Riots, looting, gunfire and chaos near Ferguson, Missouri

[ChunkyMonkey]

http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage-001/Reports-Ferguson-protests-turn-violent-270697451.html


Ferguson, Missouri (KMOV.com) – What started as a peaceful prayer vigil Saturday evening to remember a young man gunned down by police (http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Heavy-police-presence--270609091.html), has escalated into full scale riots and looting in Ferguson, Missouri.Angry mobs have smashed windows, set fires and looted businesses as a massive showing of police, some wearing riot gear have moved into the area along West Florissant just south of 270.
Police are also responding to reports of shootings throughout the area. At one point, windows of a News 4 live truck were smashed out by the angry crowd.

Watch the video on the link. Stay safe everyone!

[Great-Kazoo]

My thread was deleted. But you haven't mentioned race. Or took issue with another poster.. So i understand why it went bye, bye

People wonder why there's no business that want to open, in some areas. This incident is one of many examples.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I was wondering why this news hasn't been posted. I hope mods are ok. Let's keep it clean

[wctriumph]

I have never really understood why protests of government misdeeds leads to the looting and destruction of local community private businesses and property. WTF is wrong with people? Is it their upbringing? Is it that they see themselves as some sort of victim of the community where they live so they feel entitled to just destroy and loot? It just boggles the mind that people will take out their frustrations and anger on those that are innocent of the transgression that created the issue in the first place.

[BushMasterBoy]

A Ferguson city police officer shot an unarmed teenager. According to multiple witnesses the teen had his hands in the air...

[Great-Kazoo]

A Ferguson city police officer shot an unarmed teenager. According to multiple witnesses the teen had his hands in the air...

Let the called for FBI investigation happen. My question, what gives any one the right to burn your own neighborhood down? How does a protest / remembrance for this kid equate , better yet justify, one robbing, destruction of neighbors property.. Yo dog, brother was gunned down, let's Robb Mr. JENKINS appliance store. That's respecting the dead and their family.

[Gman]

It was an alternative shopping opportunity. Yeah, punish those business owners for what the police....hang on a minute...

[Singlestack]

People wonder why there's no business that want to open, in some areas. This incident is one of many examples.

Yup - hard enough for businesses with high taxes and intrusive regulation. Insurance costs rising, and vandalism is just one more thing to worry about.

[brokenscout]

I grew up in ST.Louis, let it burn.

[brokenscout]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteNCOXxWPY

[speedysst]

The pattern repeats itself, repeats itself, repeats itself. Kid gets shot. Witness say he was not doing anything, had his hands up and was saying "Im innocent." Mother says he was a good boy. Investigation reveals a different story. Repeat.

[Bailey Guns]

A Ferguson city police officer shot an unarmed teenager. According to multiple witnesses the teen had his hands in the air...

Yep...an "unarmed teenager", or an 18 year old man (if you're not trying to elicit an emotional response in order to incite hatred of the police), who attacked the officer as he was getting out of his car and continued the attack inside the car.

Sure...why not just call him "a good boy" who would "never hurt no one"? That doesn't fit the "bash the police" agenda?

I don't know if the shooting was justified or not, personally. But either way it in no way justifies what these people, who happen to be mostly black, are doing to the town and local businesses. Yet once again the mouthpieces for the NAACP will blame everyone with the exception of those responsible. They're loudly lamenting the shooting of Brown, a young black man, by the police...but conveniently forget to mention that Brown attacked an officer. And it seems the young black men who shoot other young black men all over the country over drugs or turf don't seem to matter to them. Perpetuate the victim mentality at all costs. Otherwise lose the Black Victimhood Kingdom and all the wealth that goes with it.

[sportbikeco]

Kid was in altercation with police office who was in his car, allegedly trying to get ahold of the officers weapon. Was shot after he failed to get said weapon, in the back. Or so I've read...

[davsel]

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/dellwood-7.jpg?w=640

IWB

[Bailey Guns]

Looting, burglarizing, rioting and burning businesses will get these folks some justice. They're "entitled" to justice...among other things.

[roberth]

Welcome to the future.

[wctriumph]

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/dellwood-7.jpg?w=640

IWB

Tough guy showing off his prison fashion sense, HTF did this guy get a gun? Something tells me that he can't pass a BGC.

[Bailey Guns]

He gots to have sumpin' to defend hisself from Five O.

[davsel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfy5FiqzWHI

Sizzurp anyone?

[stoner01]

I'm just waiting for it to happen here

[ZERO THEORY]

I have never really understood why protests of government misdeeds leads to the looting and destruction of local community private businesses and property.

That's always been curious to me, as well. But as I mentioned in the other thread, when people are despondent, enraged, or feel that some tragedy has befallen them, critical thinking skills tend to fly right out the window.

[stoner01]

It's the anonymity of the while situation.

[sniper7]

These individuals obviously didn't get the outcome they wanted, so they felt entitled to take what they wanted as reparations. Foot locker is now starting a program called obamashoes so underprivledged individuals can receive free high dollar shoes. Better get signed up quick!

[Great-Kazoo]

That's always been curious to me, as well. But as I mentioned in the other thread, when people are despondent, enraged, or feel that some tragedy has befallen them, critical thinking skills tend to fly right out the window.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3__NN16uoXk&list=RD3__NN16uoXk

[BushMasterBoy]

I bet a grand jury finds a true bill on this incident. Up in the air what a jury will say. Summary execution for having assaulted a police officer is a extreme punishment. Allegedly the police have videos taken by witnesses, if it matches what the witness's say happened, there will be more outrage. Just my opinion...

[Bailey Guns]

I bet a grand jury finds a true bill on this incident. Up in the air what a jury will say. Summary execution for having assaulted a police officer is a extreme punishment. Allegedly the police have videos taken by witnesses, if it matches what the witness's say happened, there will be more outrage. Just my opinion...

I'm willing to let the police or other investigating agencies and a grand jury do their thing. And, yes, if was a simple assault summary execution would be extreme....we don't know that's the case here. But at a minimum this kid bears some responsibility for the outcome for assaulting the officer and most likely trying to disarm him in the first place. There's no excuse for that and it's the whole "play stupid games" things. Either way nothing that's happened justifies the response of the human trash that's looting, burglarizing and terrorizing a city.

[ZERO THEORY]

Does anyone have more in-depth details about the assault, or are we waiting on the trail at this point? All I can find is a brief mention that he attacked the officer, and then it's summaries of the looting.

[Bailey Guns]

From the accounts I've read which have come from the police press conference: Brown and another man were walking along the street. The officer stopped and began to get out of his car. Brown attacked the officer and shoved him back in the car and the struggle continued. There may have been one shot fired inside the car during the initial struggle. Brown disengaged and began walking away. The officer got out of his car and confronted Brown again about 35 feet from the patrol car. The officer shot Brown. There are very few details about the actual shooting sequence and any words exchanged by the the officer and/or Brown. Some witnesses say Brown had his hands in the air. The police and witnesses are saying Brown was shot by the officer several times.

[vossman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteNCOXxWPY


Well then, they all gon have nice hair now. Way to rob a hair supply place... Sheesh.

[sellersm]

Anonymous has joined the fray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75WkEZK_f6g

Here's the text of the audio above: http://beforeitsnews.com/protests-demonstrations/2014/08/this-is-your-first-and-last-warning-anonymous-operation-ferguson-2454398.html


Greetings world, we are Anonymous
On August 9th in Ferguson, Missouri the 17 year old and unarmed Mike Brown was shot several times and killed by an officer of the Ferguson Police Department. His body was left to lie in a pool of blood in the sweltering heat for hours while 15 police departments militarized the area against protesters, sealed the roads leading to Ferguson in a vain attempt to prevent protesters from reaching the city. The police has clearly crossed a line in the sand.

For this reason Anonymous will not be satisfied this time, as we have in the past – with simply obtaining justice for this young man and his family. Anonymous demands that the Congressional Representatives and Senators from Missouri introduce legislation entitled “Mike Brown’s Law” that will set strict national standards for police conduct and misbehaviour in the USA.

To the good people of Ferguson, take heart – and take your streets. You are not alone, we will support you in every way possible. Occupy every square inch of your city. Demand justice, staying silent today could result in the death of your kid tomorrow.

To the Ferguson Police Department and any other jurisdictions who are deployed to the protests: we are watching you very closely. If you abuse, harass – or harm in any way the protesters in Ferguson we will take every web based asset of your departments and governments off line. That is not a threat, it is a promise. Attacking the protesters will result in the release of personal information on every single member of the Ferguson Police Department, as well as any other jurisdiction that participates in the abuse of this States own law. We will seize all your databases and E-Mail spools and dump them on the Internet. This is your first and last warning.

The time has come for more than simple justice for these atrocities. The time has come to draw a line in the sand. The time has come to bring those to justice, who served to protect us, not kill us.

Until justice prevails, hack and protest will replace it.

Operation Ferguson engaged.

We Are Anonymous.
We Are Legion.
We do Not Forgive.
We do Not Forget.
Ferguson, Expect us.

The group has already shown they have the capabilty of doing exactly as they state as reports coming out showing the City of Ferguson website was hacked on Sunday night (http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://www.kmov.com/news/editors-pick/Anonymous-says-they-will-launch-cyber-attacks-against-Ferguson-PD-270706191.html).

[Dave_L]

Riots? In today's great society? Never.

No need for 30 rounders. Nope.

[J]

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/dellwood-7.jpg?w=640

IWB

Is the mag well empty? Kinda looks like it.

[BushMasterBoy]

Some posts were deleted in this thread. Was it by the poster or the mods?

[ZERO THEORY]

From the accounts I've read which have come from the police press conference: Brown and another man were walking along the street. The officer stopped and began to get out of his car. Brown attacked the officer and shoved him back in the car and the struggle continued. There may have been one shot fired inside the car during the initial struggle. Brown disengaged and began walking away. The officer got out of his car and confronted Brown again about 35 feet from the patrol car. The officer shot Brown. There are very few details about the actual shooting sequence and any words exchanged by the the officer and/or Brown. Some witnesses say Brown had his hands in the air. The police and witnesses are saying Brown was shot by the officer several times.

