View Full Version : Real Estate Market. Thoughts?
Well we got the approval for the sale! I had neighbors sign letters saying they were ok with the sale. I sent a copy of the family's letter that was included with the offer to the HOA to show them it was a good family moving in. I also typed out a detailed argument for the sale of the home that no reasonable person could deny since their own rules said there's flexibility if the rules were being too harsh. Phew. Bummer was we weren't able to pack all weekend due to having showings again. But hey, it all worked out so now into rapid pack mode!
HoneyBadger
06-02-2015, 10:41
Sorry about the headaches, but that's great news!
Back to market talk, I'm starting to lose some of the warm fuzzies I originally had about buying a house in CA... But we're closing tomorrow. [Dunno]
Prices are still rising 10-20% each year in this area, for the third year in a row. Additionally, new neighborhoods are being built in farm fields and the builders can't keep up, while older builds are off the market in less than a week for $20k or more over the asking price. Sound familiar? The only difference is that home values here are still down 40% or more from where they were in 2005.
Great news! I'm glad to hear it worked out, although I imagine your stress levels won't be coming down any time soon.
I'd stay away from HOAs in the future, personally. They're not worth the trouble and can cost you in ways you can't forsee until situations like this are upon you.
I wonder how difficult it'd be to get rid of an HOA once it's in place. Logic would suggest it'd only take a certain percentage of signatures, but I'm sure there is more to it than that.
I'd stay away from HOAs in the future, personally. They're not worth the trouble and can cost you in ways you can't forsee until situations like this are upon you.
I plan to be much more active at the next community with the HOA. Everyone just ignores their meetings which gives them even more power.
I plan to be much more active at the next community with the HOA. Everyone just ignores their meetings which gives them even more power.
Unless you get other neighbors to come too, enough to meet the % threshold for decision-making per the HOA, you'll just be spinning your wheels at these meetings. I've gone to half a dozen for mine, and there's never more than 7-8 attendees, out of 72 residents in our neighborhood. We have not been able to amend anything at all, ever...
Fortunately, our HOA is actually pretty good and doesn't require a lot of amendments in my opinion, but nevertheless, it's designed to work against the individual home owner and seemingly stifle their voice.
Unless you get other neighbors to come too, enough to meet the % threshold for decision-making per the HOA, you'll just be spinning your wheels at these meetings. I've gone to half a dozen for mine, and there's never more than 7-8 attendees, out of 72 residents in our neighborhood. We have not been able to amend anything at all, ever...
Fortunately, our HOA is actually pretty good and doesn't require a lot of amendments in my opinion, but nevertheless, it's designed to work against the individual home owner and seemingly stifle their voice.
Looks like it'll require a community activist. :D Put out flyers and provide pizza to everyone that attends, do an ice cream social after for the families of attendeess at the pool house, etc. Just need to give people proper motivation.
I did find it funny that one of the HOA board members flies a "Don't tread on me" flag outside his house...as they deny paint colors and home sales. LOL.
mtnrider
06-02-2015, 14:20
When we first moved out here 7 years ago we bought a house in a neighborhood with a HOA. First time in 25+ years of owning homes that I was exposed to one. What a pain in the rear. Never again. We have since sold that place and bought a property with some land and no pain in the rear neighbors or HOA.
The petty BS that goes on is ridiculous. "your garbage can was exposed for more then 24 hours" "Your Christmas lights have to be down by X date" "your kids playset can only be Xft high". Ridiculous.
I have a office mate who is "that guy" in the neighborhood. I swear he is calling the HOA daily to bitch about some thing or someone. Drives me crazy.
http://www.realtor.com/news/trends/hottest-real-estate-markets-may-2015/
Bump. About a year later and the market has gone even higher.
kawiracer14
04-21-2016, 12:16
Bump. About a year later and the market has gone even higher.
The market ain't going down anytime soon. Vacancy rates are super low, tons of people are moving here. It's not a bubble.
When pot hype dies down, it will "slow" the increase in demand. If increase in supply goes full retard , we will see a price decrease.
Up here rental rates have hit a plateau
Grant H.
04-21-2016, 20:35
I think the growth will slow this year, but unless we see a global economy collapse, I don't see it collapsing here.
One of the realtors I know was running through a few points.
- Houses selling at or above asking price is up 212% from 2011.
- 56% of single family homes in the front range sold for their listing price or higher last year.
- The Metro area has a 3.2% unemployment rate.
- Boulder County is at 2.6% unemployment.
- 25 year average of listings on the market is 13,340, which is approximately 3x higher than current.
- Boulder's median sales price has increased 48.9% since January 2015.
- Denver has 19 new new hotels in 2016, making us 9th for new hotel growth.
- Google is pouring money into their Bolder Campus, and planning to grow their local force from ~350 to 1500.
And so on.
With the exception of the lack of easy loans, what is different from this market than the one in 2008? I'm not trying to be sly, I really don't know. I generally view markets as in between peaks and crashes.
Grant H.
04-21-2016, 20:42
With the exception of the lack of easy loans, what is different from this market than the one in 2008? I'm not trying to be sly, I really don't know. I generally view markets as in between peaks and crashes.
Locally speaking, the biggest difference is the strength of the local economy.
However, world wide, I'm not convinced that we've got that long.
Great-Kazoo
04-21-2016, 20:59
Locally speaking, the biggest difference is the strength of the local economy.
However, world wide, I'm not convinced that we've got that long.
Exactly what is, The Strength of the Local Economy?
My cousin and I were discussing this today.
How the hell does someone relocating afford rent, let alone a house? I doubt every business in CO is paying $15 - 30 hourly. I also wonder how the hell someone can put down as much as our house cost 20+ years ago. AND afford a $1500 - 2500 monthly mortgage.
How do you new[er] home buyers do it? Granted there's the east coast, sold their home for $3-500K buyer, but everyone? We're perplexed how people are moving in to HOMES FROM THE MID $200'S Horton builders dream.
My last job has already lost some people that they brought in from Wyoming due to the living expenses. They went from making maybe $12/hr to closer to $18/hr ($36,000 salary), BUT the taxes and housing was so much more expensive that they couldn't swing it and ran back home.
ColoradoMinuteMan
04-21-2016, 21:36
The market ain't going down anytime soon. Vacancy rates are super low, tons of people are moving here. It's not a bubble.
I hear you. I do have to say though the first indicator for me that there is a bubble is when k hear so many people saying "there is no bubble." CO has a lot going for it but I saw this first hand back in CA. I sill have property there. The reality is we are by my definition in a bubble. That is, when real estate costs significantly outpace wage growth. In the early 1980s-2000 it took an average 23% of a CO residents income to pay for housing. Now it takes 35%. I have no doubt we are In a bubble. That is an unsustainable situation that will eventually reach equilibrium one way or another.
Grant H.
04-21-2016, 21:44
Exactly what is, The Strength of the Local Economy?
My cousin and I were discussing this today.
How the hell does someone relocating afford rent, let alone a house? I doubt every business in CO is paying $15 - 30 hourly. I also wonder how the hell someone can put down as much as our house cost 20+ years ago. AND afford a $1500 - 2500 monthly mortgage.
How do you new[er] home buyers do it? Granted there's the east coast, sold their home for $3-500K buyer, but everyone? We're perplexed how people are moving in to HOMES FROM THE MID $200'S Horton builders dream.
You ask some questions that my brothers and I ponder every once in a while. We catch up with some of our friends, and hear what they are doing and approximately what they make, and we wonder how in the hell they can afford to live in the area.
The biggest difference, and based off of what I have seen you post here, I expect this is true of you as well, we believe in paying cash for what we buy (houses are the only thing we have loans on). The rest of the world believes in making the minimum payment each month, for the length of the loan, or longer.
I was talking with one of the younger (I'm only early 30's, but he's early 20's) guys at my church a couple weeks ago, and the younger generation really has no idea how to live within their means. They live paycheck to paycheck, with little to now savings, and darn near everything on credit. They manage to lead a pretty successful looking life, from the outside, but if one thing goes awry, they are in hard times quick.
As an interesting tidbit, I got told to take a time management class back in 2007-8 (my manager thought I was wasting time and working over time just for the hours, after the class she "followed" me for a week and then apologized when she realized that I just had too much going on... Being the entirety of the firmware test department for an electronics manufacturer meant lots of work time). During that class, the instructor showed us an article from Forbes or a similar magazine, that asserted that less than 10% of the American populace could get their hands on $5000 in cash in less than 72 hours. I'd be willing to bet that less than 10% of the local Colorado populace can get their hands on $1000 in cash in 72 hours.
