.223/5.56 Cans

[mutt]

I've been looking at getting into the suppressor game and I like to get some opinions on these cans from those who have them:

AAC M4-2000 - this seems to be the perfect suppressor for ARs. Any gotchas other than the price? Does the AAC fast attach ratchet mount work as well as the reviews and videos seem to indicate?

Gemtech HALO - I'm mostly drawn to this because it attaches to a standard A2 flash hider. Therefore I don't have to buy suppressor mounts for every AR I own. However it seems this attachment method is a bit clunky and the HALO is heavy (21 oz). I was considering this as the can I'd use on ARs I couldn't mount the M4-2000 to. Is that a good strategy or should I just bite the bullet and buy AAC 51T flash hiders for all my ARs and stick solely with the M4-2000?

[XC700116]

Really depends on the overall uses you plan, SBR, high rate of fire, precision work etc. depending on those items it can help narrow things down a bit/open or close doors to other options. I'm personally not a huge fan of AAC's mounting system vs some of the others like surefire, Griffin, and Thunderbeast, but my priorities may be drastically different from yours (accuracy gets first priority for me) This also makes the Halo a no go for me and as you mentioned it's a heavy mofo.

I'm also in the research phase of getting a 556 can and have all but settled on a TBAC 223 CB or a Surefire socom for my purposes.

[mutt]

My primary goal now is simple noise reduction. I'll use them on SBRs and 16in rifles. Normal semi-auto rate of fire, nothing full auto.

However I am also looking to buy a high quality suppressor that will have the greatest feature set to address future needs. I want to have all my Form 4's and Form 1's submitted before the possible ATF rule change requiring CLEO sign off on trusts. Since I live in Arapahoe County, getting a CLEO to sign off on anything is impossible. If the rule change happens, I probably won't be buying NFA regulated stuff for a long time. I might as well over-buy (capability wise) now while I still can. It's better to have features I won't use than being stuck with something that falls short, and I can't buy what I need because some anti-2A CLEO won't sign off.

What features make you like the TBAC 223 CB or Surefire socom over the M4-2000? I am a can newb so there's a lot of things I haven't considered when it comes to features because I don't know what to look for. All my "knowledge" is coming from reading web sites and watching videos.

[driver]

I am also looking into a 5.56 can. It was pointed out to me that the AACs may require the removal of the forend to attach and remove. Depending on your clearance and barrel to forend lengths because of the lever. My pistol (future SBR) setup has me looking at silencerco now. I bought a Pilot2 and will use the AAC damn the man credit for a muzzle device from them. Silencerco makes mounts that work with AAC's muzzle brakes.

[Great-Kazoo]

I own both the AAC M-4 & Halo. while heavier i'd suggest the Halo over the AAC. The weight while noticeable is negligible once you start shooting regarding the felt recoil & reduced muzzle jump. The TBA IMO is one of the pinnacles of sound suppression.
If the OP or anyone else would like to compare an AAC - Halo touch bases, don't forget the ammo.

[asmo]

M4-2000 for normal SBR use. All of my SBR's are 51T mounts and I have never had a problem, and they have been run very very hard on occasion. The other thing you may want to consider is a .30 cal can - something like a Saker or a SDN, gives you a little more multi-use capability without that much of a degradation in sound loss.

TBAC for precision work - without question. I love mine and so does everyone else who has one.

[mutt]

I own both the AAC M-4 & Halo. while heavier i'd suggest the Halo over the AAC. The weight while noticeable is negligible once you start shooting regarding the felt recoil & reduced muzzle jump. The TBA IMO is one of the pinnacles of sound suppression.
If the OP or anyone else would like to compare an AAC - Halo touch bases, don't forget the ammo.

Why do you like the Halo over the M-4?

[mutt]

M4-2000 for normal SBR use. All of my SBR's are 51T mounts and I have never had a problem, and they have been run very very hard on occasion. The other thing you may want to consider is a .30 cal can - something like a Saker or a SDN, gives you a little more multi-use capability without that much of a degradation in sound loss.

TBAC for precision work - without question. I love mine and so does everyone else who has one.

I'll have to research TBAC. I think I discounted them because they seemed to be geared towards direct attached applications and I was looking for QD. As for the .30 cal can, I'll be getting one of those too. In the end I plan to have .22lr, .223/5.56, .30cal and 9mm cans. I toyed with the idea of a .45 as well but I don't shoot that enough to warrant investing in a can for it.

[Irving]

How quickly do you feel like you'll need to be detaching and attaching cans?