Did they discuss why Brown attacked the officer? Have they released a toxicology report?


Riots? In today's great society? Never.

No need for 30 rounders. Nope.

If someone starts to loot your business/home, just stick your shotgun out the door and fire off a warning shot. That oughta do it.

[BPTactical]

If someone starts to loot your business/home, just stick your shotgun out the door and fire off a warning shot. That oughta do it.

No need to open the door, just let em fly....
Or step out on the balcony and let er rip.....


Hey, Uncle Joe said so.

[Dave_L]

Or just let them loot. Looting only lasts several hours, death is forever.

[Great-Kazoo]

Anonymous has joined the fray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75WkEZK_f6g

Here's the text of the audio above: http://beforeitsnews.com/protests-demonstrations/2014/08/this-is-your-first-and-last-warning-anonymous-operation-ferguson-2454398.html

[theGinsue]

Tough guy showing off his prison fashion sense, HTF did this guy get a gun? Something tells me that he can't pass a BGC.
For what it's worth, I lived 20 miles east of St. Louis for 10 years and knew that a 19 miles drive, 1 hour of my time, and $50-$100 could get me at least 1 handgun.

Anonymous has joined the fray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75WkEZK_f6g

Here's the text of the audio above: http://beforeitsnews.com/protests-demonstrations/2014/08/this-is-your-first-and-last-warning-anonymous-operation-ferguson-2454398.html
Reading the text of that "Anonymous" post, I have doubts it was actually anonymous that made it. The grammer is poorly educated inner-city versus the usual well spoken Anonymous vernacular.

I find this statement particularly ignorant:

Anonymous demands that the Congressional Representatives and Senators from Missouri introduce legislation entitled “Mike Brown’s Law” that will set strict national standards for police conduct and misbehaviour in the USA.

Yeah, that has a lot of hope of getting any traction. aside fron the fact that there are standards (albeit not NATIONAL that I'm aware of) for law enforcement personnel, maybe, just maybe - AFTER an investigation, IF the Officer is found to have acted inappropriately, then this could be considered.


If you abuse, harass – or harm in any way the protesters in Ferguson we will take every web based asset of your departments and governments off line. That is not a threat, it is a promise. Attacking the protesters will result in the release of personal information on every single member of the Ferguson Police Department, as well as any other jurisdiction that participates in the abuse of this States own law. We will seize all your databases and E-Mail spools and dump them on the Internet. This is your first and last warning.

They had better already have these things captured and read to go if they plan on doing this level of stuff after giving these agencies a heads-up (unless said agencies are arrogant enough to believe they aren't vulnerable).

[Great-Kazoo]

With the threats Anonymous is doing. Will they also Demand justice from those fine citizens responsible for looting, robbing, rioting? [ROFL3]

[roberth]

With the threats Anonymous is doing. Will they also Demand justice from those fine citizens responsible for looting, robbing, rioting? [ROFL3]

I'd love to see that, make those thugs pay restitution for their damage.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'd love to see that, make those thugs pay restitution for their damage.

How, with their EBT cards?

[roberth]

How, with their EBT cards?

Exactly, the government will borrow money from FedRes to fill the EBT card, then the miscreant will use the EBT card to pay his debt. Meanwhile the taxpayer is on the hook for the money the government borrowed from FedRes so essentially the working tax payer whose store was looted is paying himself.

OK, game over.

Just shoot those looters, kill them all, open season, no bag limit, keep shooting them until the survivors understand that their behavior won't be tolerated. That is all they'll understand...ever.

[davsel]

Or just let them loot. Looting only lasts several hours, death is forever.

"Let dim tuche dos tangs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTkrUvfcTUc

[jerrymrc]

Some posts were deleted in this thread. Was it by the poster or the mods?

Both. The last thread was doomed and this one is circling the bowl.....

[davsel]

http://i48.tinypic.com/1yv58k.jpg

[sniper7]

Both. The last thread was doomed and this one is circling the bowl.....

Im just glad I'm not forced to watch the turds swirl around! [LOL]

[Bailey Guns]

WTF was she rambling about? Stay away from the tequila, Celine.

[ZERO THEORY]

Exactly, the government will borrow money from FedRes to fill the EBT card, then the miscreant will use the EBT card to pay his debt. Meanwhile the taxpayer is on the hook for the money the government borrowed from FedRes so essentially the working tax payer whose store was looted is paying himself.

OK, game over.

Just shoot those looters, kill them all, open season, no bag limit, keep shooting them until the survivors understand that their behavior won't be tolerated. That is all they'll understand...ever.

http://www.miscupload.com/upload4/147065541974772425155422.gif

[sniper7]

Is that a shot of the kids looting? In one of the videos it said women and children were looting the stores, kids appearing to be around age 10.

[Great-Kazoo]

Is that a shot of the kids looting? In one of the videos it said women and children were looting the stores, kids appearing to be around age 10.

Kids as young as 6 are running point for higher ups. YO, 5-OH.

[HoneyBadger]

I'd love to see that, make those thugs pay restitution for their damage.
LOL what universe do YOU live in?? [ROFL2]

[roberth]

LOL what universe do YOU live in?? [ROFL2]

Yah, no doubt. I was having a utopian moment. [Beer]


The people committing these crimes have not been taught kindness or respect or personal responsibility or right or wrong. They were brought into this world simply because their mother could get more $$ from welfare (our pockets), I'll bet most of them don't know who their sperm donor is. These people are proof that people are not born good, good people are trained to be good by their good parents, these people are animals without a shred of decency. They make me sad to watch what they do, they also make me think about my options when they come to my neighborhood.

[Bailey Guns]

The people committing these crimes have not been taught kindness or respect or personal responsibility or right or wrong. They were brought into this world simply because their mother could get more $$ from welfare (our pockets), I'll bet most of them don't know who their sperm donor is. These people are proof that people are not born good, good people are trained to be good by their good parents, these people are animals without a shred of decency. They make me sad to watch what they do, they also make me think about my options when they come to my neighborhood.

48267

[yz9890]

I just don't see the logical process that leads a person to react to a perceived injustice by looting and burning his own community.

[brutal]

IBTL



Sent from my subconscious mind.

[roberth]

I just don't see the logical process that leads a person to react to a perceived injustice by looting and burning his own community.

Go ask their teacher, I'm sure the both parties are models of behavior and civility.

[jerrymrc]

I just don't see the logical process that leads a person to react to a perceived injustice by looting and burning his own community.

Kind of like many places in the middle east.[Beer]

[jerrymrc]

IBTL



Sent from my subconscious mind.

Have not gone to bed yet.[LOL]

[ZERO THEORY]

Is that a shot of the kids looting? In one of the videos it said women and children were looting the stores, kids appearing to be around age 10.

Not sure if srs...

[sniper7]

Not sure if srs...


Ill leave you in suspense

[Great-Kazoo]

I just don't see the logical process that leads a person to react to a perceived injustice by looting and burning his own community.

You never live in a dense urban area, before. Denver , Co Spgs, or Parker do not count. We lived south of 1 of the ghetto's out east. Needed to cross through the intersection where the Bar, Soc. Sec, after hrs joint, deli (before they became bodega's) and large parking lot where the locals congregated. Legal or not some folks may or may not have been armed, passing through.

It became so bad community leaders, felt plowing down that area would be in the best interest of everyone. All it did was move folks 100' off the main drag, in to the streets.

[buffalobo]

The ills of society appear to be concentrated/highlighted in direct proportion to population density.

Primary reason I live in the sticks. I cannot remember the last time one of my neighbors even annoyed me.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Kind of like many places in the middle east.[Beer]

To be fair, I think they learned it from us. The freaking Detroit riots showed the world how to engage in riotous destruction and get the victims to apologize and pay for the damages.

[yz9890]

You never live in a dense urban area, before. Denver , Co Spgs, or Parker do not count. We lived south of 1 of the ghetto's out east. Needed to cross through the intersection where the Bar, Soc. Sec, after hrs joint, deli (before they became bodega's) and large parking lot where the locals congregated. Legal or not some folks may or may not have been armed, passing through.

It became so bad community leaders, felt plowing down that area would be in the best interest of everyone. All it did was move folks 100' off the main drag, in to the streets.

I've lived in LA and Chicago and have seen the mentality first hand as well. I just don't understand it.

[Bailey Guns]

The ills of society appear to be concentrated/highlighted in direct proportion to population density.

Primary reason I live in the sticks. I cannot remember the last time one of my neighbors even annoyed me.

Neighbors?

[TFOGGER]

Neighbors?

the folks that live a mile down the road, that you say hi to at the cafe in town...

[Bailey Guns]

^^ Oh...those folks sitting at the table next to me at the cafe. Got it!

[Coffee]

[buffalobo]

the folks that live a mile down the road, that you say hi to at the cafe in town...
Every other week or so. You know, the ones you can barely hear when they are out shooting in the yard.

lobbed from my electronic ball and chain

[ChunkyMonkey]

I have been waiting for the response. The new DHS Army showed up last night. MRAPs, full gear, etc. Hope everyone is safe there!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/11/surreal-video-images-out-of-ferguson-as-unrest-resumes-following-shooting-of-unarmed-teenager-i-cant-believe-this-is-happening/

[bchase75]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...saw it in my fb feed this morning.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/ferguson_riots_north_county_business_owners_some_a rmed_survey_the_damage.php

[stoner01]

Can you imagine if it turned out like the Korean shop owners during the 92 riots

[Great-Kazoo]

Can you imagine if it turned out like the Korean shop owners during the 92 riots

Ferguson doesn't have any Koreans or other asians living there. Their shops are outside the ferguson bus route.

[Great-Kazoo]

I have been waiting for the response. The new DHS Army showed up last night. MRAPs, full gear, etc. Hope everyone is safe there!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/11/surreal-video-images-out-of-ferguson-as-unrest-resumes-following-shooting-of-unarmed-teenager-i-cant-believe-this-is-happening/


At least 5 gunshots heard from #Ferguson (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Ferguson) neighborhood. People trapped here scatter and take cover. "Where are we supposed to hide?" one says

My guess would be off the streets, sitting home with gun in hand protecting your own. This mob mentality has no boundaries when it comes to destroying other peoples property.