As for what I meant by the "strength of the local economy", I was speaking about several things.
The tech market is growing in CO. Has been for a while, but with Google pouring $100 million into the area for it's first phase construction in Boulder, there is a lot of interest/growth coming on the heels of it.
Despite my dislike for it, the marijuana market is driving things up locally. There is a tremendous amount of money in that world, and in the usually idiotic old cliche, a rising tide floats all boats.
Those who are motivated and want to, are finding a path towards debt free life with the rise in the real estate market. The current proposed sale price of my house (first house we have owned) is now more than 2x what I paid for it. We will be selling this year and buying/building with the equity and our savings.
O/G is pulled way back, however there are still a LOT of folks that are making good money in that world. The downturn is directly affecting the business that my brothers and I own, but we are finding other projects and markets to get into instead of O/G. We maintain our presence and a couple customers, but we don't expect a lot of our revenue to come from there.
Things are going well here right now for most people.
I guess I can answer for the so called "local economy."
Pot.... [ROFL2]
Grant H.
04-21-2016, 21:51
I hear you. I do have to say though the first indicator for me that there is a bubble is when k hear so many people saying "there is no bubble." CO has a lot going for it but I saw this first hand back in CA. I sill have property there. The reality is we are by my definition in a bubble. That is, when real estate costs significantly outpace wage growth. In the early 1980s-2000 it took an average 23% of a CO residents income to pay for housing. Now it takes 35%. I have no doubt we are In a bubble. That is an unsustainable situation that will eventually reach equilibrium one way or another.
I don't necessarily disagree that we are in a "bubble", but I don't believe we will see it burst like we did in 2008. Not without a global economy collapse.
I was sincerely concerned that we were just waiting for the commercial real estate bubble of bad loans to burst, until the weed market EXPLODED! Now I don't think we will see the same bubble burst that occurred in 2008 for the residential market. They are so willing to pay high prices for places to grow, that the commercial real estate market is booming now. Several people that I know are looking for industrial space, and the prices they are being asked to pay to compete with the weed growers are unbelievable.
Great-Kazoo
04-21-2016, 22:27
I guess I can answer for the so called "local economy."
Pot.... [ROFL2]
To a point, yes. However the number of homes being built, far outpaces the number of dispensary's, grow operations etc.
I know O&G is barely staying afloat. the smaller companies are either hanging on by a thread or closing shop.
Drove around today looking for building sites. A good portion of places called said they were"tendering" offers. WTF, it's land not a sothbey's auction.
Anyway. "We've" seen it before, this rise in demand outpacing supply. To me that's a bubble.
Madeinhb
04-21-2016, 22:46
Exactly what is, The Strength of the Local Economy?
My cousin and I were discussing this today.
How the hell does someone relocating afford rent, let alone a house? I doubt every business in CO is paying $15 - 30 hourly. I also wonder how the hell someone can put down as much as our house cost 20+ years ago. AND afford a $1500 - 2500 monthly mortgage.
How do you new[er] home buyers do it? Granted there's the east coast, sold their home for $3-500K buyer, but everyone? We're perplexed how people are moving in to HOMES FROM THE MID $200'S Horton builders dream.
As more people move here, it drives up salaries. Companies can pay less but they will get crappy employees. The people who know they have the skills and all that- can ask for more.
It really sucks for people like me. Been busting my ass off for over a decade ( I'm 29) wasn't super smart with my money in my younger days and it was not nice to my credit score I but have made a complete turn around in the last 4 years
And I am now in a decent position to buy. I Can afford 1200 a month in mortgage quite easily have 10% down and have less than 12k in debt to my name 9k is student loans no credit card debt and a car payment
there is squat within 20 miles of where i work for under 250k
if there is it needs so much work it's unlivable or is gone within a day for an over asking price CASH offer.
It really sucks for people like me. Been busting my ass off for over a decade ( I'm 29) wasn't super smart with my money in my younger days and it was not nice to my credit score I but have made a complete turn around in the last 4 years
And I am now in a decent position to buy. I Can afford 1200 a month in mortgage quite easily have 10% down and have less than 12k in debt to my name 9k is student loans no credit card debt and a car payment
there is squat within 20 miles of where i work for under 250k
if there is it needs so much work it's unlivable or is gone within a day for an over asking price CASH offer.
Zillow thinks my house is worth $220k. Houses that have been remodeled go for around that in my neighborhood.
Zillow thinks my house is worth $220k. Houses that have been remodeled go for around that in my neighborhood.
Zillow is hit and miss with their pricing. They are ok to get a general guesstimate but almost never truly accurate.
Zillow is hit and miss with their pricing. They are ok to get a general guesstimate but almost never truly accurate.
They aren't accurate for my house because mine is not updated. Houses that are updated in the hood sell for about what Zillow says everything is worth.
DireWolf
04-22-2016, 01:31
As more people move here, it drives up salaries. Companies can pay less but they will get crappy employees. The people who know they have the skills and all that- can ask for more.
I don't think this is necessarily the case for many industries (companies willing to pay more) unless you're open to relocate....I have worked for several orgs that actually applied a negative weighting for CO residents - for example, the last company I worked for applied a -20% weight based on region (e.g. same position/level for east/west coast residents paid an avg. 20% higher than for CO residents - within the same company)....
Also, I get recruiters calling/emailing all the time, and the vast majority of CO based companies/positions still seem to be paying way lower than equivalent ones in GA, NY, CA, WA, TX, NC, FL, etc. It almost feels like price-fixing, and I heard somewhere (can't confirm accuracy of this) that many local orgs stick to compensation "guidelines" from MSEC (mountain states employers council), and rarely - if ever - deviate from that....
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Madeinhb
04-22-2016, 06:47
I don't think this is necessarily the case for many industries (companies willing to pay more) unless you're open to relocate....I have worked for several orgs that actually applied a negative weighting for CO residents - for example, the last company I worked for applied a -20% weight based on region (e.g. same position/level for east/west coast residents paid an avg. 20% higher than for CO residents - within the same company)....
Also, I get recruiters calling/emailing all the time, and the vast majority of CO based companies/positions still seem to be paying way lower than equivalent ones in GA, NY, CA, WA, TX, NC, FL, etc. It almost feels like price-fixing, and I heard somewhere (can't confirm accuracy of this) that many local orgs stick to compensation "guidelines" from MSEC (mountain states employers council), and rarely - if ever - deviate from that....
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Well CO will get paid less then most of those. CA and NY are still way more expensive than here. I get paid more here in CO than I did in CA. In CA, there are so many people, that it is extremely hard to negotiate salary. When I decided to move here - it was much easier. Now granted, not all companies are the same. I was just talking in general terms.
Aloha_Shooter
04-22-2016, 08:08
It almost feels like price-fixing, and I heard somewhere (can't confirm accuracy of this) that many local orgs stick to compensation "guidelines" from MSEC (mountain states employers council), and rarely - if ever - deviate from that....
It's not so much price-fixing as having a third-party "standard" to fall back on makes the salary negotiation more impersonal. There's less chance someone will be able to claim they were offered a lower salary due to bias when the company can point to the third party guidelines. It also gives them the freedom to deviate when needed (e.g., extraordinary demand for a particular specialized skill or person) because they are "guidelines". My company uses target points based on comparable pay for equivalent positions to allocate raises. If you're earning above the salary target point, you better be performing above the performance target point (based on supervisor ratings) or no payraise for you ...
Jlorenzo
04-22-2016, 08:37
I am currently busting my ass to get my reality license. Just hoping its not like it was selling cars, having to take peoples heads of financially. I won't do that anymore.
It is opposite for me.
It is much more difficult for me to find a decent paying job here than CA.
Maybe I am in the wrong ind.
I sure am not going to a place like CA, NY, MA , or DC.
Aloha_Shooter
04-22-2016, 08:54
MrPrena, what do you consider "decent paying"? I could make a lot more in CA or MA or DC but I'd be paying more too -- more taxes, more for food, more for gas, more gas burnt while sitting in parking lots mislabeled "highways" and "interstates", more for decent housing (if you can even find it), etc. They could give me a huge raise and I'd still lose in net income and quality of life by moving to CA or MA or DC.