[Great-Kazoo]

Why do you like the Halo over the M-4?

IMO it's a better produced can, quieter and utilizes (for me) A1 flash hiders. I went with A1 over A2 for a few reasons. #1 i had a pile of them, #2 GT suggest not using a crush washer behind your F/Hider. Which may be needed on an A2 for it to clock right. It's an easier mounting system AND more cost effective. Is it heavier, yes.

Regarding you going with a 9 over 45 because you don't shoot it enough to invest in one. Buy the 45 and use it on your 9. Once you get the 9 you'll wonder why you didn't go with the 45 . You'll also see more use with the 45. I went with a 45 over a 9 since i wanted to suppress my 357 lever. After that i ended up with a 45 because... i had a 45 can. I don't care for 45 as a caliber, go figure.

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/home.asp

WARNING - DO NOT USE A CRUSH WASHER WHEN MOUNTING GEMTECH SUPPRESSORS

[mutt]

How quickly do you feel like you'll need to be detaching and attaching cans?

I could see myself doing it a lot. I'm not going to buy a can for every AR I own. I wish I was made of money but unfortunately I'm not. I figure I would put adapters on all the ARs and just move 1 or 2 cans among them as I needed.

[mutt]

IMO it's a better produced can, quieter and utilizes (for me) A1 flash hiders. I went with A1 over A2 for a few reasons. #1 i had a pile of them, #2 GT suggest not using a crush washer behind your F/Hider. Which may be needed on an A2 for it to clock right. It's an easier mounting system AND more cost effective. Is it heavier, yes.

Regarding you going with a 9 over 45 because you don't shoot it enough to invest in one. Buy the 45 and use it on your 9. Once you get the 9 you'll wonder why you didn't go with the 45 . You'll also see more use with the 45. I went with a 45 over a 9 since i wanted to suppress my 357 lever. After that i ended up with a 45 because... i had a 45 can. I don't care for 45 as a caliber, go figure.

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/home.asp

WARNING - DO NOT USE A CRUSH WASHER WHEN MOUNTING GEMTECH SUPPRESSORS

Cool. I will give the Halo another look over.

I saw the notice about not using crush washers with Gemtechs. I figured if I went with the Halo, I'd spend a night replacing crush washers with peel washers/spacers and re-timing my A2 flash hiders.

Is there a significant sound increase using a .45 can on a 9mm? My biggest reason for wanting cans is sound suppression so I don't destroy my hearing by the time I am 60. So to achieve max suppression I assumed the can caliber must always match the firearm's caliber. If the difference is negligible then I am all for having 1 can support multiple calibers.

[HoneyBadger]

Remember when talking about sound suppression: 3dB louder is twice as loud and 3dB quieter is half as loud. Decibel math is logarithmic.

So if using a .308 can on a .223 rifle is 3dB louder than a dedicated .223 can, it is twice as loud. That is pretty significant.

[Big John]

Remember when talking about sound suppression: 3dB louder is twice as loud and 3dB quieter is half as loud. Decibel math is logarithmic.

So if using a .308 can on a .223 rifle is 3dB louder than a dedicated .223 can, it is twice as loud. That is pretty significant.I have a .30 cal Specwar currently in Jail for use on a 300 BLK and 5.56. My son has a 5.56 Specwar in jail that should be out in about the same time frame. It will be nice (sometime this year) to be able to compare this in person.

I'm also waiting on a form one that should come in any day to make my own titanium 30 cal can with basic tools and off the shelf parts. This should be done several months ahead of my commercial suppressor as you can e-file the form 1 and they are coming back in under two months. I'll have about $200 into that suppressor including the muzzle brake/mount. The reason I bring this up is there's a huge cost/time savings. Therefore the OP could do more than one suppressor on his budget. As well as, it will be fun to compare my "roll yer own" can to a commercial can.

Here's (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/434329_The__100_effective_Form1_suppressors__and_o ne_not_so__100_____56k_beware__or_even_2mb_like_me ______.html) the link to 77 pages of info on getting it done.

[TheBelly]

I've used the Gemtech Halos in some pretty rough areas. It's big, it's heavy, and it's WAAAAYYYYYYY out on the end of the barrel. You WILL see significant POI shift.

If you're looking ahead, please don't discount the use of a .30 cal can on a .223.

I use a TBAC for all my precision stuff.....on purpose.