[stoner01]

Ferguson doesn't have any Koreans or other asians living there. Their shops are outside the ferguson bus route.

Just meant shop owners shoot/ at looters.

[Great-Kazoo]

Just meant shop owners shoot/ at looters.

I know, omitted the sarcasm icon.

[stoner01]

Gotcha

[ChunkyMonkey]

Can you imagine if it turned out like the Korean shop owners during the 92 riots

Nowadays, the authority will not tolerate armed business/home owners defending their own properties. How many legal guns were confiscated during and after Katrina again?

[Great-Kazoo]

Nowadays, the authority will not tolerate armed business/home owners defending their own properties. How many legal guns were confiscated during and after Katrina again?

Every one was too many.

[Mtn.man]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10608737_483791965090913_248880845672357102_o.jpg

[HoneyBadger]

[Awesom]

[Great-Kazoo]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10608737_483791965090913_248880845672357102_o.jpg

85lbs or quiet love, in transit.

[hollohas]

Interesting pictures here.

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8

[ZERO THEORY]

Interesting pictures here.

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8

Man, I sure feel safer having the police armed with more ordnance and weaponry than a fucking infantry platoon.

[jerrymrc]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10608737_483791965090913_248880845672357102_o.jpg

A STG58 with that crap hanging off of it. Frigging thing weighs 20lbs.[Puke]

[BPTactical]

A STG58 with that crap hanging off of it. Frigging thing weighs 20lbs.[Puke]

Grown particular have ya??
FAL Whore[Coffee]

[Great-Kazoo]

Man, I sure feel safer having the police armed with more ordnance and weaponry than a fucking infantry platoon.
Someone's shooting my direction i want as much protection as possible. Back in the mid 70's the NYFD was forced to put steel cages over their ladder trucks and cabs. Inner cities, ok the ghetto were calling in alarms. As trucks arrived on scene, cinder blocks, metal pipes, tv's etc were dropped on them. The occasional pot shot, too. Do i have some concern about them geared up, sure. In a volatile situation like this, not a problem

Protesters have looted and torched a gas station, and shots were fired at police, according (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/08/12/why-the-police-shooting-riots-in-ferguson-mo-had-little-to-do-with-ferguson/) to The Washington Post.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8#ixzz3AEsncUty

[Gman]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[stoner01]

I actually do question why police depts are getting surplus MRAPs. They were designed for a purpose that didn't include urban policing. Just my $.02

[brutal]

I actually do question why police depts are getting surplus MRAPs. They were designed for a purpose that didn't include urban policing. Just my $.02

Because they can get them (mostly) free and a Bearcat costs them $300k.

[davsel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
I don't understand the surprised attitudes.
He's done just what he said he would do. Again and again.

[theGinsue]

I don't understand the surprised attitudes.
He's done just what he said he would do. Again and again.
Yes he has. Sadly, most people either didn't believe him, or bought into the talking heads misdirection about what he meant.

Oh, and folks, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

[BushMasterBoy]

A "civilian national security force" so powerful it can do a mag dump on a kid in the street and get away with it? Not naming the officer and not releasing the autopsy results? Maybe Obama wants massive civil unrest so he can suspend the Constitution? 2021 AND OBAMA STILL IN OFFICE? This whole episode is reminding me of that movie "V". Starts off with a cop killing a teenager...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_(film)

[Great-Kazoo]

Yes he has. Sadly, most people either didn't believe him, or bought into the talking heads misdirection about what he meant.

Oh, and folks, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

No we have not.
Wait till OFA gets deputized , so they can clean up the militarized mess made in Missouri. Outreach programs, New sheets for the mlotov's, shops rebuilt with stronger shelving, so anyone can climb up top w/out getting hurt. Empowerment seminars, PREACH IT BROTHER. PREACH IT.

[Great-Kazoo]

A "civilian national security force" so powerful it can do a mag dump on a kid in the street and get away with it? Not naming the officer and not releasing the autopsy results? Maybe Obama wants massive civil unrest so he can suspend the Constitution? 2021 AND OBAMA STILL IN OFFICE? This whole episode is reminding me of that movie "V". Starts off with a cop killing a teenager...

They release the officers name and a lynch party would be there before the ink dried. NBPP will have a convoy of the locals rope in hand, singing songs of freedom. You think some of the local PD would stand by and allow anything to happen, think again.
I strongly disagree with releasing any info till the FBI finishes it's investigation.

[BushMasterBoy]

You mean the "FBI" won't have him in protective custody? Major screw up right there. And if you don't think the local community has no clue of the officers identity, that is plainly naive. I bet it is leaked in a week...

[Great-Kazoo]

You mean the "FBI" won't have him in protective custody? Major screw up right there. And if you don't think the local community has no clue of the officers identity, that is plainly naive. I bet it is leaked in a week...


So if I read your replies correctly. You're a supporter of the local citizenry, and their actions?

Or against the LE?

[BushMasterBoy]

So if I read your replies correctly. You're a supporter of the local citizenry, and their actions?

Or against the LE?

I am a supporter of the truth. I want to know if the cop executed the kid. I want to know the autopsy results. I want to know about the officer that fired his weapon. It is NOT about me, it is about the truth. It seems to me that some forum members seem to be of the opinion that the deceased deserved what happened to him. What are they hiding by not releasing the autopsy results? If the officer had not killed this Michael Brown there would be no riots. I want to know more about Michael Brown. If the truth comes out that Michael Brown had a weapon, so be it. But if the officer was angry that Michael Brown resisted his order "to get the fuck on the sidewalk" and shot him I want to know.

The other thing I'm saying is that if the threats are credible, then get the professionals to protect the officer i.e US Marshals. If the Ferguson Police Department can't properly police their community, I seriously doubt they can protect this officer. If this officer is killed, we will never get the truth. Have you actually read any of the details coming out in this case? There are other witnesses.

[GilpinGuy]

[Pop]
IBTL. This will end soon.

[Great-Kazoo]

I am a supporter of the truth. I want to know if the cop executed the kid. I want to know the autopsy results. I want to know about the officer that fired his weapon. It is NOT about me, it is about the truth. It seems to me that some forum members seem to be of the opinion that the deceased deserved what happened to him. What are they hiding by not releasing the autopsy results? If the officer had not killed this Michael Brown there would be no riots. I want to know more about Michael Brown. If the truth comes out that Michael Brown had a weapon, so be it. But if the officer was angry that Michael Brown resisted his order "to get the fuck on the sidewalk" and shot him I want to know.

The other thing I'm saying is that if the threats are credible, then get the professionals to protect the officer i.e US Marshals. If the Ferguson Police Department can't properly police their community, I seriously doubt they can protect this officer. If this officer is killed, we will never get the truth. Have you actually read any of the details coming out in this case? There are other witnesses.

Witness for both sides. If rushed the FBI investigation should run 2- 3 weeks,tops. The cop shot an unarmed [I find executed to be tainting your argument] male adult., If you believe the people. If you stepped back and not look at this with the hatred you're projecting, in to your post. You would realize, till the smoke clears, no one knows the truth. Except the cop and dead guy.
Your use of executed shows me, as I am sure others, you believe this cop fired multiple rounds in to this child ( adult) gunning him down in cold blood. You have him tried and slated for death row. Not sure why you're so biased, against LE.
If this cop did shot a man who was surrendering, he deserves the stiffest penalty, under law. The world strung Zimmerman up , before his trial. Same thing happening here.

[BushMasterBoy]

The only thing about this case I hate is that it has the appearance of a cover up. Why no autopsy results? Just answer that one question! Autopsy is complete.
And all this "hate LE" is nonsense. So stop the nonsense.

[Kmanbay]

Some part of the autopsy reports can come about pretty quickly, toxicology reports sometime take weeks. Even Robin Williams toxicology screens are several weeks out, and you know they want that info ASAP.

There should never be a rush to "justice", cooler heads, a thoughtful and due process is the only way it can happen. Emotions should be tempered with wisdom and especially the facts, not the blazing fires the media propagates.

[BuffCyclist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
I don't understand the surprised attitudes.
He's done just what he said he would do. Again and again.

Wait, isn't a civilian national security force exactly what the 2nd amendment discuses: "A well regulated militia..."

[BuffCyclist]

The only thing about this case I hate is that it has the appearance of a cover up. Why no autopsy results? Just answer that one question! Autopsy is complete.
And all this "hate LE" is nonsense. So stop the nonsense.

What do you expect to glean from the autopsy report? That he died of cyanide poisoning? [Dunno]

No, he most likely died of a gunshot wound. If it's one shot or five shots, does it matter? In every CCW class, they teach to shoot until the THREAT is eliminated, not shoot until the threat is DEAD! If the cop shot the perp once, he fell back in shock and then attacked the cop again, I'm pretty sure that any cop/person would shoot again TO STOP THE THREAT!

[Bailey Guns]

An autopsy report isn't simply for determining cause of death. The report can tell you tons about the circumstances surrounding the death...even when you know what actually caused it.

[TFOGGER]

Here we go again...some more...ad infinitum...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/lapd-shoot-kill-ezell-ford_n_5674679.html?utm_hp_ref=los-angeles&ir=Los+Angeles


The Los Angeles Police Department shot and killed a black man in South L.A. on Monday.
Police conducted an "investigative stop" in the Newton area around 8:20 p.m., according to a news release from the LAPD. "During the stop a struggle ensued, which resulted in an officer-involved-shooting (http://www.lapdonline.org/newsroom/news_view/56791). It is unknown if the suspect has any gang affiliations," the release continues. "The suspect was transported to a local hospital and after lifesaving efforts he succumbed to his injuries."
A woman claiming to be the deceased man's mother called KTLA and identified the man as Ezell Ford. Tritobia Ford said her son was lying on the ground and complying with the officers when he was shot three times (http://ktla.com/2014/08/12/man-hospitalized-after-being-shot-by-police-in-south-l-a/).