MrPrena, what do you consider "decent paying"? I could make a lot more in CA or MA or DC but I'd be paying more too -- more taxes, more for food, more for gas, more gas burnt while sitting in parking lots mislabeled "highways" and "interstates", more for decent housing (if you can even find it), etc. They could give me a huge raise and I'd still lose in net income and quality of life by moving to CA or MA or DC.
Yup. That is why I a m avoiding those places.
Still I cannot fid a job which pays 30 cents on a dollar.
It is not because the cost of living.
HoneyBadger
04-22-2016, 09:40
My last job has already lost some people that they brought in from Wyoming due to the living expenses. They went from making maybe $12/hr to closer to $18/hr ($36,000 salary), BUT the taxes and housing was so much more expensive that they couldn't swing it and ran back home.
Yeah... if your mortgage is more than 1/4 of your take home pay, you're asking for trouble. Our mortgage is a little less than that, but we had to work hard to slim down other areas of the budget
I asked one of my neighbors who is a real estate agent with over 30 years in the local market how anyone affords buying a house here now. He said "they buy it 20 years ago".
I think too many people expect too much house for their first purchase; I know I did. You see the house your parents live in after years of trading up through equity, learning to manage money, general life lessons, etc. Then you move out and have a crappy job, no savings, consumer debt, etc and of course everything you look at will be WAY o5r of your budget.
When we first started looking for houses, I felt I needed at LEAST a basement and a two car garage. Now I have neither, but have a mortgage that is 2/3 of what the house would rent for, a solid 40k in equity after only three years (Zillow thinks it's 90k lol), no car payments, etc. My house is half the size I thought I needed, needs some work, and wouldn't impress anyone (assuming I'd let anyone inside); but I'd rather be in this position than living with roommates because I can't afford what "want." On top of all that, I'm finding that we have at least two rooms that we don't even use (living room and bedroom) because they are just full of "stuff" we've collected over the years that we also don't even use.
tl;dr there is a pretty large gap between what people THINK they need or should have, and what they actually need, can afford, and as a result people spend way too much of their lives in a holding pattern until they wake up and accept reality.
tl;dr there is a pretty large gap between what people THINK they need or should have, and what they actually need
You're right. But Madison Ave would have us believe otherwise.
HoneyBadger
04-24-2016, 09:38
Zillow thinks my house is worth $220k. Houses that have been remodeled go for around that in my neighborhood.
Zillow is hit and miss with their pricing. They are ok to get a general guesstimate but almost never truly accurate.
This^ Zillow thinks my house is worth more than $400k! [ROFL1]
gnihcraes
04-24-2016, 09:47
friend of mine told me he was selling and moving last night.
Asking $465k. Three lots, decent house and garage. I'm shocked at what he's asking. It will be interesting to see if it sells.
http://www.remax.com/realestatehomesforsale/4879-chase-street-denver-co-80212-gid500012469553.html
HoneyBadger
04-24-2016, 09:50
I think too many people expect too much house for their first purchase; I know I did. You see the house your parents live in after years of trading up through equity, learning to manage money, general life lessons, etc. Then you move out and have a crappy job, no savings, consumer debt, etc and of course everything you look at will be WAY out of your budget.
tl;dr there is a pretty large gap between what people THINK they need or should have, and what they actually need, can afford, and as a result people spend way too much of their lives in a holding pattern until they wake up and accept reality.
Yep. The HoneyBadgers definitely made this mistake. Both sets of parents did well and live very comfortably now, but we had no perspective on what sort of house they had when they were in their 20s. We bought a much nicer house than we should have.
friend of mine told me he was selling and moving last night.
Asking $465k. Three lots, decent house and garage. I'm shocked at what he's asking. It will be interesting to see if it sells.
http://www.remax.com/realestatehomesforsale/4879-chase-street-denver-co-80212-gid500012469553.html
Your friend is off his freaking rocker! It's a 90 year old house that needs some major updating. Zillow showed a zestimate of $220k just 5 years ago... What a crazy world.
gnihcraes
04-24-2016, 12:00
Yep. The HoneyBadgers definitely made this mistake. Both sets of parents did well and live very comfortably now, but we had no perspective on what sort of house they had when they were in their 20s. We bought a much nicer house than we should have.
Your friend is off his freaking rocker! It's a 90 year old house that needs some major updating. Zillow showed a zestimate of $220k just 5 years ago... What a crazy world.
I think it was 1993 when we talked to our bank about a home loan. They approved us for like $250k! What the heck! No way can we afford to buy something like that with our new lives and careers. Found a decent small fixer upper with land for 70k. Same monthly as our apartment and utilities were cheaper. No crappy shared walls. Two kids later and we're still here. Small house isn't too bad, why people want the mansion size place for a just a few people is crazy. (we did build on and add a master bath etc) but still we're only <1000sqft.
Friend; well, yes, I thought so too. The description though of that house, it's actually three lots. L41-44. So the market up in that corner of town, they will probably be able to sell to some developer type and build three yuppie mansions. (same thing they did next to me recently)
Madeinhb
04-24-2016, 12:17
I think it was 1993 when we talked to our bank about a home loan. They approved us for like $250k! What the heck! No way can we afford to buy something like that with our new lives and careers. Found a decent small fixer upper with land for 70k. Same monthly as our apartment and utilities were cheaper. No crappy shared walls. Two kids later and we're still here. Small house isn't too bad, why people want the mansion size place for a just a few people is crazy. (we did build on and add a master bath etc) but still we're only <1000sqft.
Friend; well, yes, I thought so too. The description though of that house, it's actually three lots. L41-44. So the market up in that corner of town, they will probably be able to sell to some developer type and build three yuppie mansions. (same thing they did next to me recently)
It has to do with that Keeping up with the Jones' mentality that is on TV. My wife and I got an OK Townhouse a year ago. It's just the two of us. No kids. I'm 36 and spent most of time driving and Travelling. I'd rather spent more on a really nice car than be house poor.
Friend; well, yes, I thought so too. The description though of that house, it's actually three lots. L41-44. So the market up in that corner of town, they will probably be able to sell to some developer type and build three yuppie mansions. (same thing they did next to me recently)
Is there one property on the three lots? How realistic would it be to raze the current property and build two 4-plexes, or add a duplex to each of the existing lots?
Aloha_Shooter
04-24-2016, 12:57
Yep. The HoneyBadgers definitely made this mistake. Both sets of parents did well and live very comfortably now, but we had no perspective on what sort of house they had when they were in their 20s. We bought a much nicer house than we should have.
I always found that you couldn't go wrong if you stuck with housing that fell within the BAH provided by the AF. DoD sets the BAH assuming about 15% of your costs will be out-of-pocket anyway. Staying at or under your BAH means you won't have as nice a property as some of your peers but it frees up cash for your long term investments.
I will probably be buying a place shortly. I have looked and boy did we buy this house at the right time, I'm looking at condos now and they are going for what I paid for my current house (4bdrm, 3.25bath, finished basement). It sucks the market is so outrageous if I could only move to a cheaper state....
airborneranger
04-25-2016, 13:02
My house in the Springs will be going on the market in about a week or so. I bought it back in 08 when the market was tanking, so I got a deal on it. I was going to sell in '13 but I would have had to brought too much to the table. Now it appears that I will be able to sell it quickly and have a little cash left over. :)
Great-Kazoo
04-25-2016, 13:42
Is there one property on the three lots? How realistic would it be to raze the current property and build two 4-plexes, or add a duplex to each of the existing lots?
They can (after zoning change) have 3 lots with some of those "designer" hipster tiny homes for $$$. IMO $450K is not out of line for the home & lots. OR buy the package, build home on the open lots, sell for $300 k + Once that sells flip the existing home for $2 to low 300K and call it good.
The house next door to my rental house (my first house) was purchased in August 2014 for $295k. They completely scraped it and put up a two story house with a basement. The same house design is used on at least 4 other houses in the the Berekley neighborhood. The house sold for $862k in January. They even put a balcony on the back of the second story so they can check to see what my tenants are doing in the back yard. It's pretty crazy.
The house across the street sold about 2 months ago for $355k after being listed at $375k in November. I believe it's going to get scraped as well, otherwise the top is getting popped.
I don't think the house on listed for $465k on Chase street will go for more than $400k, but you never know!
kawiracer14
04-25-2016, 14:27
The house next door to my rental house (my first house) was purchased in August 2014 for $295k. They completely scraped it and put up a two story house with a basement. The same house design is used on at least 4 other houses in the the Berekley neighborhood. The house sold for $862k in January. They even put a balcony on the back of the second story so they can check to see what my tenants are doing in the back yard. It's pretty crazy.
