fearing HETEROSEXUAL gun-toting long haired country boys with gun racks in their pickup trucks if you read the post correctly. [Coffee] [Beer]

I know. I am not that ignorant, thank you. :)
I was just saying and making fun. :)

It's all real simple, regardless of any of our own personal convictions;

1. Fellow pulls in to a checkpoint.
2. Dog marks his vehicle
3. Police ask man to exit said vehicle
4. Man refuses and gets somewhat belligerent
5. Man gets whupped and arrested
6. No shit
EOS
Well, as an afterthought, I'm pretty sure the "God hating fag loving tree hugging gun grabbing liberal fucks" are against us, lol. I can't remember who on this board said that, but I didn't forget it!

GunTroll; I believe my favorite acronym came from Hercule Poirot; LOPUSSF-lover of peace until someone starts a fight.[Beer]