My question: What does the liberal media have to gain by inciting unrest?

[Great-Kazoo]

The only thing about this case I hate is that it has the appearance of a cover up. Why no autopsy results? Just answer that one question! Autopsy is complete.
And all this "hate LE" is nonsense. So stop the nonsense.

Answer my questions. Don't be evasive. Yes or no. You made statements, support this sentence . I want to know if the cop executed the kid.
My brothers autopsy took 2 weeks before a basic answer was published. 1 year for the Complete, Official one to make it to the public's eye.

Saying STOP THE NONSENSE. Carries no weight with me, till you clarify yourself. Again you seem to be standing lockstep with the rioters in Ferguson. Unable to wait for actual answers. BUT DEMAND JUSTICE NOW. [facepalm]

[Great-Kazoo]

Here we go again...some more...ad infinitum...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/lapd-shoot-kill-ezell-ford_n_5674679.html?utm_hp_ref=los-angeles&ir=Los+Angeles




My question: What does the liberal media have to gain by inciting unrest?

Subscribers, support for a progressive agenda, where Obama, Holder, Sharpton and others were proven right. America still harbors racist views and hatred for people of color.

That shit is 1-2 generations ago. Whats that groups name? Perhaps the left should realize it's time to, MOVE ON

[roberth]

Subscribers, support for a progressive agenda, where Obama, Holder, Sharpton and others were proven right. America still harbors racist views and hatred for people of color.

That shit is 1-2 generations ago. Whats that groups name? Perhaps the left should realize it's time to, MOVE ON

These rioters are the "useful idiots" Lenin spoke about, just like everyone who voted for this progressive (communist) agenda and Obama.

The Feds will use this incident to usurp more of our constitutional rights, plus they didn't get to play with their toys at the Bundy ranch so this might be another opportunity. The longer the media can foment the situation the greater chance of armed federal involvement.

[Irving]

Seems like it's possible to not take sides as both the officer, and the rioters can be in the wrong at the same time.

[cstone]

I would like to see the Missouri State Patrol and DPS tell the Feebies and DOJ to take a number and have a seat. "We will be with you after we have taken care of our lawfully mandated responsibilities of restoring order and investigating crimes in our state."

IMO, there is too much over reach by the federal government and too much reliance by state and local officials on feds to take responsibility for local matters.

I will continue watching the Al Sharpton and Benjamin Crump traveling road show. [facepalm]

[PugnacAutMortem]

Seems like it's possible to not take sides as both the officer, and the rioters can be in the wrong at the same time.

My thoughts exactly. Bravo sir.

[stoner01]

I'm sure as shit not taking sides with rioters an looters. From my understanding of the initial encounter, correct me if I'm wrong, is that brown attack the officer as he was getting out of his patrol car. And that during this attack brown attempted to disarm him. Now based on my experience and training, that gives me every justification to shoot you. If you've already made an attempt at my gun and now you're going for round two, I'll shoot you deader than yeterdays news.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm sure as shit not taking sides with rioters an looters. From my understanding of the initial encounter, correct me if I'm wrong, is that brown attack the officer as he was getting out of his patrol car. And that during this attack brown attempted to disarm him. Now based on my experience and training, that gives me every justification to shoot you. If you've already made an attempt at my gun and now you're going for round two, I'll shoot you deader than yeterdays news.

[panic]RACIST [panic]

Once again. Even when the preliminary investigation is released, folks ain't going to be happy. BUT, if the LE did indiscriminately shoot an unarmed adult, Justice must be served.

[DavieD55]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
I don't understand the surprised attitudes.
He's done just what he said he would do. Again and again.


This is how barry and his agenda friends will attempt to get around the Posse-Comitatus Act after the public reacts to one of their manufactured crisis.

LE will continue the transition from peace officers to enforcers of the state and that is exactly what we will have unless people start taking it seriously.

[kidicarus13]

[panic]RACIST [panic]


Careful, that word will get your post deleted.

[Great-Kazoo]

Careful, that word will get your post deleted.

Their board, their rules. If a mod feels the need to delete, so be it. I'm not getting my shorts in a wad over it

[PugnacAutMortem]

If you've already made an attempt at my gun and now you're going for round two, I'll shoot you deader than yeterdays news.

From the accounts that I've read, Brown wasn't "going for round two". He was running away after the 1st shot went off in the struggle. The officer then shot him in the back, and Brown turned around with his hands raised and told the officer he didn't have to shoot anymore because he was unarmed. The officer then shot him multiple more times in the head and chest. I don't think that constitutes "going for round two".

Now on one hand, you could obviously understand the fearfulness the officer was feeling when the shot went off during the struggle. I would imagine he was trying to figure out if he was shot, if Brown was shot, if Brown had a gun and shot him...all kinds of stuff would be running through your head. But on the other hand, does that absolve a man shooting someone in the back running away from him and then shooting him in the face and chest multiple times when it was clear Brown was neither armed nor no longer fleeing/resisting?

I think that's how you can not take either side here.

[hollohas]

So there are two witnesses who are offering their accounts. According to an article on 9News...

One says the officer drove up and told them to get on the sidewalk. Then the officer "opened his door, grabbed Brown around the neck and tried to pull him through the window."

Again, I wasn't there, but this doesn't make sense to me. Pull him through the window with the door closed? Sure, I could maybe believe that. It doesn't make sense to attack someone and pull them on top of you into a confined space, but I suppose it could happen. But with the door open? That doesn't make sense. I could also see how "being pulled through the window" could be confused with Brown attacking through the window.

He says the officer then said "I'll shoot", a shot was fired and both parties let go.

This seems to mesh with the story that a single shot was fired in the car.

Witness #1 says that Brown was then shot in the back once while he retreated. That's when he turned around with his hands up to say don't shoot. It was with his hands up, facing the officer that he was shot multiple more times, according to witness #1.

We already know the final shots were fired some distance from the patrol car. So these accounts seem on the surface to mesh at least a little. However, this doesn't make sense to me either. Who gets shot in the back and then stops running, turns around and surrenders? Especially if they believe the confrontation was an unprovoked attack? If I ever get attacked on the street, get shot in the back as I retreat, I sure as shit am NOT going to stop and put my hands up. I am going to keep my ass running away from the attacker.

Witness #2 says Brown and the officer didn't struggle in the car at all.

So there you go. Multiple witnesses, VERY different accounts. We all expected that and that is exactly why this investigation will take a long time. Accounts of the actual event will have to be pieced together. And in the meantime, I agree 100% to keep the officer's identity sealed. And I hope he moved his family out of town just in case it gets leaked.

[cstone]

Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman were murdered more than 20 years ago. That crime was investigated and lots of evidence was gathered. The primary suspect was arrested and tried in a very public venue. There are still people who disagree about what happened the night of June 12, 1994.

Trayvon Martin was killed more than two years ago. That homicide was investigated and lots of evidence was gathered. The primary suspect was eventually arrested and tried in a very public venue. There are still people who disagree about what happened the night of February 26, 2012.

Don't be surprised after Michael Brown's death has been investigated and any judicial action takes place that people will still disagree about what happened on August 9, 2014. Expecting some type of definitive answers to questions about something that happened just four days ago seems to be a bit naive, but that might just be my bias. I'm patient. I can wait for the truth...when I decide what I believe to be the truth.

Be safe.

[Bailey Guns]

But on the other hand, does that absolve a man shooting someone in the back running away from him and then shooting him in the face and chest multiple times when it was clear Brown was neither armed nor no longer fleeing/resisting?

I think that's how you can not take either side here.

If it's "clear" to you what happened, you are taking sides and you must know something the rest of us don't. I don't think anything surrounding the shooting is clear except the fact Brown is dead.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I think this is why all police officers should have a camera on their person and on their car at all times. Would clear up who's guilty and who's innocent fairly well.

[stoner01]

The problem with body cams is then I have no privacy as the officer

[RCCrawler]

The problem with body cams is then I have no privacy as the officer

When you are on the clock you should have no assumption of privacy, I know I don't at my job.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

They can be logged off for restroom breaks, breaks and lunch.

[stoner01]

I haven't seen the ones that can be logged off yet. I've only seen the shutter activated and I don't like those ones

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I'm sorry I meant to say what if they could be...

[stoner01]

Then I would have no issues with body cams

[clublights]

Do you think having the body cam would change your behavior as on officer? ( not saying you do bad cop stuff.. but like letting someone off of a ticket... more officers discretion type shit ) Knowing that video could be reviewed at any time by a supervisor or IA or some civilian review board ?

[stoner01]

That's why I don't like them.

[clublights]

That's why I don't like them.

double edged sword ?

[centrarchidae]

Do you think having the body cam would change your behavior as on officer? ( not saying you do bad cop stuff.. but like letting someone off of a ticket... more officers discretion type shit ) Knowing that video could be reviewed at any time by a supervisor or IA or some civilian review board ?
It would be the end of breaks. I'm not going to get called in on the carpet about why I gave someone a warning instead of a court date, just so someone else can have a warm fuzzy feeling about my being on camera.

[brutal]

I'm sorry I meant to say what if they could be...

You mean like, with a piece of electrical tape over the lens?

You guys do keep your laptop/web/phone cameras covered right?

[HoneyBadger]

You mean like, with a piece of electrical tape over the lens?

You guys do keep your laptop/web/phone cameras covered right?
Cameras? what cameras? :)

[Irving]

You mean like, with a piece of electrical tape over the lens?

You guys do keep your laptop/web/phone cameras covered right?

Very first thing I did on my work laptop.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

You mean like, with a piece of electrical tape over the lens?

You guys do keep your laptop/web/phone cameras covered right?

Nope. Not worried about it. When I'm in range of my work laptop and phone I'm working.

[stoner01]

It would be the end of breaks. I'm not going to get called in on the carpet about why I gave someone a warning instead of a court date, just so someone else can have a warm fuzzy feeling about my being on camera.

Exactly.