The house across the street sold about 2 months ago for $355k after being listed at $375k in November. I believe it's going to get scraped as well, otherwise the top is getting popped.
I don't think the house on listed for $465k on Chase street will go for more than $400k, but you never know!
Edgewater is getting equally as crazy. Lots of monstrosities that don't fit at all in a neighborhood of single story homes. Prices are absolutely insane. The girlfriend and I will hope for prices to come down in the next couple years while we save for a down payment, but not expecting to be able to get anything less than 1/2 Mil.
I think too many people expect too much house for their first purchase; I know I did. You see the house your parents live in after years of trading up through equity, learning to manage money, general life lessons, etc. Then you move out and have a crappy job, no savings, consumer debt, etc and of course everything you look at will be WAY o5r of your budget.
When we first started looking for houses, I felt I needed at LEAST a basement and a two car garage. Now I have neither, but have a mortgage that is 2/3 of what the house would rent for, a solid 40k in equity after only three years (Zillow thinks it's 90k lol), no car payments, etc. My house is half the size I thought I needed, needs some work, and wouldn't impress anyone (assuming I'd let anyone inside); but I'd rather be in this position than living with roommates because I can't afford what "want." On top of all that, I'm finding that we have at least two rooms that we don't even use (living room and bedroom) because they are just full of "stuff" we've collected over the years that we also don't even use.
tl;dr there is a pretty large gap between what people THINK they need or should have, and what they actually need, can afford, and as a result people spend way too much of their lives in a holding pattern until they wake up and accept reality.
This. It seems a lot of first time buyers want their dream home right off the bat. Not only is that expensive to purchase, but it's harder to maintain. Like a high end car, a bigger/nicer home comes with higher maintenance/upgrade costs.
My first home was a duplex, ranch walkout, 950 sq ft above ground. Nothing crazy but it was affordable and a great starter home. Wife and I renovated it ourselves for decently cheap. We learned how to do that stuff on a home that didn't necessarily require top grade finishes. Ended up renting that home out when we bought a more traditional home (2 story, 1500 sq ft, single family). Sold that home (during this thread) after 3 years to finally get our dream home. Just closed on my rental home last week and will now be debt free, minus the house. But this is after being in real estate for 13 years or so, doing lots of work to both homes, and buying/selling at the right time. it paid off but it wasnt easy to get here.
My first home wasn't impressive at all but it was what worked for me. It sold for $230k (listed for $215k) and was the cheapest listing in my area. Sold after one open house. The market will probably climb more but I didn't want to risk a bubble pop so I cashed out while I could.
I agree for a first home people need to be realistic. However, if you could buy a few years ago it was worth it to pay a little more if you planned on staying long term. Because rates were so low we bought land and built. The cost to build to our specs was the same as buying a house of like size, we just had to pay for the land as extra. 3 percent interest rates are crazy and to know you have that locked for 30 years it's worth it to purchase a little higher than normal. They have already appraised our house at 250k over what we paid 2 years ago. We plan to live her until retirement though. 1.5 acres and plenty of room for a family and even a separate room and bath if a family or friend needs a place to stay for a while.
Now that the market is what it is you have to be careful, although rates are still low. But the prices have become insane. There's an old house on the end of our block that needs some upgrading and it's selling for more than what we paid to build brand new. It's crazy.
Cars is the thing I don't understand. They depreciate quick, are expensive to maintain and still get you from A to B. Why spend so much on a new one? Makes no sense to me. Who cares if it has power and acceleration, how often do you get to legally utilize it to its potential?
Madeinhb
04-26-2016, 10:22
It depends. If someone wants their dream home - nothing wrong with buying it. Some people don't like the idea of buying, paying 5-10 years and starting over. Some want their perfect house so that they can live there, pay it off and don't have to worry later in life.
Shitty houses are what's selling g because those owners are trying to capitalize on the demand for House where supply is low. People will buy houses just to be able to have one and will spend money to fix it up.
rockhound
04-26-2016, 17:52
I am a buyer's agent, and the truth is it is not a great time to buy. If you have crazy equity on your current home and can reinvest that into your new home in truth it is a wash. Yes you are paying a premium for your new home, but you sold your existing for the same premium. If you have crazy equity and have the ability to move to a different state and make a living it is a great time to sell. If you are coming here and thinking you will score a good deal on home in Colorado, you are dreaming. And any agent that tells you you will have equity in the next year or two or five is just blowing sunshine. In reality no one knows and to say they know what the market will be like even as far out as the next 6 months is BS. I can make an educated guess as to what will happen, but in reality no one truly knows. Make the best decision that works for your current and foreseeable future and your family and gives you the best outcome for your current finances.
I understand that people want or need to buy a home because they have to or want to move here and it is still a better investment than renting at the even more inflated rental rates, but it is not the best time to be buying compared to 2008-2009.
My very best advice is not to overspend, live within your means. If you have 200K to put down cause you just sold your existing home and cashed in on your new found equity. Don't put all of it into the new home, put half in the bank and put less down on the new house. If the market goes to hell and you lose all the equity in the new house you might still be upside down in the house, but you will be upside down in the house and still have 100K in the bank.
Not_A_Llama
04-28-2016, 12:27
I feel like the one real play is that condos are going to shit the bed downtown, and maybe in the metro area.
With the horizon on the builder defects law coming ever-closer, you can be assured of a maximum of 6 years before we're positively *flooded* with units for sale.
On top of that, legislation constantly threatens to remove that provision, in the name of "affordability".
I'd love to pick up a bunch of condos as rentals.
The condo construction defects law is bullshit. Contractors won't build them until that changes. The lawsuits were out of hand.
I I believe the area is at or near a peak price wise.
I won't touch condos as rentals. Hoa, trailer park fees and condo fees are not something I will ever pay.
If you want some fun numbers check out the maintenance fees for time shares.
Not_A_Llama
04-28-2016, 15:51
The condo construction defects law is bullshit. Contractors won't build them until that changes. The lawsuits were out of hand.
I I believe the area is at or near a peak price wise.
Contractors are building plenty of condos. They're just running them as apartments until the 6 year liability horizon ends, then converting. The new build ratio at one point was something like 70:1.
Firehaus
04-28-2016, 17:35
Most new apartment builders are building to condo spec with the plan of selling them to another entity who will sell them as condos in 7 years adding an additional layer of protection, unless the defect law is changed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I work downtown and they are building apartments/ condos in every possible lot by union station. Next place will be Elitches more profit than an amusement park.
Our neighbors bought the house next door at the tail end of September of 2013 for $297K. They had to move because of the husband's new job, so they put it up for sale. Within an hour, it was sold for $385,500 (a little over asking price.) I don't even know what to think.
Except maybe to refinance.
Firehaus
06-03-2016, 23:35
A good read on metro housing.
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/19/colorado-population-growth-far-outstripped-new-housing-census-says/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HoneyBadger
06-23-2016, 11:52
Speaking of real estate...
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_30037774/greener-pastures-beckon-some-beleaguered-residents
Some worthwhile quotes:
A growing number of Bay Area residents -- besieged by home prices, worsening traffic, high taxes and a generally more expensive cost of living -- believe life would be better just about anywhere else but here.
"California has seen negative outward migration to other states for 22 of the last 25 years."
A recent poll revealed that an unsettling sense of yearning has descended on people in the Bay Area: About one-third of those surveyed by the Bay Area Council say they would like to exit the nine-county region sometime soon.
"They are tired of the expense of living here. They are tired of the state of California and the endless taxes here," said Scott McElfresh, a certified moving consultant. "People are getting soaked every time they turn around."
Thomas Norman, of San Francisco, said he and his wife, Patricia, are seriously considering leaving the Bay Area. They have actively scouted for houses in the Rocky Mountains region, including a trip to Colorado to look for prospective homes.
"You can't get ahead," Eaton said. "It's more than the cost of living; it's the high taxes."
But then the articles turns and blames capitalism for its problems: [facepalm]
Some experts believe the boom in the Bay Area has exacerbated the problem of income inequality and the resentment that can accompany that economic reality.
"There is a declining middle class in the Bay Area," said Christopher Hoene, executive director of the California Budget & Policy Center, a research group that recently completed a study about income inequality in Silicon Valley. "Widening income inequality can create polarization socially and economically."