[paddywagon]

For most of my general semi auto shooting i use a Specwar 762. Advantage is I can use it on 30 cal as well as 22 cal. Very quick detach on them as they use a flash hider or brake that is specific to them. I even run it on a couple precision rifles with little POI change. I do also have a TBAC 30 that i run on my Sako's that I like very much as well. They are not really designed for sustained fire though. Both are excellent in noise rating and if i was to choose only one I would go with the Specwar.

[SouthPaw]

After lots of research I finally narrowed my 5.56 can to the Saker 7.62. More versatility and it is actually quieter than the Saker 5.56. I debated hard between the YHM phantom LT and the Saker. What sold me on the Saker was the bbl length warranty.

[Hoser]

I have several centerfire rifle cans. All but one of them are 308 cans. My only 223 can is a SF mini. It is very quiet and the attachment method is rock solid. I looked at all the other "fast" attach cans and the SF was the most solid and hardest to screw up. After 800-1000 rounds the can is a little difficult to remove, but some kroil and a dead blow, and it pops right off.

I personally think fast attach cans are just a gimmick. How many of us actually need to attach a can in a hurry?

My Thunderbeast 30PS and PSS are pretty much staying on my 6 Grendel and AR-10.

Dont get wrapped up around numbers. Tone and overall volume is very subjective. And in a semi, you get lots of noise coming out of the action.

[MarkCO]

I went with the Gemtech HALO and I really like it. I use it on a 16" bolt gun and a 16" AR and I see little if any POI shift, but then they are thicker barrels. I use A1 FHs as well. The HALO is just bomb proof. The suppression is very good, and, even after thousands of rounds, they still work. There is a reason that many of the FA guys with rental guns use the HALO. For me, I did not want to "maintain" a .223 suppressor, and for my purposes, the HALO is the winner.

I have other suppressors, including TB, but my purposes for those are much different than for the .223/HALO rigs.

[thvigil11]

I've been building form 1 cans for a while now. I am a fan of direct thread. It allows me to run a tighter bore with less worry of a baffle strike. Teflon tape has meant me never having a problem with a suppressor shooting loose. I agree that quick attach is a little gimmicky. QD means you also have to deal with extra weight of the QD system, POI shift and a few other variables ( getting stuck). Basically I run each host as dedicated to that suppressor. In fact I am thinking of talking my friend out of the MK18 upper I'm listing for him and setting it up as a non suppressed clone of my 10.5 suppressed gun. Then if I want to shoot a sbr suppressed I grab the one dedicated upper or if unsuppressed, I grab the bare upper. I might even be tempted to pin/weld the suppressor on the one and run it on a non sbr lower.

Having tools is fun.

[Great-Kazoo]

Having tools is fun.

Yes it is. Waiting for it to warm up a tad and get my F1 approved before doing my suppressor. Think i'll order a Ti tube while i wait.

[XC700116]

What features make you like the TBAC 223 CB or Surefire socom over the M4-2000? I am a can newb so there's a lot of things I haven't considered when it comes to features because I don't know what to look for. All my "knowledge" is coming from reading web sites and watching videos.

I like the Tbac for precision, and their brake attach allows for multi-weapon use without sacraficing the precision aspect, but other than the 223A they're a no go on SBR's. The surefire's for the reasons Hoser stated, they don't give up anything in the precision department and get you the QD, but they aren't cheap either.

I look at supressors as an investment and if I'm dropping 700 for something that's not 100% vs $1300 for one that is, I'll spend the extra money. I have zero interest in a 556 SBR, (If I'm doing an SBR it'll be a 300 BO, and that's a whole other conversation) so the precision aspect, then weight, then supression are my criteria in that order, TBAC and Surefire fill those roles best.

[275RLTW]

There is a lightweight HALO that's been out for a year or 2 now. $200 more but considerably lighter. I'm sure their website lists the exact weights.

[KestrelBike]

Nice thread guys, thanks for everyone pitching in info!

I'm also trying to get into the silencer game. I'd be using them on basically two rifles, both are 5.56. I think I'm going to go for a SilencerCo specwar 7.62. This would allow compatibility for an SBR'd .300blk in the possible future, and the specwar seems to be quieter than their Saker (I have no future plans for full auto, even though that's apparently the Specwar line's purpose). One rifle would be my 3gun competition rifle with a specwar trifecta muzzle brake, the other would be just general semi-auto 14.5 pinned to 16+ with the specwar trifecta flash hider for general fun. I'm not worried about weight/length, just like the OP into good-enough-future-proofing with solid investment. And it's not I need high-speed QD, but the silencerco "package" just seems the easiest to deal with.

Anyone see any immediate, glaring errors or "Should-Have'd"s on my part?