[Irving]

Could make for a lot less paper work if you could just upload each interaction when you're done.

Having a job where I have to document everything, I know that's not really true. Would make for a total pain to do audits and other file reviews.

[clublights]

You mean like, with a piece of electrical tape over the lens?

You guys do keep your laptop/web/phone cameras covered right?


IF someone takes all the time to hack my macbook pro/iphone/ipad.... they can watch me eat cheetos without a shirt on. That'll teach em a lesson.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

IF someone takes all the time to hack my macbook pro/iphone/ipad.... they can watch me eat cheetos without a shirt on. That'll teach em a lesson.

Did Ray hack your account?

[clublights]

Did Ray hack your account?


Ray is not the only orange fingered shooter on the boards...

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/a8/a8117d92832c2987fe658922605ebfa344b255da0023f8677e 5f06eadb9205dc.jpg

[Great-Kazoo]

Ray is not the only orange fingered shooter on the boards...

And you know this how? Honey does that look like lipstick, or cheetos?

[clublights]

WELL this just got weird...... I mean more so then normal .

[stoner01]

Awkward.....

[sniper7]

Who here likes porn?

[stoner01]

Not gonna answer that

[sniper7]

I'll take that as a yes, but in denial.

[stoner01]

Anyways

[Great-Kazoo]

I'll take that as a yes, but in denial.

Did you ever get a refund, from that chicks with dicks website, you bragged about?

[Gman]

My, that escalated quickly.

Sent from my electronic leash.

[Zundfolge]

Can you imagine if it turned out like the Korean shop owners during the 92 riots


Ferguson doesn't have any Koreans or other asians living there. Their shops are outside the ferguson bus route.

Apparently Koreans (from LA?) are offering their services.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html

(screen grab just in case the ad goes away)
48369

[Great-Kazoo]

Apparently Koreans (from LA?) are offering their services.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html

(screen grab just in case the ad goes away)
48369

Take out or delivery OH !

https://sp1.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608043012879943777&pid=15.1&P=0

[sniper7]

Did you ever get a refund, from that chicks with dicks website, you bragged about?

No, you asked me for the store credit so I traded it to you for some 223 brass remember?

[Jamnanc]

Subscribed, this thread is just too good not to check in on. I have a new end of the world plan, it involves some roof Koreans.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I LIKE PORN!!!

[ChunkyMonkey]

Subscribed, this thread is just too good not to check in on. I have a new end of the world plan, it involves some roof Koreans.

Inspect upon delivery. Sometimes they sent out Roof Koran instead. Damn jihadists!

48371

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

No, you asked me for the store credit so I traded it to you for some 223 brass remember?

They say the memory is the first thing to go. Poor kazoo.

[Jamnanc]

Those work too, you just have to make sure and keep them in front of you instead of the other way around.

[Chad4000]

Apparently Koreans (from LA?) are offering their services.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html

(screen grab just in case the ad goes away)
48369


lol.. wow....

[sniper7]

They say the memory is the first thing to go. Poor kazoo.


Such a a shame, he probably is struggling to remember where this thread is at!

[cstone]

And someone just posted the Roof Koreans Craigslist listing to Spike Tactical's FB page.

Now that wouldn't have been anyone from this board would it? [Flower]

[Great-Kazoo]

They say the memory is the first thing to go. Poor kazoo.

That you darlin............

[Great-Kazoo]

Such a a shame, he probably is struggling to remember where this thread is at!

anyone using 335 for 223 loads ? Having pressure issues , what's your OAL?

[sniper7]

I only use HP-38 or Hodgdon triple seven black powder in my 223 loads. You think you've seen pdogs explode...he'll I lay my rifle next to the hole with a string on the trigger, wait till they get on top to look at it and BLAM, vaporized pdog!

[stoner01]

We are talking about rodent vermin and not code for the two legged kind right[Sarcasm2]

[RblDiver]

Back on topic, this is actually rather strange, a news crew gets gassed, then their stuff put down. What would be the reason for this, potentially giving away ops or something?

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html

I mean, I'm generally on the side of the cops in this conflict (waiting to see the outcome of the investigation), but this vid gives definite pause.

[JohnnyDrama]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
I don't understand the surprised attitudes.
He's done just what he said he would do. Again and again.

I don't think "Koreans for hire" is what BHO had in mind.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html

[BushMasterBoy]

Rumor has it that the local police are being removed from policing the City of Ferguson. The governor of Missouri is coming to visit the local area. Supposedly Obama is going to talk about Ferguson, but he seems to be running late. Sounds like federal law enforcement may take over.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-14/st-louis-county-police-to-be-removed-from-ferguson-clay.html

[Zundfolge]

Rumor has it that the local police are being removed from policing the City of Ferguson. The governor of Missouri is coming to visit the local area. Supposedly Obama is going to talk about Ferguson, but he seems to be running late. Sounds like federal law enforcement may take over.

Could be ... My dad told me about how when he was in the Army stationed at Ft Benning in '65 that he and his unit woke up one morning with their uniforms sporting Alabama National Guard patches and they ended up in Selma. And this joker has an even greater penchant for usurping local authority than LBJ did.

[ChunkyMonkey]

And someone just posted the Roof Koreans Craigslist listing to Spike Tactical's FB page.

Now that wouldn't have been anyone from this board would it? [Flower]

Someone weird name dude!

[sellersm]

Back on topic, this is actually rather strange, a news crew gets gassed, then their stuff put down. What would be the reason for this, potentially giving away ops or something?

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html

I mean, I'm generally on the side of the cops in this conflict (waiting to see the outcome of the investigation), but this vid gives definite pause.

And this, the Chief's response after learning that two journalists were arrested? http://www.businessinsider.com/ferguson-police-chief-freaked-after-cops-arrested-reporters-2014-8

To me, the whole thing just stinks: it seems that the response by 'officials' is unwarranted. Looks like they're trying to keep the press out, suppress information/freedoms, etc...

[PugnacAutMortem]

Rumor has it that the local police are being removed from policing the City of Ferguson. The governor of Missouri is coming to visit the local area. Supposedly Obama is going to talk about Ferguson, but he seems to be running late. Sounds like federal law enforcement may take over.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-14/st-louis-county-police-to-be-removed-from-ferguson-clay.html

I don't care what your beliefs are about this whole situation...this is scary as hell.

[Great-Kazoo]

http://news.yahoo.com/police-chief-says-officer-missouri-shooting-injured-002948488.html

Obama calls for police to respect protesters in Ferguson, Missouri



maybe the police should go home and let the community leaders handle it.










Yo Homie, That my briefcase

[roberth]

http://news.yahoo.com/police-chief-says-officer-missouri-shooting-injured-002948488.html

Obama calls for police to respect protesters in Ferguson, Missouri

maybe the police should go home and let the community leaders handle it.

Yo Homie, That my briefcase

:)

Ya, if those "leaders" know so much...I'd love to see that.

[68Charger]

They say the memory is the first thing to go. Poor kazoo.

naw, the memory is the 2nd thing to go.... I can't remember what the first is.

[68Charger]

Trying to catch up on this thread- been a busy week, haven't had time to follow the story...

I've actually been there- our network has a POP in Maryland Heights... I remember going thru Ferguson for BBQ when travelling there.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

BHO forgot to say if I had a neighborhood...

[Chad4000]

BHO forgot to say if I had a neighborhood...

BAHAHHA ROLF

[RCCrawler]

Looks like the feds will be playing the role of good cop.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/14/eric-holder-department-of-justice-to-assist-with-ferguson-crowd-control/

[68Charger]

Interesting pictures here.

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8

Lost me here:
On Saturday, a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown, an unarmed black man. In the days that have followed, the town with a population of about 21,000

disregarding the race-baiting comments in the beginning, Ferguson is NOT a "town".. it is a 'burb of St. Louis.. short of anyone having been there, just looking it up in Google maps and zooming out will tell you it's not a "town" by any stretch...

at the point of reading that, the author lost ALL credibility, and I closed the tab in my browser.

[vossman]

The Gov of MO is a complete moron. Worst press conference I have ever seen. [facepalm]

[68Charger]

"Let dim tuche dos tangs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTkrUvfcTUc

I tried to have LESS respect for Celine Dion, but I ran into a divide by zero error... maybe somebody can help me with a new equation?

[68Charger]

The problem with body cams is then I have no privacy as the officer


When you are on the clock you should have no assumption of privacy, I know I don't at my job.

^^^ THIS!!!

Civilian LEO should have no special privy over citizens... only exceptions should be made for "black ops" that are related to National Security.. even those should be subject to congressional review (either before or after)

I am under the assumption that I am constantly monitored at work- camera, online activities, phone conversations, etc... maybe if every officer KNEW they were being monitored, they would conduct themselves differently...

[Chad4000]

^^^ THIS!!!

Civilian LEO should have no special privy over citizens... only exceptions should be made for "black ops" that are related to National Security.. even those should be subject to congressional review (either before or after)

I am under the assumption that I am constantly monitored at work- camera, online activities, phone conversations, etc... maybe if every officer KNEW they were being monitored, they would conduct themselves differently...

YES

[68Charger]

Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman were murdered more than 20 years ago. That crime was investigated and lots of evidence was gathered. The primary suspect was arrested and tried in a very public venue. There are still people who disagree about what happened the night of June 12, 1994.

Trayvon Martin was killed more than two years ago. That homicide was investigated and lots of evidence was gathered. The primary suspect was eventually arrested and tried in a very public venue. There are still people who disagree about what happened the night of February 26, 2012.

Don't be surprised after Michael Brown's death has been investigated and any judicial action takes place that people will still disagree about what happened on August 9, 2014. Expecting some type of definitive answers to questions about something that happened just four days ago seems to be a bit naive, but that might just be my bias. I'm patient. I can wait for the truth...when I decide what I believe to be the truth.

Be safe.
Quoted for truth... because of the stakes, we will NEVER know what really happened- and yes, I'm deliberately ignoring accounts by other posts because they don't cite sources... I wasn't there, and neither were they.