Some of the comments on the article are spot-on:
Why no mention of the huge concentration of foreign H-1B visa workers in the Bay area, nor any mention of the millions upon millions of illegal aliens? These are two of the leading factors that have made housing less available and much more expensive, along with stagnating wages and an ever increasing tax burden being foisted on Californian's to pay for the takeover of their state by foreigners whom liberals have rolled out the red carpet for.
Heck, just enforcing the laws and deporting the millions of illegals driving on California roads would put a huge dent in the unbearable gridlock, while simultaneously freeing up housing - not to mention the huge tax burden that would be lifted from the shoulders of citizens.
It's no surprise that more people are leaving than coming in. Liberals have turned the entire state into a high priced cesspool that resembles 3rd world Mexico.
friend of mine told me he was selling and moving last night.
Asking $465k. Three lots, decent house and garage. I'm shocked at what he's asking. It will be interesting to see if it sells.
http://www.remax.com/realestatehomesforsale/4879-chase-street-denver-co-80212-gid500012469553.html
Double the price, cut the lot size in half, make it about 25 years older, and drop that house in Boulder - it'll be sold in under an hour.
kawiracer14
06-23-2016, 14:28
Double the price, cut the lot size in half, make it about 25 years older, and drop that house in Boulder - it'll be sold in under an hour.
Looks like hes dropped the price a total of 35 grand. I would guess it sells in the high 300s.
Great-Kazoo
06-23-2016, 14:38
Looks like hes dropped the price a total of 35 grand. I would guess it sells in the high 300s.
He should hold @ $425 K. Then let the offers come in a few days. He'd probably end up in that $475 K area.
Kid behind us listed @ $299 K, sold for $305 K. There was a line of people waiting on the sidewalk 1hr before the open house. We'll list ours @ $300 K and see what happens.
kawiracer14
06-23-2016, 14:42
He should hold @ $425 K. Then let the offers come in a few days. He'd probably end up in that $475 K area.
Kid behind us listed @ $299 K, sold for $305 K. There was a line of people waiting on the sidewalk 1hr before the open house. We'll list ours @ $300 K and see what happens.
Its on at 430k now and it's been on the market 69 days... it ain't selling at $475.
Homes under $400k are still the "hot spot".
Do not Buy in a sellers market and do not sell in a buyers market.
We're in a sellers market right now, take my advice and thank me in 3 or 4 years. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kawiracer14
06-23-2016, 15:31
Do not Buy in a sellers market and do not sell in a buyers market.
We're in a sellers market right now, take my advice and thank me in 3 or 4 years. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What should I do when it's still a Sellers Market in 3 or 4 years?
Grant H.
06-23-2016, 16:43
Do not Buy in a sellers market and do not sell in a buyers market.
We're in a sellers market right now, take my advice and thank me in 3 or 4 years. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In theory what you are saying makes sense. In practice, it will never work as well as you might hope it will.
Especially considering current interest rates, and what rent is currently, buying now isn't a bad idea. Especially not since the interest rates are going to have to rise, and probably sky rocket when they do rise. Locking something in the 2-3% range will save a ton of money over waiting and buying a house when interest rates are likely back in the 5-10% range.
The problem is that sure you can sell at your inflated price and make some cash but you then still need to buy a new place which will be at an equally if not more inflated price.. Are you still making money when you look 10, 15, 20, 30 years down the road?
Agree, and unless you change markets, like move somewhere else, the net effect will be a loss, not a gain just switching houses in a hot market.
Great-Kazoo
06-23-2016, 16:57
Do not Buy in a sellers market and do not sell in a buyers market.
We're in a sellers market right now, take my advice and thank me in 3 or 4 years. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sound advice, in normal markets. However the population is expected to increase along the front range another 2-3 million by 2020. Being from NY (SURPRISE) Our place went for $70K, 30+ yrs ago. The second owners sold it for $200 K 15 yrs ago. Same house now sits @ just under $500K FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND for an 800 sq ft home [facepalm] Keeping in mind the only place to build in that part of the tri-state area is UP. There's no land available. So prices keep climbing.
Here in CO. I see the same thing. Yes there's land. BUT............................ The demand has outpaced the availability of homes. If there's a demand take their money. Granted the ceiling has to be reached sooner or later.
OR that false economy bubble will break. When it does. Oh well might as roll another joint. Cause they're the only ones with cash.
What should I do when it's still a Sellers Market in 3 or 4 years?
make more profit.
Even if the bubbles pops, you just have to be able to hold it a little longer. I bet people today would love to pay the prices from the 06/07 bubble.
I lived in Kalifornia in 2005. I remember people saying that if you couldn't afford a home at that time you better buy because you'll never be able to afford to buy if you wait.. That theory worked out well considering everyone I knew who bought between 05-07 was in foreclosure after 08.
You can read all the articles and speculators points that are intended to do one thing and one thing alone, drive prices up and bring buyers in. Or... You can understand that real estate is cyclical.
Rent prices are not bad considering the cost to rent something is actually Lower than the mortgage payment would be if you bought the same place right now. If you look at cost of ownership
I don't buy in to 10% interest rates. The government has actually been playing with negative interest rates and some countries are already using them. 5% maybe 6% is likely going to be the cap on interest rates going up, the market will take a shit and we'll see historically low interest rates again.
It's all cyclical. You don't need a crystal ball, you just need to look at history and you can tell what will happen in the future.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The problem with that last bubble was sub prime loans and balloning ARM loans. If you get a quality loan, you shouldn't be in foreclosure a year later just because the market tanks (unless something was forcing you to move and sell).
Also, rent prices are not cheaper than buying. Single family homes in my area are 2200+ per month for a 3 bedroom basic home. Apartments range from $1200 for a 700 sq foot one bedroom to $1900 for a 1300 sq foot 3 bedroom. Oh yeah, and that doesn't include a garage.
I lived in Kalifornia in 2005. I remember people saying that if you couldn't afford a home at that time you better buy because you'll never be able to afford to buy if you wait.. That theory worked out well considering everyone I knew who bought between 05-07 was in foreclosure after 08.
You can read all the articles and speculators points that are intended to do one thing and one thing alone, drive prices up and bring buyers in. Or... You can understand that real estate is cyclical.
Rent prices are not bad considering the cost to rent something is actually Lower than the mortgage payment would be if you bought the same place right now. If you look at cost of ownership
I don't buy in to 10% interest rates. The government has actually been playing with negative interest rates and some countries are already using them. 5% maybe 6% is likely going to be the cap on interest rates going up, the market will take a shit and we'll see historically low interest rates again.
It's all cyclical. You don't need a crystal ball, you just need to look at history and you can tell what will happen in the future.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I disagree with most every opinion on real estate you just expressed.
All I want is to mow my own lawn.
When I first started looking for a house 18-24 months ago my mortgage budget was under a thousand (<20% of gross)
Found some and passed that currently would love to have another shot at. Found some that needed way to much work that resold in 6 months for 100k more than initial listing its brutal out there
I am now considering figuring out the logistics of a 1500 dollar mortgage of the same exact houses (2 bed room 1 bath Need work in the same neighborhoods)
overheard or saw this on the internet recently
when is the best time to buy a house for equity
25 years ago
Something to ponder over in the mean time.
http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/
http://jlcollinsnh.com/2012/02/23/rent-v-owning-your-home-opportunity-cost-and-running-some-numbers/
NFATrustGuy
06-24-2016, 07:42
*Can* a person concoct a scenerio where renting is less expensive than owning? Sure. Just use worst case facts... MUST buy in a hot market. MUST sell in a downturn. Gangs move into the neighborhood. Half the homes in the neighborhood sell via foreclosure. Etc. etc.
Yes, it's still anecdotal, but I've bought and sold 5 homes since 1992 and I've made money on each one of them. Also, the mortgage payment and upkeep expenses were less than renting the same home would have been in each case.
Could I rent a 1 bedroom apartment for less than my current home costs me? Sure, but that's not how I want to live, and it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples because I don't live in a 1 bedroom home.
We're all wary of experiencing another "housing bubble," but we should remember what brought about the original housing bubble and decide if a similar situation exists today. The problem wasn't just that housing prices escalated quickly, it was *why* housing prices escalated. In simple terms, it was because getting a loan was too easy.