If it's "clear" to you what happened, you are taking sides and you must know something the rest of us don't. I don't think anything surrounding the shooting is clear except the fact Brown is dead.
Also quoted for truth, and to reinforce the above comments by me.


This is how barry and his agenda friends will attempt to get around the Posse-Comitatus Act after the public reacts to one of their manufactured crisis.

LE will continue the transition from peace officers to enforcers of the state and that is exactly what we will have unless people start taking it seriously.
Could this be a "dry run" to determine how to start a national level riot?

Just a thought...

[Brian]

Wow, reading this thread, I go from being scared to laughing out loud and back again.

[68Charger]

Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman were murdered more than 20 years ago. That crime was investigated and lots of evidence was gathered. The primary suspect was arrested and tried in a very public venue. There are still people who disagree about what happened the night of June 12, 1994.

Trayvon Martin was killed more than two years ago. That homicide was investigated and lots of evidence was gathered. The primary suspect was eventually arrested and tried in a very public venue. There are still people who disagree about what happened the night of February 26, 2012.

Don't be surprised after Michael Brown's death has been investigated and any judicial action takes place that people will still disagree about what happened on August 9, 2014. Expecting some type of definitive answers to questions about something that happened just four days ago seems to be a bit naive, but that might just be my bias. I'm patient. I can wait for the truth...when I decide what I believe to be the truth.

Be safe.


If it's "clear" to you what happened, you are taking sides and you must know something the rest of us don't. I don't think anything surrounding the shooting is clear except the fact Brown is dead.


^^^ THIS!!!

Civilian LEO should have no special privy over citizens... only exceptions should be made for "black ops" that are related to National Security.. even those should be subject to congressional review (either before or after)

I am under the assumption that I am constantly monitored at work- camera, online activities, phone conversations, etc... maybe if every officer KNEW they were being monitored, they would conduct themselves differently...

I read further posts indicating this may lead to less leniency in traffic stops- I'm ok with that, even if it's true... if your super wants you to be a jerk to citizens under their authority, then that will eventually come back to him,
I have the solution- whether you are in the field or not, your activity is monitored... so if your supervisor/chief wants to admonish officers for giving leniency to people for being overall good citizens, then we can jump all over that as well

This is what is know as TRANSPARENCY... something this admin has LIED about doing from the start...

In short, the practice of protecting other officers from misconduct because they are officers is BS, and ends NOW... unless you like condoning illegal behaviour.

[Irving]

I don't think this is a dry run for anything.

I'd rather NOT get let off for a speeding ticket than have my car be illegally searched or my head caved-in.

[HoneyBadger]

Subscribed, this thread is just too good not to check in on. I have a new end of the world plan, it involves some roof Koreans.
[ROFL3]

[HoneyBadger]

anyone using 335 for 223 loads ? Having pressure issues , what's your OAL?
Wait, I thought the PWT was the reloading thread???

And yes, my 335 is working nicely. I try to keep OAL right around 2.26

[flogger]

Can we stay on the subject here?

[Rucker61]

I tried to have LESS respect for Celine Dion, but I ran into a divide by zero error... maybe somebody can help me with a new equation?

Celine Dion walks into a bar...

[sniper7]

Can we stay on the subject here?


Whats the subject again? Cause so far everything we have talked about has fulfilled the subjects of this thread "riots, looting, gunfire"

[flogger]

And this, the Chief's response after learning that two journalists were arrested? http://www.businessinsider.com/ferguson-police-chief-freaked-after-cops-arrested-reporters-2014-8

To me, the whole thing just stinks: it seems that the response by 'officials' is unwarranted. Looks like they're trying to keep the press out, suppress information/freedoms, etc...

I disagree, if I am told to vacate by a police officer to vacate, in any situation, I will follow the suggestion. If I am a member of the press in a hot spot like this, you know you are asking for trouble taking your time to load up your laptop, finish your latte and video-tape the situation.

The police have their hands full here.

[flogger]

Wait,... do two vacates equal an entry?

[Irving]

The police have their hands full here.

Just not full enough to stop them from taking the time to light up some reporters at a coffee shop.

[Great-Kazoo]

Wait,... do two vacates equal an entry?

Only if she passed wind from 2 places at once.. yum, yum bumble bee, bumble bee tuna.

[clublights]

I'm finding this situation very disturbing....

Makes me wanna pull out all the "toys" and do full function checks / "top off" the lube jobs... Which I would do if we were any closer to ferguson...

[sniper7]

Only if she passed wind from 2 places at once.. yum, yum bumble bee, bumble bee tuna.

[ROFL1]

[Great-Kazoo]

Subscribed, this thread is just too good not to check in on. I have a new end of the world plan, it involves some roof Koreans.

The koreans are slinging roofies? WTF.

Looks like this thread didn't go downhill. More like ...

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608051190505799758&pid=15.1&P=0

[sniper7]

I'm finding this situation very disturbing....

Makes me wanna pull out all the "toys" and do full function checks / "top off" the lube jobs... Which I would do if we were any closer to ferguson...

Whats to say it couldn't happen here? We have had school shootings, theater shootings etc. all it could take is for the right situation to happen and the wrong response from the authorities to incite this type of response.

i already checked and lubed everything last night. Of course that was a different type of gun and I had some help, but maybe tonight I'll get the rest of them ready

[sniper7]

The koreans are slinging roofies? WTF.

Looks like this thread didn't go downhill. More like ...

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608051190505799758&pid=15.1&P=0


We know koreans are good drivers.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=acS4o5XbByY

[stoner01]

Actually I expected it here a lot sooner. Between DPD and aurora we have had enough incidents that could have been worse. Which is why I have some goodies in my truck should there be another day like during the dnc and occupy

[HoneyBadger]

I'm finding this situation very disturbing....

Makes me wanna pull out all the "toys" and do full function checks / "top off" the lube jobs... Which I would do if we were any closer to ferguson...
Agreed.

[cstone]

This is a very localized problem that is nationalized by the media.

Obviously the problem was beyond the 53-1 person Ferguson PD's ability to deal with and the St Louis County Police have not responded in a fashion that inspired confidence in the Governor of Missouri, but this isn't the summer of 68 redux.

I predict the Ferguson PD will be absorbed along with the entire city by either one of the adjoining towns or the county. Even if everything went calm from here forward, the financial strain on the city of Ferguson will probably break the small municipal government.

This type of thing can happen in many places. Which neighborhoods in Denver or the Springs would this most likely happen? How often do you go to those places? If the answer is never or seldom, then I would not expect this to be a major personal concern for anyone here.

Be safe.

[sniper7]

This is a very localized problem that is nationalized by the media.

Obviously the problem was beyond the 53-1 person Ferguson PD's ability to deal with and the St Louis County Police have not responded in a fashion that inspired confidence in the Governor of Missouri, but this isn't the summer of 68 redux.

I predict the Ferguson PD will be absorbed along with the entire city by either one of the adjoining towns or the county. Even if everything went calm from here forward, the financial strain on the city of Ferguson will probably break the small municipal government.

This type of thing can happen in many places. Which neighborhoods in Denver or the Springs would this most likely happen? How often do you go to those places? If the answer is never or seldom, then I would not expect this to be a major personal concern for anyone here.

Be safe.


Stop that with the sound of reason!

we need to sensationalize this and believe it is happening everywhere at all times! Every little towns PD is like a time bomb waiting to go off. But luckily we have our savior Obama to save us from these people. We need executive orders, marches, organizations, bans, political gatherings, rallies and sit-ins!



If you all don't get it, that is exactly what the libs do when gun violence occurs and the media sensationalizes it. Just like the tens of thousands of towns that don't have issues every day, tens of millions of gun owners don't have issues every day. Yet the media and special interest groups make you believe the world as you know it is about to be rocked and the only thing that will save us is new laws and divine intervention from BHO.

[cstone]

My first riot on the job. Seems like just a few decades ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Washington,_D.C._riot

[Gman]

Yo Homie, That my briefcase

http://youtu.be/jmKR6evZRQQ

[clublights]

Actually it's not the "civilian rioters" that have me worried...

It's the Ferguson PD / Whatever other LE Department's are involved in the violations.

Arresting members of the press... shooting tear gas at OBVIOUS members of the press then pointing their camera at the ground ... telling members of the press " we don't want you here" then all but forcefully escorting them away.

THAT shit has me worried.

[cstone]

I guess I'm not following why that worries you.

The activities by the local police were documented and it got the local police replaced by the state police. A different approach is being taken tonight and I am certain that any changes will be well documented.

Anyone want to guess how much of a career Chief Thomas Jackson of the Ferguson PD has left? I doubt any of us will hear how many of the senior Ferguson PD staff will retire and fade away over the next few months. I can imagine that working for the St Louis County PD will also be pretty bumpy for everyone there, at least in the short term.

Will some misdeeds go unpunished? Absolutely! Will some officers who did nothing wrong but they responded and did the best they could suffer? Yup. Sometimes we all get the short end of the stick.

We still have the most free press in the world and to look at four days of rioting in a St Louis suburb as sign of bad times to come, IMO might be a bit premature.

[brutal]

Whats to say it couldn't happen here? We have had school shootings, theater shootings etc. all it could take is for the right situation to happen and the wrong response from the authorities to incite this type of response.

i already checked and lubed everything last night. Of course that was a different type of gun and I had some help, but maybe tonight I'll get the rest of them ready

This is my rifle, this is my gun.
One is for fighting, one is for fun.


P.S. stop hanging around in PWT and you might get some rifles cleaned.

[th3w01f]

I found these tweets pretty interesting. https://storify.com/AthertonKD/veterans-on-ferguson


The general consensus here: if this is militarization, it's the shittiest, least-trained, least professional military in the world, using weapons far beyond what they need, or what the military would use when doing crowd control.

byKelsey D Atherton@AthertonKD

[flogger]

I found these tweets pretty interesting. https://storify.com/AthertonKD/veterans-on-ferguson

Good opinions from some good folks, " Lesson 1: Your mere presence has the potential to escalate the situation."

[hollohas]

Actually it's not the "civilian rioters" that have me worried...