The easy availability of mortgage loans was tantamount to giving a 15 year old girl a charge card with a zero balance and a $30k spending limit. Most teenagers in that situation would max the card out within weeks and then struggle forever to pay it off. What's more, they'd develop a sense of entitlement to the artificial lifestyle enhancement the "easy money" allowed them to enjoy. Mortgages leading up to the housing bubble were too easy. Prices were driven up as a result. People were buying houses with fake buying power.
In the current situation, lending guidelines are more traditional. While lending ratios are relaxed from 1992 levels when the mortgage PITI payment couldn't exceed 28% of total gross monthly income with total debts no more than 36%, there are still ratios that must be met (and proven/verified) today, This wasn't the case in the free lending days leading up to the bubble. When people buy a house today, they must meet guidelines that didn't exist (or weren't enforced) in the free lending years.
I'm convinced that our census numbers here on the Colorado front range will continue to rise. I'm sure builders will eventually ramp up construction to meet demand. Price will eventually settle in to a state of equilibrium,, but it'll still be at a higher level than what it is today. Costs of construction will continue to rise as a result of increased taxation, increased materials, increased labor costs, etc.
I think our biggest threat is the continually-increasing **RATE** of taxation. If a tax rate equal to 1/2% of total value was sufficient to fund the government when the house was worth $220k in 1998, that same 1/2% rate should still be sufficient to fund government when the house is worth $420 in 2016.
I close on my new house in mid-July. :-)
Great-Kazoo
06-24-2016, 08:05
Could I rent a 1 bedroom apartment for less than my current home costs me? Sure, but that's not how I want to live, and it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples because I don't live in a 1 bedroom home.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another thing to consider with the Rent vs Own scenario. Your rent is governed by the market AND whim of the landlord. Not to mention the usual "Inspection" clause a lot have in the lease. that means no matter what you do, it's not yours. You can be asked to leave at the end of lease (6-12 months later) Have unnecessary "inspections" from the landlord and times not convenient to you. OR.............. after you're back from work or vacation. If you want to live somewhere that other people have access to, legally. Rent.
Yes it cost more (up front) to buy a home. HOWEVER once the closing is done, it's yours. No more invasive landlord, having to worry if they're going to raise the rent (again) or ask you to leave at end of lease. Want pets, no problem.
If you're buying a house purely as an investment, then sure, there are other investment vehicles that are better. But you also get a lot of soft benefits, of which Kazoo pointed out several.
Partway down the page that Irving linked to, the author highlighted this comment that makes two really great points:
[...] Now, here is where my post really won’t make a lot of sense. While a house is a terrible investment, I own a house and recommend other people do so as well. Why? Not because the house is a great investment, but because the mortgage is a great way to borrow money due to all the government subsidies. Having a mortgage is a great way to short the US dollar because of the long maturity and low rates you can borrow at. I make sure to constantly take all of the equity out. If there was some way to borrow $400,000 at 3% for 30 years and buy stocks with the money I would much rather do that, but because our society has decided that homes are the “chosen” asset class and distorts the market by redirecting resources into mortgages it makes sense to buy a home. I would never even consider buy a home with my own money, but hey, if the US taxpayer and a bank is dumb enough to loan me several hundred grand at 3% for 30 years and give me a tax deduction sure why the hell not.
I do think a lot of homeowners rode the wave of 30 years of falling interest rates… that dynamic is going to change as rates have not risen in a generation. The returns of housing in the future will be nowhere near what they were in a falling rate environment and a lot of speculators are going to learn that the hard way. Potential homebuyers simply won’t be able to pay anywhere near today’s housing prices if rates were to go to from 3% to a more historical average of 7%. Even at today’s ultra low rates the home ownership rate is declining rapidly.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that rates will go back to 7% anytime soon, but it's worth considering.
Although I bought my house. I do not own a home. I don't have a deed yet.
We bought a house around late 2008 (near or at dip) because I am so sick and tired of rise in rent. We bought the house not to just hedge against inflation, but against the rent cost.
We did good. It only went up about $100/mo for ~8 years due to taxes.
Great-Kazoo
06-24-2016, 13:42
If you're buying a house purely as an investment, then sure, there are other investment vehicles that are better. But you also get a lot of soft benefits, of which Kazoo pointed out several.
Partway down the page that Irving linked to, the author highlighted this comment that makes two really great points:
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that rates will go back to 7% anytime soon, but it's worth considering.
Our first homes interest rate was 13%, in 80. Granted we only needed $2500 down for a $28 K home.
Bump. Just curious how the market is? Anyone buying/selling? Ive been doing a LOT of refi's at my work lately. People scrambling before the end of the year. Once these elections are over, I think we see the reality of the economy/market.
Prices are still extremely inflated. I keep waiting to look at this thread hoping to see some one in the know saying the sky is falling and it's all crashing down so I can finally buy a house
My wife and I bought recently. We're in our lower 30s and this is our first house. Did we buy at a bad time? Don't care. We found a house in a great neighborhood that we love, within our budget, and we have stable careers. Knock on wood but we plan on being here for a long time.
Unfortunately, so many people are moving to Denver, and it's still so expensive to live here, that the market as far away as Cheyenne is still increasing. I was talking to a guy who bought a place in Cheyenne two weeks ago. It's 1,300 sq/ft house (plus finished basement for a total of 2,600 sq/ft) on 6 acres for $217,000. Pretty sure my house is worth that right now, but as usual, I'm a bit behind the curve and not ready to make that jump.
kawiracer14
10-24-2016, 12:37
Went to some open houses this weekend and one of the Realtors said that the last two months have been extremely slow and people are pricing their houses way too high so they aren't selling or the aren't appraising anywhere near the selling cost so people end up not buying.
That's what I've heard, Kawi. Things are slowing down a little and houses are sitting for 30 days on average compared to what, 24 hours? Someone I know in the real estate side of things said they're anticipating a "big correction" next quarter, whatever that means.
That's what I've heard, Kawi. Things are slowing down a little and houses are sitting for 30 days on average compared to what, 24 hours? Someone I know in the real estate side of things said they're anticipating a "big correction" next quarter, whatever that means.
I agree things appear to have plateaued and I hope they may even begin to go down this winter... If CA and other states pass their equivalent of Amendment 64/MJ laws, I believe there will almost certainly be a decline in demand in CO as some people "go home"... come March next year, my wife and I will begin seriously looking again, but not before then.
I also hope many other states legalize.
kawiracer14
10-24-2016, 13:01
I think we are all hoping for legalization so people will leave or at least stop coming. If Mass passes that may keep some of the East Coasters over there.
I don't see prices going down much in the Denver area but one can hope. My wife and I are still a ways from having enough cash for 20% down.
If it's your first home, you rarely need to come up with 20% down. I think it's only 3%.
kawiracer14
10-24-2016, 13:12
If it's your first home, you rarely need to come up with 20% down. I think it's only 3%.
Yeah we certainly don't need to put 20% down, but I would rather not pay PMI or a huge mortgage payment every month.
VA loan yet to be used here. :)
I hear you on that, PMI sucks. We bought our place in 2012 with a first time home buyer program and I was able to refinance and get out from under PMI by 2015. It really helped that I paid more than the minimum and the housing market shot up right after we bought though. Just more food for thought.
My first loan offered a clause where after 3 years you could pay for appraisal and if you were over the 20% mark they'd just drop pmi.
PugnacAutMortem
10-24-2016, 13:29
I think we are all hoping for legalization so people will leave or at least stop coming. If Mass passes that may keep some of the East Coasters over there.
I don't see prices going down much in the Denver area but one can hope. My wife and I are still a ways from having enough cash for 20% down.
You can actually do programs through CHFA that have down payment amounts as low as $1,000. But a standard FHA loan is 3.5% down, but there's a limit on the amount of how much they will loan. It depends on your county but Adams/Arapahoe counties for single family housing is $458,850.
As far as the market, pricing is steady/slightly declining across the Denver Metro area for the 1st time since last year. Any houses under $400k are still moving on average inside of 21 days, but homes above that pricing band are sitting for anywhere from 30 days to 6 months (proportional to how far you go up from $400k, anything over $1 million is in that 6 month bracket). It appears that buyers are finally getting sick of paying so much over asking, which is a welcome change. It still is a STRONG sellers market for now though. For the last 4 years we have had a 10% increase in home values in the springtime when each year everyone in the industry said "it can't possibly go up any further than it already has", so unless some major things change with housing laws around here my guess is that trend will continue.
One thing to keep in mind if anyone on here is thinking about buying in the near future, is interest rates are all but assured to go up Q1 of next year. I've got a great graphic that I can send anyone customized to your potential price range if you want it, and it shows how far your money goes buying now vs buying next year.
Bottom line though, it's still a great market for sellers AND now there are deals to be found for buyers. Even in the lower pricing brackets, there are deals out there and equity is there to be found. I've got TONS of stats and reports that I'd be more than happy to send folks on here if you are curious about the market in general or even as specific as your subdivision. If there's any interest I could set up a monthly market report just for board members as well.
Here's some Denver data:
September active listings buck seasonal slowdown
http://www.denverrealestatewatch.com/2016/10/07/september-active-listings-buck-trend/
http://www.denverrealestatewatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/OCTOBER.DMAR-13.png
The most interesting bit I saw was that typically sellers wait until the spring to cash in on the seasonal buying frenzy. It's possible that with the looming interest rate hike, sellers are hoping to get buyers with more buying power now vs waiting for spring per usual.
If I recall rum line you're not from co. An additional reason for waiting until spring is winter moving
Great-Kazoo
10-24-2016, 14:50
If I recall rum line you're not from co. An additional reason for waiting until spring is winter moving
And school is getting out, very rarely do "families" relocate during the school year.
You're right, I'm one of those dang California transplants. We moved here in January, it worked out pretty good despite there being snow on the ground. It's usually my luck that I've always moved on the hottest day of the month/season, but this time it was nice to not be drenched in sweat at the end of the day. :-)
Interest rates on the rise! Buying power decreasing. It'll be an interesting year.
Post a link please.
Was just hearing a story today about how more luxury apartments were built than there are people able to afford them and that rent prices are dropping in places like New York, and even Texas.
hurley842002
01-03-2017, 14:52
Post a link please.
Was just hearing a story today about how more luxury apartments were built than there are people able to afford them and that rent prices are dropping in places like New York, and even Texas.
Could be some truth to this, we received our notice to renew the lease at our apartment about three months ago, and at that time our rent was scheduled to go up a hundred bucks a month. We ended up renewing, and to our surprise, it was only going to go up twenty a month.
Could be some truth to this, we received our notice to renew the lease at our apartment about three months ago, and at that time our rent was scheduled to go up a hundred bucks a month. We ended up renewing, and to our surprise, it was only going to go up twenty a month.
You should have CheaperThanDirted them and offered them a -$100 increase. See what they say.
---
I like to use http://www.bankrate.com to peek at what rates are doing. I know it's not 100% accurate depending on qualification specifics, but it does appear rates are going up and tested 4.21% last week on a 30 year.
Post a link please.
Was just hearing a story today about how more luxury apartments were built than there are people able to afford them and that rent prices are dropping in places like New York, and even Texas.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/learnvest/2016/12/14/what-the-federal-reserve-interest-rate-hike-really-means-for-your-money/#5f9dcf1b5512
Much as economic analysts had expected, the Federal Reserve announced at the close of its two-day meeting on Wednesday that it was raising the target federal funds rate by a quarter of a percentage point to between 0.5% and 0.75%, marking the first time the Fed has raised rates since December 2015 and only the second time in a decade. The Fed also indicated it expects to make more rate hikes in 2017.
Thanks. Right on time, as we expected.
Some links for you guys:
http://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/libor.aspx
http://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/wall-street-prime-rate.aspx
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/tmubmusd10y?countrycode=bx
Firehaus
01-03-2017, 22:44
Could be some truth to this, we received our notice to renew the lease at our apartment about three months ago, and at that time our rent was scheduled to go up a hundred bucks a month. We ended up renewing, and to our surprise, it was only going to go up twenty a month.
Class A to AAA (1990- present) apartments will be offering flat rent increases and concessions for new leasing. So much is coming online that that market is flat or mildly receding in rents.
House prices should start going more flat as increased interest rates push up monthly payments. Older apartments are still seeing rent increases, but not like a few years ago.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hurley842002
01-03-2017, 23:16
Class A to AAA (1990- present) apartments will be offering flat rent increases and concessions for new leasing. So much is coming online that that market is flat or mildly receding in rents.
House prices should start going more flat as increased interest rates push up monthly payments. Older apartments are still seeing rent increases, but not like a few years ago.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wonder what that means for my 80's apartment lol.
Firehaus
01-03-2017, 23:18
Wonder what that means for my 80's apartment lol.
Depends on how much your paying now and what your renting (example 2bed/1bath).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wonder what that means for my 80's apartment lol.
Depends... do they know about the jacuzzi you installed?
http://www.crystalmadrilejos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Coming+To+America+still.jpg
hurley842002
01-04-2017, 09:48
Depends... do they know about the jacuzzi you installed?
http://www.crystalmadrilejos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Coming+To+America+still.jpg
Haaaa, that was on last night.
Rents in the Springs are up over 10% from 2015. http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/01/denver-colorado-springs-rent/
Firehaus
01-04-2017, 11:29
For an example, I newly refinished 3bed/1 bath unit with washer/dryer hookups at my Lakewood building goes for around $1400/month. Older building built in 1960.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For an example, I newly refinished 3bed/1 bath unit with washer/dryer hookups at my Lakewood building goes for around $1400/month. Older building built in 1960.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow. for a 3/2, 2 story w/ unfinished basement built 3 years ago HOUSE, we pay 1495 per month in COS.
Own or rent?
Rent, through a realty company. I'd imagine mortgage would be what... 850-1k, maybe?
Wow. for a 3/2, 2 story w/ unfinished basement built 3 years ago HOUSE, we pay 1495 per month in COS.
Rent, through a realty company. I'd imagine mortgage would be what... 850-1k, maybe?
That's a pretty good rent payment considering what you have. Is it subsidized by government or anything, special deal for enlisted?
My original loan of $155k with mortgage insurance and everything was right around $1,000. I can't imagine the house you living in now being only worth $155K in this market.
Colorado springs market is MUCH lower than the Denver metro. You can still find homes at $200k and under there.
http://www.recolorado.com/homes-for-sale/1723-Barkley-Road-Colorado-Springs-CO-80906-188731809
http://www.recolorado.com/homes-for-sale/139-Dartmouth-Street-Colorado-Springs-CO-80911-192793562
That's a pretty good rent payment considering what you have. Is it subsidized by government or anything, special deal for enlisted?
My original loan of $155k with mortgage insurance and everything was right around $1,000. I can't imagine the house you living in now being only worth $155K in this market.
No special. Just a place we found on Zillow. I'm no longer in the military and given the BAH (housing allowance) there are no special deals anyway (enlistedmen must find housing within the market at or below BAH or else pay difference out of pocket).
House across the street is for sale at 240k, fairly large back yard. Google mortgage calc says 1135/mo for that.
.455_Hunter
01-04-2017, 12:32
House across the street is for sale at 240k, fairly large back yard. Google mortgage calc says 1135/mo for that.
That what we bought our house for when we lived in Arvada. The payment with property tax and insurance was just under $1500/month at a higher interest rate.
Does the house facing north, south, east or west affect price? Our place faces north.
I'd imagine that if we pay 1495 a month, the mortgage is somewhere around 1k or less. Anyone know the profit for realty companies on rentals?
Does the house facing north, south, east or west affect price? Our place faces north.
I'd imagine that if we pay 1495 a month, the mortgage is somewhere around 1k or less. Anyone know the profit for realty companies on rentals?
If the house was new 3 years ago and the owner bought it then, the price was probably very cheap back then.
Aloha_Shooter
01-04-2017, 12:59
Does the house facing north, south, east or west affect price? Our place faces north.
I'd imagine that if we pay 1495 a month, the mortgage is somewhere around 1k or less. Anyone know the profit for realty companies on rentals?
I've rented out most of my places before I sold them as I was PCSing. The standard property management fee was 10% of the gross rent although I've gotten as low as 7%. Of course, the realty could make more if they buy the property themselves specifically as rentals but they also have to put a lot more money down on a business loan and that ties up capital. I put over 20% down so I could get the best rates when I bought it 12 year ago; I think PITI (Principal, Interest, Taxes, Insurance) for my house are just under $1400 now. Taxes and Insurance have risen by $100 or so in the past 10 years.
If the house was new 3 years ago and the owner bought it then, the price was probably very cheap back then.
I don't think anything in this neighborhood sold below 200k, but I could be wrong.