It's the Ferguson PD / Whatever other LE Department's are involved in the violations.

Arresting members of the press... shooting tear gas at OBVIOUS members of the press then pointing their camera at the ground ... telling members of the press " we don't want you here" then all but forcefully escorting them away.

THAT shit has me worried.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/14/despite-reports-swat-team-helped-al-jazeera-reporters-did-not-take-their-equipment/


A spokesperson for the St. Charles County Sheriff’s department says the reporters “thanked their officers.”
“In fact, last night the SWAT Team officers were assisting the media in moving their camera equipment and media personnel to a safer area with their consent so that they could continue to cover the event, ” the Sheriff’s Department said in a news release.

[hollohas]

I found these tweets pretty interesting. https://storify.com/AthertonKD/veterans-on-ferguson
The point about it being a shity militarization because they are using gear beyond their needs is an important one that I share. However, it is also the most important fact that makes me believe that some departments ARE actively trying to be like a military type force. Why use gear that doesn't fit your need?

Police engagements are almost universally short range. My father was a state SWAT sniper in the 80's and 90's and they trained 200 yards and under. There was ZERO need for anything longer. Even for short range engagements officers do need AR type rifles IMO. That's been proven in past situations where they have been outgunned. I don't even care if they have select fire (Which I think civilians should have the same access to BTW) . But being short range situations, they don't need magnification. So why do many police rifles have ACOGs? Zero magnification is much more suited for their situation so why use anything else?

Why do some teams change into camo when it turns into a serious situation? Why do they even have camo? In SWAT or crowd control situations of the past they used to put on their helmet, their vest or plate carrier, grab their rifle/shotgun and a stack of flex cuffs, baton and riot shield...but it all went on top of their blue, green, tan or black POLICE uniform. The absolute ONLY reason to put on camo is for appearance...to appear like military.

Why spend time, money and effort on equipment/gear that doesn't fit the need? To appear like something they are not. Mere appearance of force can be a powerful crowd control tactic but the fact that some departments are choosing appearance over need is a bit disconcerting. A lack of training? I don't really think so. These teams train pretty hard. But they train like military (and in many cases WITH military). To me it's seeming more like some departments are adopting a military mindset and self-identification.

[hurley842002]

The point about it being a shity militarization because they are using gear beyond their needs is an important one that I share. However, it is also the most important fact that makes me believe that some departments ARE actively trying to be like a military type force. Why use gear that doesn't fit your need?

Police engagements are almost universally short range. My father was a state SWAT sniper in the 80's and 90's and they trained 200 yards and under. There was ZERO need for anything longer. Even for short range engagements officers do need AR type rifles IMO. That's been proven in past situations where they have been outgunned. I don't even care if they have select fire (Which I think civilians should have the same access to BTW) . But being short range situations, they don't need magnification. So why do many police rifles have ACOGs? Zero magnification is much more suited for their situation so why use anything else?

Why do some teams change into camo when it turns into a serious situation? Why do they even have camo? In SWAT or crowd control situations of the past they used to put on their helmet, their vest or plate carrier, grab their rifle/shotgun and a stack of flex cuffs, baton and riot shield...but it all went on top of their blue, green, tan or black POLICE uniform. The absolute ONLY reason to put on camo is for appearance...to appear like military.

Why spend time, money and effort on equipment/gear that doesn't fit the need? To appear like something they are not. Mere appearance of force can be a powerful crowd control tactic but the fact that some departments are choosing appearance over need is a bit disconcerting. A lack of training? I don't really think so. These teams train pretty hard. But they train like military (and in many cases WITH military). To me it's seeming more like some departments are adopting a military mindset and self-identification.

I'm not defending these particular officers, or any for that matter, but I AM genuinely curious as to your level of expertise on the subject of SWAT tactics, since you know what they do and do not need.

[PugnacAutMortem]

I'm not defending these particular officers, or any for that matter, but I AM genuinely curious as to your level of expertise on the subject of SWAT tactics, since you know what they do and do not need.

hollohas: My father was a state SWAT sniper in the 80's and 90's...

I'd say he would have more insight than the rest of us without personal SWAT experience. Not saying complete and total knowledge of the loadout that is necessary...but it would stand to reason that he would have more inside knowledge than a regular Joe Blow.

[hollohas]

I'm not defending these particular officers, or any for that matter, but I AM genuinely curious as to your level of expertise on the subject of SWAT tactics, since you know what they do and do not need.

My opinions on the subject have been formed after many lengthy personal discussions with a veteran highway patrol officer, SWAT team member and police trainer and nothing more. I am no expert.

[RblDiver]

So much for pictures of a sweet little 12-year-old in this case. See bottom of http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-identify-officer-in-michael-brown-shooting/.

[kidicarus13]

So much for pictures of a sweet little 12-year-old in this case. See bottom of http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-identify-officer-in-michael-brown-shooting/.

Big shocker!

[Great-Kazoo]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/police-Obama-Missouri-criticism/2014/08/15/id/588921/?promo_code=165C6-1

"I would contend that discussing police tactics from Martha's Vineyard is not helpful to ultimately calming the situation," Executive Director Jim Pasco told The Hill (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/215178-police-chief-hits-obama-for-ferguson-remarks).

I think what he has to do as president and as a constitutional lawyer is remember that there is a process in the United States and the process is being followed, for good or for ill, by the police and by the county and by the city and by the prosecutors’ office."

[BushMasterBoy]

Ferguson police claim they have evidence a suspect fitting the description of Michael Brown, committed a "strong arm" robbery of a convenience store shortly before he was killed. Read it for your self.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-say-michael-brown-fit-description-strong-arm-robbery-suspect/

[Ronin13]

My biggest frustration with this whole thing is how immediately everyone in Ferguson (and other places) assumes that Brown was innocent, the officer shoot him in cold blood, and that Brown was not an aggressor in any way. They spout "No justice, no peace" well before any kind of investigation can even come close to getting it's wheels rolling. They try and convict the officer in the court of public opinion before Brown's body is even cold. Is this what we have to look forward to in everything now? No patience? Everyone jumping to a conclusion before hardly any facts on the matter can come out. Or will they not even accept or consider any facts? Same thing happened with Rodney King and Trayvon Martin.

Oh and for those hell bent on being critical of LE militarization, I leave you this:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/15/da59a663043aa5b73d85f578e506955c.jpg

[MrPrena]

I prefer Khaki vest wearing Korean.
This guy was clearly 20 years ahead of time.




http://www.flixist.com/ul/212371-kaffla-review-clash-of-colors-the-la-riots-of-1992/Clash-of-Colors-LA-Riots-of-1992-movie-review-david-kim-korean-store-owner-noscale.jpg




http://www.militaryuniformsupply.com/files/80001-511-tactical-vest-khaki.jpg

[hollohas]

Ronin. That picture is absolutely true. Police today need more firepower and better equipment than days-gone-by. But some of the gear that some departments are choosing don't fall within the more firepower and better equipment category. For instance, camo gear as I mentioned. It's for appearance only and reflects upon the mindset some departments seem to be developing. I don't believe that military mindset is necessarily based on bad intentions. I think a lot of it has to do with LE getting training from instructors or institutions with military backgrounds. Perhaps it also has something to do with more and more LEO's having military backgrounds such as yourself. Again, experience is a great thing. I do however believe the tactics used by the military and the tactics used by the police are vastly different and dictate a different mindset, require different gear and different techniques. I don't think anyone can argue that civilian looters, riots and hostage situations are a different beast than a campaign against an enemy insurgency. However, the line between some police tactical teams and military is getting very blurry and is a valid discussion.

I absolutely agree on the points about people jumping to conclusions with regards to this case and others. I get so tired to hearing the phrase "shot an unarmed..." Insert the blank. Just because someone is not armed doesn't mean they weren't dangerous or guilty of a crime.

[Dave_L]

Social media allows the mob mentality to fester VERY quickly now.

[HBARleatherneck]

how funny. or not.

literally millions of police actions every year in the United States. 99% of them do not involve California shootouts or anything like that.

yet Ronin and others like him think that ALL cops need to be militarized because of the super extremely rare chance that it could happen. meanwhile we are financially bankrupt buying this stuff, mainting it, training how to use it, then paying lawyers and families when it all gets screwed up. (of course as long as we have someone out revenueing we can buy more stuff)

most cops do not need this shit. its a made up mentality. and I guess if these were private citizens using their own money it would be one thing. BUT, we have them using our money and then there is the obvious potential for abuse. I grew up where everyone loved cops. Now increasingly I talk to people who are more afraid of cops now. WHY? the gear, the mentality, etc.

and none of my comments pertain to this actual story, just response to some of the comments.

[Chad4000]

Oh and for those hell bent on being critical of LE militarization, I leave you this:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/15/da59a663043aa5b73d85f578e506955c.jpg


ugh...................[facepalm]

[Chad4000]

how funny. or not.

literally millions of police actions every year in the United States. 99% of them do not involve California shootouts or anything like that.

yet Ronin and others like him think that ALL cops need to be militarized because of the super extremely rare chance that it could happen. meanwhile we are financially bankrupt buying this stuff, mainting it, training how to use it, then paying lawyers and families when it all gets screwed up. (of course as long as we have someone out revenueing we can buy more stuff)

most cops do not need this shit. its a made up mentality. and I guess if these were private citizens using their own money it would be one thing. BUT, we have them using our money and then their is the obvious potential for abuse. I grew up where everyone loved cops. Now increasingly I talk to people who are more afraid now. WHY? the gear, the mentality, etc.

and none of my comments pertain to this actual story, just response to some of the comments.

yes

[Zundfolge]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/15/da59a663043aa5b73d85f578e506955c.jpg


Right, because heavily armed criminals is a new thing.

http://s3.sidereel.com/episodes/295863/webtv_featured/2539651.jpghttp://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/f1/Pe-ct-dillinger1.jpg/600px-Pe-ct-dillinger1.jpg

Somehow these guys were able to keep the peace without machine guns, armored personnel carriers, and balaclavas.

http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/police/about/1930-2.jpg

[Chad4000]

^^ exactly

[SamuraiCO]

Ferguson police claim they have evidence a suspect fitting the description of Michael Brown, committed a "strong arm" robbery of a convenience store shortly before he was killed. Read it for your self.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-say-michael-brown-fit-description-strong-arm-robbery-suspect/

But he was innocent and just minding his own business when "The Man" rolled up and shot the unarmed victim.

[HBARleatherneck]

the other thing I find extremely hypocritical is some of the members here continually say we dont need more gun control and post the declining crime numbers. and then SOME of those same people are the ones calling for more police militarization. if crime is declining (and FBI stats show it is) then we dont need every PD and SO thinking they are a combat unit in Afghanistan.
we know why cops are militarizing and its because government is inherently evil and the people who run it are evil.

[ruthabagah]

if crime is declining (and FBI stats show it is) then we dont need every PD and SO thinking they are a combat unit in Afghanistan.
we know why cops are militarizing and its because government is inherently evil and the people who run it are evil.

Well said.

[PugnacAutMortem]

My biggest frustration with this whole thing is how immediately everyone in Ferguson (and other places) assumes that Brown was innocent, the officer shoot him in cold blood, and that Brown was not an aggressor in any way. They spout "No justice, no peace" well before any kind of investigation can even come close to getting it's wheels rolling. They try and convict the officer in the court of public opinion before Brown's body is even cold. Is this what we have to look forward to in everything now? No patience? Everyone jumping to a conclusion before hardly any facts on the matter can come out. Or will they not even accept or consider any facts? Same thing happened with Rodney King and Trayvon Martin.

Oh and for those hell bent on being critical of LE militarization, I leave you this: (pic deleted for space saving)

Ronin, I think I may have even said this to you before. But since you are LE...it's really difficult for someone to take your opinion on a matter like this as viable. You are buttering your bread on both sides with an issue like this, and it comes across as disingenuous. I work in the pipe business and anytime people ask me about fracking I tell them that I don't get to have an opinion on something controversial that also pays my paycheck every month. Whether or not I actually do have an opinion on it, it just is better to keep it to myself in these instances. I would ask you to do the same when it comes to these kinds of things.

[BushMasterBoy]

Looks like Michael Brown robbed a store before he was shot and killed by a police officer. Still not sure about the confrontation with the police officer, but Michael Brown surely was not the "gentle giant" friends and family claim. I think if I was a patrolman, I'd be wearing a "Go Pro" for my own legal protection.


48431

[davsel]

Ronin, I think I may have even said this to you before. But since you are LE...it's really difficult for someone to take your opinion on a matter like this as viable. You are buttering your bread on both sides with an issue like this, and it comes across as disingenuous. I work in the pipe business and anytime people ask me about fracking I tell them that I don't get to have an opinion on something controversial that also pays my paycheck every month. Whether or not I actually do have an opinion on it, it just is better to keep it to myself in these instances. I would ask you to do the same when it comes to these kinds of things.

^^ Exactly!
Why would you ask the opinion of someone who may have more information on a subject of interest.
Just stick with the uninformed street rat if you want to get the facts.
[Sarcasm2]

[Mick-Boy]

In fairness, the examples of heavily armed criminals that you gave were often countered by heavily armed cops. If I recall correctly the crew that whacked Bonnie and Clyde had BARs, Thompsons and Remington model 8s.

48435

48439

4844148441

[PugnacAutMortem]

^^ Exactly!
Why would you ask the opinion of someone who may have more information on a subject of interest.
Just stick with the uninformed street rat if you want to get the facts.
[Sarcasm2]

Sure you might have more facts about whatever the issue is. But because you draw a paycheck from said issue, there's little to no motivation to think critically about it. And as such, your opinion on the matter loses is voracity in other's eyes. Nobody said "the uninformed street rat" is the highest regarded opinion, and that's quite the jump in logic if that's what you gleaned from my post. But for people who provide for their families because of these controversial issues, the opinions on said issues must be taken with a LARGE grain of salt at a minimum and completely disregarded because of subjectivity at the maximum.

[hollohas]

and I guess if these were private citizens using their own money it would be one thing. BUT, we have them using our money and then their is the obvious potential for abuse.
.

And this is an important point. Because as private citizens we believe that a less than 1% chance that we may find trouble a reason enough to carry. But it's our own personal money so it doesn't matter what our reason is. If I want to put a 100 power scope on my shorty AR who cares. I don't have a need for it but needs don't dictate what I spend my money on. I don't have a job to do with my gear so it doesn't matter one iota if my gear is practical or not.

But when it's public money funding these things than absolutely they should have to show there is an actual NEED. Police should be prepared for abnormal situations but those situations should be based in realistic scenarios.

But the vast majority of LEO's never fire their weapon while on duty and of the ones that do barely any engage at distances over a few feet...so what makes them think they need camo, ACOG's, etc? Those gear choices don't come from any actual or potential need, they come from a unrealistic mindset of what the job description is and a desire to have the appearance/effect of a military force.

PS - I don't have a 100x scope on an AR nor do I have any tactical gear so don't anyone get your panties in a bunch and copy this post into the "what the hell were they thinking" thread or some other mall ninja thread. ;)

[Gman]

Oh and for those hell bent on being critical of LE militarization, I leave you this:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/15/da59a663043aa5b73d85f578e506955c.jpg


...but then you have a situation like this where 2 women delivering newspapers are confused for a rogue officer with a vendetta against others in the LAPD.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017ee850259a970d-640wi
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lapd-cops-shot-women-violated-policy-article-1.1602272

This whole situation in MO is ugly. You can't ignore the lawlessness by the "protestors". Let the facts come out and then judgment can follow.

[brutal]

In fairness, the examples of heavily armed criminals that you gave were often countered by heavily armed cops. If I recall correctly the crew that whacked Bonnie and Clyde had BARs, Thompsons and Remington model 8s.

48435

48439

4844148441

With all due respect to you Mickboy, Bonnie and Clyde rocked a BAR so they were met appropriately with like force.

I think the point many are trying to make is that the modern PD is WAY outgunning the general populace they are often called upon to confront or maintain order, AND any bad guys they are likely to encounter. I'm all for giving them what they need to counter the really bad guys, but don't get why do they need to bring out the heavy stuff for a situation that doesn't warrant it. The camo, select fire, and unwarranted use of ill-suited heavy armor only serves to incite the crowds.

Please don't take my comments above to in any way shape or form, support the actions of the mobs present in this situation.

[Dave_L]

Bonnie and Clyde's captors didn't get heavily armed until after they realized what they were up against. They called in special agents to form a task force to get them. The normal PD was not armed with all that to start, if I remember correctly.

[hollohas]

The camo, select fire, and unwarranted use of ill-suited heavy armor only serves to incite the crowds.

.

I have no idea if anyone has ever studied the effect of excessive force on crowds/riots but today seems to lend some truth to this. The State police rolled in there without any of the heavy equipment and the riots calmed down significantly. Reports are crowds welcomed the State police.

[stoner01]

With all due respect to you Mickboy, Bonnie and Clyde rocked a BAR so they were met appropriately with like force.

I think the point many are trying to make is that the modern PD is WAY outgunning the general populace they are often called upon to confront or maintain order, AND any bad guys they are likely to encounter. I'm all for giving them what they need to counter the really bad guys, but don't get why do they need to bring out the heavy stuff for a situation that doesn't warrant it. The camo, select fire, and unwarranted use of ill-suited heavy armor only serves to incite the crowds.

Please don't take my comments above to in any way shape or form, support the actions of the mobs present in this situation.

I don't believe most departments are any more well armed than some of the members on here. I think the main difference between LE and the general populous is the quality of the firearm, nfa and maybe select fire. I don't know a lot of cops with select fire rifles but I've seen quite a few mp5s.
Now do I believe that often times the police are quick to utilize some form of shock and awe, yes. But even in small jurisdictions we are seeing a lot of weird and crazy shit and I'd rather be too armored than not enough. Does it make sense for riot control officers to be wearing level 3 or 4 ballistic protection, not really. But when you throw out threats of " the only good cop is a dead cop" I'd rather see them in armor than just padded riot gear.
Camo, is debatable. I know DPD swat uses the green flight suits. I know mountain or rural agencies use the camo. It's all environment dependent. As for an urban or suburban agency using camo, that's fine for training, but I never saw the use for it. JmHO. But hey, the crowds would get pissed off at the presence of police regardless of uniform.

ETA: maybe not, just read about the MO troopers coming in.

[Zundfolge]

In fairness, the examples of heavily armed criminals that you gave were often countered by heavily armed cops. If I recall correctly the crew that whacked Bonnie and Clyde had BARs, Thompsons and Remington model 8s.
My point was that folk like Bonnie and Clyde and the Dillinger gang weren't used as an excuse to militarize your regular officers.

The truth is the militarization of our police is because the police have embraced the concept of no-knock raids to keep misdemeanor pot smokers from being able to flush their baggie down the john when they show up with a search warrant. Something that has nothing to do with the BS notion that every patrolman may have to face down a North Hollywood Bank Robber.

[Kraven251]

I am quite amused at the sudden silence of all the "that poor kid" people on my social media feed. You can have an opinion on a situation, but until you have all the facts it is best to wait. We may not ever have all the facts and the officer may have been out of line or well within regs, but the sudden realization that the police may have actually had a reason to be interested in this individual changes the scope more than a little bit.

[SuperiorDG]

When did camo become more intimidating then all black?

[stoner01]

When did camo become more intimidating then all black?

When the army went to acu

[hollohas]

The truth is the militarization of our police is because the police have embraced the concept of no-knock raids to keep misdemeanor pot smokers from being able to flush their baggie down the john when they show up with a search warrant. Something that has nothing to do with the BS notion that every patrolman may have to face down a North Hollywood Bank Robber.

You mean something like this?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/15/count-for-yourself-how-many-seconds-it-takes-swat-team-to-shatter-houses-window-glass-door-after-knocking-and-announcing-search-warrant/