I've rented out most of my places before I sold them as I was PCSing. The standard property management fee was 10% of the gross rent although I've gotten as low as 7%. Of course, the realty could make more if they buy the property themselves specifically as rentals but they also have to put a lot more money down on a business loan and that ties up capital. I put over 20% down so I could get the best rates when I bought it 12 year ago; I think PITI (Principal, Interest, Taxes, Insurance) for my house are just under $1400 now. Taxes and Insurance have risen by $100 or so in the past 10 years.
So they make the money on quantity compounding otherwise low per-property profit?
Firehaus
01-04-2017, 13:30
Management can cost 3%-10% of gross property income depending on size of rental. Late fees, notice fees, laundry income, etc gets calculated in with the rents.
The Springs is considerably lower than Denver metro rent wise. Denver rent should be going to around 4-6% annual increase soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
House across the street is for sale at 240k, fairly large back yard. Google mortgage calc says 1135/mo for that.
That is probably low by 100/mo
Aloha_Shooter
01-04-2017, 18:26
House across the street is for sale at 240k, fairly large back yard. Google mortgage calc says 1135/mo for that.
That's probably just the principal and interest. The owner is also going to have to pay taxes and insurance on the property. That's going to be at least $100/mo (in line with what Wulf202 said), probably quite a bit more.
So they make the money on quantity compounding otherwise low per-property profit?
Property management is a low-profit per hour activity for realtors. I found a lot of realtors don't even offer it as a service, others will take it on in order to generate customer leads. The best property manager I ever had did it as his main business and had huge volume. He had all the steps streamlined and had enough pull with repairmen (due to volume) that he could get stuff done fast and cheap (and right). He also kept a realtor license so he could offer to work deals when the renter decided they liked it so much they wanted to buy the property. The worst property manager I had was a full-time realtor who did property management for some steady cash flow. I would have fired her if it wouldn't have been a major pain in the ass to find a replacement from Korea.
You're crazy or getting side benefits if you're paying over 10% for property management. Assuming the owners of your property are paying 10%, they're pocketing $1345/mo before expenses. That $1345 has to cover the mortgage (taxes & insurance as well as principal and interest), repairs, regular maintenance, etc. I don't know where you're living but assuming the properties in your area are going for over $200K (true of almost anything available in the Springs now), I would bet the owners are making at best $100/mo and more than likely losing $50-100/mo in cash flow. The good news for them is that the tax write-off makes even a $100/mo loss palatable in the long run.
There are actual real estate professionals in the forum (or closer to it than me) and I got out of all my rental properties before the crash (because I saw it coming) so take anything I say with a 5 lb bag of salt ...
Firehaus
01-04-2017, 19:33
I'm not a fan of single family rentals, but I've had good luck with multifamily.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's probably just the principal and interest. The owner is also going to have to pay taxes and insurance on the property. That's going to be at least $100/mo (in line with what Wulf202 said), probably quite a bit more.
Property management is a low-profit per hour activity for realtors. I found a lot of realtors don't even offer it as a service, others will take it on in order to generate customer leads. The best property manager I ever had did it as his main business and had huge volume. He had all the steps streamlined and had enough pull with repairmen (due to volume) that he could get stuff done fast and cheap (and right). He also kept a realtor license so he could offer to work deals when the renter decided they liked it so much they wanted to buy the property. The worst property manager I had was a full-time realtor who did property management for some steady cash flow. I would have fired her if it wouldn't have been a major pain in the ass to find a replacement from Korea.
You're crazy or getting side benefits if you're paying over 10% for property management. Assuming the owners of your property are paying 10%, they're pocketing $1345/mo before expenses. That $1345 has to cover the mortgage (taxes & insurance as well as principal and interest), repairs, regular maintenance, etc. I don't know where you're living but assuming the properties in your area are going for over $200K (true of almost anything available in the Springs now), I would bet the owners are making at best $100/mo and more than likely losing $50-100/mo in cash flow. The good news for them is that the tax write-off makes even a $100/mo loss palatable in the long run.
There are actual real estate professionals in the forum (or closer to it than me) and I got out of all my rental properties before the crash (because I saw it coming) so take anything I say with a 5 lb bag of salt ...
I'm actually thinking about trying to buy this place so maybe if it sucks that bad to be an owner who rents it out, I could. If we upgrade, I'd sell or rent to a family we know.
I always assumed owners made more money than that.
Aloha is running the numbers as a home buyer. For rentals you need 20% down so that'd lower the payment plus they obviously owned it before cav rented it. So at a minimum they'd have paid 10% less last year. With rough math that puts their mortgage at 950 max. Clearing a min of 400 a month with a max of 43k into it. Better than 10% return on their cash plus the free equity 2x
I have both single family and multi along with a day job in real estate. I prefer multi family for long term rentals and single family for flip or medium hold. I may start doing new builds this or next year.
Firehaus
01-04-2017, 20:23
tals and single family for flip or medium hold. I may start doing new builds this or next year.
Hopefully new single family and not new build multifamily. ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hopefully new single family and not new build multifamily. ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eventually I'll build myself some 2-4 plex properties for retirement accounts. At this point I'm trying to figure out how much past the age of 40 I want to work.
Aloha is running the numbers as a home buyer. For rentals you need 20% down so that'd lower the payment plus they obviously owned it before cav rented it. So at a minimum they'd have paid 10% less last year. With rough math that puts their mortgage at 950 max. Clearing a min of 400 a month with a max of 43k into it. Better than 10% return on their cash plus the free equity 2x
I have both single family and multi along with a day job in real estate. I prefer multi family for long term rentals and single family for flip or medium hold. I may start doing new builds this or next year.
Best I can tell, they bought it new and rented it to some soldier and his wife right away. He left and they rented it to another family. They left and we got into it. 2nd family had no pets and the 1st family did based on the original pics, which is probably why the upstairs non-main bedroom closets smelled like cat piss and there was a vehement, emphatic, no tolerance "no pets" policy. House was first sold in 2013.
If they haven't re financed and paid a prox 150 for it in 2013. Their payment is about 700. Which is what investors who want the security of being paid off would do. If they dump all the profits on the mortgage it should be paid off in the next year or two.
More likely the refinanced somewhere in the past two years and got their original cash down (30k) back out to invest elsewhere.
The purchase price is usually available if you look around and are curious. If you find a purchase price that is after the build that's likely the appraised refinance value. This has no bearing on what it's worth really.
HoneyBadger
01-05-2017, 10:25
I'll chime in here because I'm renting out a house I own in COS. (technically, the bank owns the house in my name... but we all know how that works)
The property is in the Wolf Ranch neighborhood, by Research and Powers. Really nice area: lots of parks, top schools, good access to just about everything, reasonable HOA.
We bought it in 2013 for $340k with plans to stay in it for at least 6 years before moving. Of course, the Air Force crapped all over that plan and moved us after less than 2 years.
I spent 4 months screening prospective renters very carefully to find someone who would care for my property as well as I would. (No property manager is going to care that much... they just want someone in the property so they get paid) We found a family that seems pretty normal and passed all the tests (criminal checks, financial/credit checks, etc.) and we agreed to a 3 year rental contract.
When all is said and done, the rent check is less than $50 more than the mortgage payment (PITI). It's not currently a source of income for us, but the way I see it, someone else is slowly paying for an asset that we will own when they leave. The good news is that property values have gone up a good bit since we bought and the renters are taking good care of things while paying the mortgage. At the end of the lease, they will have paid more than $65k toward principle and interest. I'm really hoping they are interested in extending the contract. At this rate, we could have the house paid off in 15 years or less as we continue to dump a few hundred extra a month toward principle.
Disclaimer: This is not an ideal situation and there is considerable risk involved. I would not recommend that anyone buys a house and then moves out of state while playing long-distance landlord.
How are they paying over 65k in principle alone in only three years with the rent being only $50 more than the mortgage? I pay an extra 50% of my total mortgage each month and am only paying the principle down about $7,200 each year. I have a 30 year loan, is yours a 15 year?
Never mind, I've got it figured out. Math...
HoneyBadger
01-05-2017, 13:06
How are they paying over 65k in principle alone in only three years with the rent being only $50 more than the mortgage? I pay an extra 50% of my total mortgage each month and am only paying the principle down about $7,200 each year. I have a 30 year loan, is yours a 15 year?
At the end of the lease, they will have paid more than $65k toward principle and interest.
Never mind, I've got it figured out. Math...
Reading skillz, not maths. :)
Ugh...this is why I have a job where I write with chalk everyday, that isn't a teacher.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.